Russia vs. Ukraine Part 2

[BugI02]

Why is it only Europe's problem? (I agree that they should be participating, and they are.)
[Because it directly affects their security in many ways, some of them subtle]
When does it become USA's problem?
[Never]
Honestly, the "it's Europe's problem" sounds like the late 1930's isolationist rhetoric. That turned out well.

Medlling in the affairs of rising powers, specifically seeking to deny the empire of Japan access to needed resources and thus control their actions, is what caused the sneak attack on Pearl and in effect caused The Two. Recall that Germany declared war on us 4 days after Pearl, we didn't declare war on them

We were quite strongly isolationist as a people, but isolationist beliefs didn't cause The Two. It took a cowardly sneak attack on one of our primary naval bases to change that, done by a country that calculated we would not allow them to achieve the empire they desired and that the drastic weakening of our sea power would allow Imperial Japan to take what they wanted and the time to consolidate it

 

[Hawkeye]

Medlling in the affairs of rising powers, specifically seeking to deny the empire of Japan access to needed resources and thus control their actions, is what caused the sneak attack on Pearl and in effect caused The Two. Recall that Germany declared war on us 4 days after Pearl, we didn't declare war on them

We were quite strongly isolationist as a people, but isolationist beliefs didn't cause The Two. It took a cowardly sneak attack on one of our primary naval bases to change that, done by a country that calculated we would not allow them to achieve the empire they desired and that the drastic weakening of our sea power would allow Imperial Japan to take what they wanted and the time to consolidate it

And then we followe da Europe first strategy as Germany was clearly the bigger threat to Western Civilization.

 

[smokingman]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/allies-not-running-weapons-no-134812428.html

Ukraine knows the West can give more aid and weapons to Kyiv because “warehouses in Western countries are not completely empty”, the country’s chief spymaster has said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mexican-president-defends-inclusion-russian-163121162.html

 

[91FXRS]

I'll just leave this...

 

[smokingman]

Ukraine's Trans 'Spokesperson' Lashes Out at J.D. Vance for Spreading 'Gender Chaos'

Sarah Ashton-Cirillo, a transgender "spokesperson" of the Ukrainian military, criticised Senator J.D. Vance for focusing on "gender chaos" while refusing to deny links to the U.S. government.

www.breitbart.com

Hillary Clinton Teams Up with Zelenskyy's Wife to Create ‘Ukraine Action Network’

The collaboration between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Ukraine's first lady, Olena Zelenska, will be unveiled Tuesday.

www.westernjournal.com

The Clinton Global Initiative reconvened Monday in New York after a six-year hiatus, with a variety of CEOs, government officials and Hollywood figures focused on global issues such as climate change and the war in Ukraine.


The event’s theme this year is “Keep Going”

The Associated Press reported Monday that a key priority this year is the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, a collaboration between Hillary Clinton and Ukraine’s first lady, Olena Zelenska.

In addition to the focus on Ukraine this year, Hillary Clinton proclaimed that “gender equality” is now the fourth pillar of the Clinton Global Initiative.

For those still supporting Ukraine and wanting to send them more of well anything....might want to scan the room and see who you are standing with,and for what.

Alex Soros Huddles with ‘Great Leader’ Newsom at Clinton Global Initiative

Alex Soros met with California Gov. Gavin Newsom, praising him as a “great leader” at the start of the annual Clinton Global Initiative.

www.breitbart.com

 

[BugI02]

And then we followe da Europe first strategy as Germany was clearly the bigger threat to Western Civilization.

Yeah, that Doolittle raid on Germany only four months after Pearl sure was something

 

[erasure]

For those still supporting Ukraine and wanting to send them more of well anything....might want to scan the room and see who you are standing with,and for what.

Imagine being some poor bastard that just enlisted. Now you're about to get deployed to Ukraine, go fight for the Gay Empire.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Just when I think things can’t get any weirder…

With the Clintons involved there is money to be made. Sounds like they rebranded the money making machine.

One helluva coincidence with the transgender spokes (not sure what) and Zelenskyy’s ol’ lady at the new rebranded Clinton Initiative meeting.

 

[Shadow01]

Carter micromanaged it from the White House.

Well he was a submarine expert. No offense to those that bravely serve below the waves…

 

[Shadow01]

Why is it only Europe's problem? (I agree that they should be participating, and they are.)

When does it become USA's problem?

Honestly, the "it's Europe's problem" sounds like the late 1930's isolationist rhetoric. That turned out well.

You enter a war to win or you don’t enter at all. We have weapons that we refuse to use to end this. unless we are going to run Russia out of money, we need to stop sending money.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Ukraine's Trans 'Spokesperson' Lashes Out at J.D. Vance for Spreading 'Gender Chaos'

Sarah Ashton-Cirillo, a transgender "spokesperson" of the Ukrainian military, criticised Senator J.D. Vance for focusing on "gender chaos" while refusing to deny links to the U.S. government.

www.breitbart.com

Hillary Clinton Teams Up with Zelenskyy's Wife to Create ‘Ukraine Action Network’

The collaboration between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Ukraine's first lady, Olena Zelenska, will be unveiled Tuesday.

www.westernjournal.com

The Clinton Global Initiative reconvened Monday in New York after a six-year hiatus, with a variety of CEOs, government officials and Hollywood figures focused on global issues such as climate change and the war in Ukraine.


The event’s theme this year is “Keep Going”

The Associated Press reported Monday that a key priority this year is the launch of the CGI Ukraine Action Network, a collaboration between Hillary Clinton and Ukraine’s first lady, Olena Zelenska.

In addition to the focus on Ukraine this year, Hillary Clinton proclaimed that “gender equality” is now the fourth pillar of the Clinton Global Initiative.

For those still supporting Ukraine and wanting to send them more of well anything....might want to scan the room and see who you are standing with,and for what.

Alex Soros Huddles with ‘Great Leader’ Newsom at Clinton Global Initiative

Alex Soros met with California Gov. Gavin Newsom, praising him as a “great leader” at the start of the annual Clinton Global Initiative.

www.breitbart.com

Excuse me, what the heck?

Are you seriously peddling the idea that because there's gay and "transgender" people in Ukraine they somehow deserve to be invaded and taken over by a foreign power?

I've had some serious reservations about our support for Ukraine in the past, but with every post you make you're driving me more and more to believe that @Route45 and @Hawkeye are right after all.

How can you honestly believe that sinful/deviant sexual behavior on the part of political leaders equates to an entire populace deserving to be subjected to war, invasion, and oppression by a communist regime seeking to rebuild a totalitarian empire?

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first, thinking that perhaps you were just wanting to point out that we need to watch out lest funds dedicated to Ukraine be siphoned off to promote woke sexual deviance-promoting nonsense. But you seem to pretty clearly express that you don't want to either support Ukraine in any way, or "send them more of well anything." What does "anything" include? Humanitarian relief? Food? Medical supplies? According to my dictionary, those all fall under "anything."

May I ask what other sins you believe should condemn an entire country's population to be abandoned to the whims of an invading dictator?

 

[smokingman]

Excuse me, what the heck?

Are you seriously peddling the idea that because there's gay and "transgender" people in Ukraine they somehow deserve to be invaded and taken over by a foreign power?

I've had some serious reservations about our support for Ukraine in the past, but with every post you make you're driving me more and more to believe that @Route45 and @Hawkeye are right after all.

How can you honestly believe that sinful/deviant sexual behavior on the part of political leaders equates to an entire populace deserving to be subjected to war, invasion, and oppression by a communist regime seeking to rebuild a totalitarian empire?

I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt at first, thinking that perhaps you were just wanting to point out that we need to watch out lest funds dedicated to Ukraine be siphoned off to promote woke sexual deviance-promoting nonsense. But you seem to pretty clearly express that you don't want to either support Ukraine in any way, or "send them more of well anything." What does "anything" include? Humanitarian relief? Food? Medical supplies? According to my dictionary, those all fall under "anything."

May I ask what other sins you believe should condemn an entire country's population to be abandoned to the whims of an invading dictator?

Maybe we can send them some,perhaps the money we make selling Syrian oil and grain? Perhaps the sale of Libyan oil? We after all control both. Why US tax payer funds?

Why is the US trying to manage Libyan oil revenues?

Differences between warring Libyan factions have raised concerns about how the North African country’s vital oil income is used.

www.trtworld.com

Delta Crescent Energy LLC is the US company created to manage and sell Syrian oil.

US forces steal 92 tankers of oil, wheat from Syria to Iraq - ET EnergyWorld

The oil tankers and wheat trucks were sent to Iraq on Monday through illegal border crossings set up by the US-led Syrian Democratic Forces, Xinhua news agency reported.

energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com

Would that make us hypocrites?

Side note. I do not care if they are gay(the spokesperson is American,not even Ukrainian),what I do care about like JD vance pointed out is that person saying anyone one who does not support the war will be hunted down and killed,anywhere in the world(by Ukraine).

Did you read the articles? Kind of sounds like you glanced at the titles and somehow came to the conclusion it was about gay or gender(as the spokes person tried to make is sound like after saying Ukraine would kill anyone not in support of them).It is not.

I do have a problem with Soro's and the Clinton's making money off of it though.

 

[BugI02]

How can you honestly believe that sinful/deviant sexual behavior on the part of political leaders equates to an entire populace deserving to be subjected to war, invasion, and oppression by a communist regime seeking to rebuild a totalitarian empire?

Does it not suggest that they are either unserious or indeed pandering to the transgender obsessions of the west? Does a transgender spokesman make them somehow more formidable militarily?

Do you think all of the focus on pride and gender transition makes our potential opponents take our military more seriously?

Do you think a country 'fighting for its very existence' has the time, resources and bandwidth to dabble in this bull****?

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Maybe we can send them some,perhaps the money we make selling Syrian oil and grain? Perhaps the sale of Libyan oil? We after all control both. Why US tax payer funds?

Why is the US trying to manage Libyan oil revenues?

Differences between warring Libyan factions have raised concerns about how the North African country’s vital oil income is used.

www.trtworld.com

Delta Crescent Energy LLC is the US company created to manage and sell Syrian oil.

US forces steal 92 tankers of oil, wheat from Syria to Iraq - ET EnergyWorld

The oil tankers and wheat trucks were sent to Iraq on Monday through illegal border crossings set up by the US-led Syrian Democratic Forces, Xinhua news agency reported.

energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com

Would that make us hypocrites?

What?

You're getting more bizarre with each post. What does the USA allegedly stealing oil from smaller countries have to do with any of what we were just discussing?

 

[smokingman]

What?

You're getting more bizarre with each post. What does the USA allegedly stealing oil from smaller countries have to do with any of what we were just discussing?

Just saying why not use funds from those sales instead of from the US taxpayer.
It is almost exactly what we have spent thus far in sales,107 billion(Syrian oil alone).

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Does it not suggest that they are either unserious or indeed pandering to the transgender obsessions of the west? Does a transgender spokesman make them somehow more formidable militarily?

Do you think all of the focus on pride and gender transition makes our potential opponents take our military more seriously?

Do you think a country 'fighting for its very existence' has the time, resources and bandwidth to dabble in this bull****?

"Do you think a country 'fighting for its very existence' has the time, resources and bandwidth to dabble in this ********?"

"pandering to the transgender obsessions of the west"

I think you just answered you own question. They're trying to pander to the woke leaders of western powers in the hopes of getting more aid. Is it wrong? Absolutely. But saying that the entire country deserves to be abandoned to hostile invasion because of it is quite a stretch.

Again, in case I haven't made it abundantly clear yet, I completely agree that all the gay/transgender nonsense going on with Ukraine's political leaders is absolutely wrong and abhorrent, and I don't disagree with calling them out for it. What I am disagreeing with is the people who seem to think that it makes the entire country and it's population not worth supporting.

The thing I don't understand is how it has to be all or nothing. Why is it so hard to just say that I both:

1) Support the ordinary, everyday Ukrainian people, their right to be independent as citizens of a free country, and their right to not be invaded, oppressed, and killed by a foreign power, while also recognizing that the USA has a significant strategic interest in stopping the rebuilding a communist, totalitarian empire.

AND

2) Recognize that we need to seriously scrutinize the support being sent to Ukraine, making sure that it is not being siphoned off for woke gender nonsense or lining the pockets of corrupt politicians, and also that there needs to be accountability for the west's shady meddlings in Ukraine's government, recognition of our own country's wrongdoings that helped lead to this entire conflict, and real changes to make sure we don't just repeat the same thing again after the war is over.

There's nothing contradictory about holding both of these positions at once, and yet some people in this thread seem to think that you can't possibly do so.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Just saying why not use funds from those sales instead of from the US taxpayer.
It is almost exactly what we have spent thus far in sales,107 billion(Syrian oil alone).

So, what you're saying so far is that Ukraine is evil because their political leaders are gay, so they really deserve to be invaded by Russia, and we shouldn't support them, unless we use money we illicitly gained by selling goods stolen from less powerful countries, then it's totally fine to support them?

How does that make any sense?

 

[smokingman]

"Do you think a country 'fighting for its very existence' has the time, resources and bandwidth to dabble in this ********?"

"pandering to the transgender obsessions of the west"

I think you just answered you own question. They're trying to pander to the woke leaders of western powers in the hopes of getting more aid. Is it wrong? Absolutely. But saying that the entire country deserves to be abandoned to hostile invasion because of it is quite a stretch.

Again, in case I haven't made it abundantly clear yet, I completely agree that all the gay/transgender nonsense going on with Ukraine's political leaders is absolutely wrong and abhorrent, and I don't disagree with calling them out for it. What I am disagreeing with is the people who seem to think that it makes the entire country and it's population not worth supporting.

The thing I don't understand is how it has to be all or nothing. Why is it so hard to just say that I both:

1) Support the ordinary, everyday Ukrainian people, their right to be independent as citizens of a free country, and their right to not be invaded, oppressed, and killed by a foreign power, while also recognizing that the USA has a significant strategic interest in stopping the rebuilding a communist, totalitarian empire.

AND

2) Recognize that we need to seriously scrutinize the support being sent to Ukraine, making sure that it is not being siphoned off for woke gender nonsense or lining the pockets of corrupt politicians, and also that there needs to be accountability for the west's shady meddlings in Ukraine's government, recognition of our own country's wrongdoings that helped lead to this entire conflict, and real changes to make sure we don't just repeat the same thing again after the war is over.

There's nothing contradictory about holding both of these positions at once, and yet some people in this thread seem to think that you can't possibly do so.

I have never tried to hide that I am for America first.
I still see zero reason to be involved in this or any of the multiple current conflicts world wide.

Our involvement in Ukraine has damaged the US and our currency. Destroyed most of the industrial capacity of the EU. Lead to the largest infrastructure attack since ww2(nord2).

At a time 100k American's die every year of overdoses and we have a wide open border.

Maybe if we had our own house in order I would be more supportive.

We have other problems as well...

‘Marxist Lesbian’ Head of American Library Association Says Public Education and Libraries Need to Be ‘Sites of Socialist Organizing’ › American Greatness

The Communist head of the American Library Association (ALA) said that public schools and libraries need to be "sites of socialist organizing" at the Socialism 2023 conference in Chicago over the…

amgreatness.com

"The Communist head of the American Library Association (ALA) said that public schools and libraries need to be “sites of socialist organizing” at the Socialism 2023 conference in Chicago over the weekend."

 

[smokingman]

So, what you're saying so far is that Ukraine is evil because their political leaders are gay, so they really deserve to be invaded by Russia, and we shouldn't support them, unless we use money we illicitly gained by selling goods stolen from less powerful countries, then it's totally fine to support them?

How does that make any sense?

From me.

"Side note. I do not care if they are gay(the spokesperson is American,not even Ukrainian),what I do care about like JD vance pointed out is that person saying anyone one who does not support the war will be hunted down and killed,anywhere in the world(by Ukraine).
Did you read the articles? Kind of sounds like you glanced at the titles and somehow came to the conclusion it was about gay or gender(as the spokes person tried to make is sound like after saying Ukraine would kill anyone not in support of them).It is not.
I do have a problem with Soro's and the Clinton's making money off of it though."

Where on earth are you getting **** about it being because anyone is gay? That has NOTHING to do with it.

I am saying better to use our illicit gains than issuing new debt from US taxpayers. If we are playing empire may as well use those gains.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

From me.

"Side note. I do not care if they are gay(the spokesperson is American,not even Ukrainian),what I do care about like JD vance pointed out is that person saying anyone one who does not support the war will be hunted down and killed,anywhere in the world(by Ukraine).
Did you read the articles? Kind of sounds like you glanced at the titles and somehow came to the conclusion it was about gay or gender(as the spokes person tried to make is sound like after saying Ukraine would kill anyone not in support of them).It is not.
I do have a problem with Soro's and the Clinton's making money off of it though."

Where on earth are you getting **** about it being because anyone is gay? That has NOTHING to do with it.

I am saying better to use our illicit gains than issuing new debt from US taxpayers. If we are playing empire may as well use those gains.

I'm sorry. I replied before you had made the edit with the additional "side note"; otherwise that would have clarified things to me. I did, indeed, misread your initial post that I responded to, and also in going back I realized that I had confused a couple posts made by other members and in my memory attributed them as things that you had said.

I see now that you were not actually trying to say what I accused you of, and I apologize.