RSOs view of the world.. Training or the lack of it :)

[NHT3]

Overheard gem.. "I need to get a reloading station, house first and then a reloading station". Interesting priorities, reloading "station" is second only to a house?
Part of a quote from a facebook posting about training

"For some people its just not really doable for reasons like location to training centers. (Though not impossible) that being said you will always have those people that just think its cool and like to waste money."
I've never heard the argument that people that train just "think it's cool and like to waste money".
Maybe one of the Sages here on INGO can explain that thought process to me because I'm at a loss.

​

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

​

 

[wtburnette]

Overheard gem.. "I need to get a reloading station, house first and then a reloading station". Interesting priorities, reloading "station" is second only to a house?
Part of a quote from a facebook posting about training

"For some people its just not really doable for reasons like location to training centers. (Though not impossible) that being said you will always have those people that just think its cool and like to waste money."
I've never heard the argument that people that train just "think it's cool and like to waste money".
Maybe one of the Sages here on INGO can explain that thought process to me because I'm at a loss.

​

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

​

But, but, a gun is a magical talisman that prevents the bearer from being hurt. Why in the world would you waste time and money training?



At least that's the argument I expect based on what I've come to understand of a lot of gun owners.

 

[churchmouse]

But, but, a gun is a magical talisman that prevents the bearer from being hurt. Why in the world would you waste time and money training?



At least that's the argument I expect based on what I've come to understand of a lot of gun owners.

And there you have it. Time/money.

 

[rhino]

Overheard gem.. "I need to get a reloading station, house first and then a reloading station". Interesting priorities, reloading "station" is second only to a house?
Part of a quote from a facebook posting about training

"For some people its just not really doable for reasons like location to training centers. (Though not impossible) that being said you will always have those people that just think its cool and like to waste money."
I've never heard the argument that people that train just "think it's cool and like to waste money".
Maybe one of the Sages here on INGO can explain that thought process to me because I'm at a loss.

​

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

​

That's one of things that continues to baffle me. I understand not wanting to drive 5 hours each way or more, but some people (many of whom are in dire need of professional instruction) refuse based on driving an hour or even half an hour. Some of those same people have a morning commute that is close to that long, yet making a similar drive to attend a class is akin to an expedition to explore the antarctic. Those same people won't hesitate to drive several hours to attend a concert or sporting event. If you require that the teacher comes to your living room and offer the class while you're on your couch, I suspect the interest in training is not significant. People who really want to train aren't deterred by driving an hour or two. People who refuse training (who know they need it) because of an hour or two of driving are making excuses because they don't really want to do it.

 

[Trapper Jim]

That's one of things that continues to baffle me. I understand not wanting to drive 5 hours each way or more, but some people (many of whom are in dire need of professional instruction) refuse based on driving an hour or even half an hour. Some of those same people have a morning commute that is close to that long, yet making a similar drive to attend a class is akin to an expedition to explore the antarctic. Those same people won't hesitate to drive several hours to attend a concert or sporting event. If you require that the teacher comes to your living room and offer the class while you're on your couch, I suspect the interest in training is not significant. People who really want to train aren't deterred by driving an hour or two. People who refuse training (who know they need it) because of an hour or two of driving are making excuses because they don't really want to do it.

So correct! Most Casual Gun Owners don’t wanna put in the work required needed. Some think they can Gadget themselves to quality marksmanship. Training? We don’t need no stinking training.

 

[NHT3]

That's one of things that continues to baffle me. I understand not wanting to drive 5 hours each way or more, but some people (many of whom are in dire need of professional instruction) refuse based on driving an hour or even half an hour. Some of those same people have a morning commute that is close to that long, yet making a similar drive to attend a class is akin to an expedition to explore the antarctic. Those same people won't hesitate to drive several hours to attend a concert or sporting event. If you require that the teacher comes to your living room and offer the class while you're on your couch, I suspect the interest in training is not significant. People who really want to train aren't deterred by driving an hour or two. People who refuse training (who know they need it) because of an hour or two of driving are making excuses because they don't really want to do it.

It's worse than you portray it. I've asked people on the range with a bloody thumb if they would like me to show them how to avoid bloodshed and been flatly refused. One response was a very indignant "I KNOW WHAT I DID WRONG". Too many people can't bring themselves to say those three little words "I don't know". It's disturbing but seems to be the world we now live in. I still don't understand disparaging someone that trains as somehow wasting time and or money?


[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]

 

[ECS686]

That's one of things that continues to baffle me. I understand not wanting to drive 5 hours each way or more, but some people (many of whom are in dire need of professional instruction) refuse based on driving an hour or even half an hour. Some of those same people have a morning commute that is close to that long, yet making a similar drive to attend a class is akin to an expedition to explore the antarctic. Those same people won't hesitate to drive several hours to attend a concert or sporting event. If you require that the teacher comes to your living room and offer the class while you're on your couch, I suspect the interest in training is not significant. People who really want to train aren't deterred by driving an hour or two. People who refuse training (who know they need it) because of an hour or two of driving are making excuses because they don't really want to do it.

As Clint Smith says, "People spend money on what they want to not what they need to"

I agree Rhino, but I'll go one step further and this applies to a lit of people across the board. However those of us that run agency training programs see it in their performance. People get trained up and then fail to practice (some might call it training but whatever). To build or or stay proficient on the skill.

I don't know how many of my borderline shooters that have to reshoot every year refuse to, OR make excuses as to why they haven't went to the range since the last qualification. It's not going to Europe people its 20 dollars worth of ammo a month even.

 

[Coach]

This past weekend I put on a free class. One question from a student asked what a proper grip should be. I demonstrated and explained it. One client nearly cut his thumb off with a bad grip.

Pay attention to the training.

 

[ECS686]

This past weekend I put on a free class. One question from a student asked what a proper grip should be. I demonstrated and explained it. One client nearly cut his thumb off with a bad grip.

Pay attention to the training.

We call that "railroad tracks" have a few of our resident knuckleheads do that during qualifications. Like HTH does this happen, never had that issue on military ranges and we had knuckleheads there too.

 

[Trapper Jim]

We call that "railroad tracks" have a few of our resident knuckleheads do that during qualifications. Like HTH does this happen, never had that issue on military ranges and we had knuckleheads there too.

The very shape of a Handgun screams to the noob to hold it that way and in handling it the design of the trigger guard invites fingers. Always has, always will. Our job is never done. Plus they watch too many movies.

 

[NHT3]

Overheard today.. "look at that shot, and I was aiming for that too"... Guy with a rental SCAR could not get it to run because range counter had given him AK ammo. Rather than give him the right ammo he was given an AK to match the ammo. Blind leading the blind is everywhere.

 

[churchmouse]

Overheard today.. "look at that shot, and I was aiming for that too"... Guy with a rental SCAR could not get it to run because range counter had given him AK ammo. Rather than give him the right ammo he was given an AK to match the ammo. Blind leading the blind is everywhere.

OK that's just freaking nuts.

 

[KellyinAvon]

OK that's just freaking nuts.

Yes, it makes me want to grab someone by the shirt and shake them, I don't want to do that very often. The caliber is on the weapon and on the box of ammo. If they don't match there is a problem.

 

[ECS686]

Overheard today.. "look at that shot, and I was aiming for that too"... Guy with a rental SCAR could not get it to run because range counter had given him AK ammo. Rather than give him the right ammo he was given an AK to match the ammo. Blind leading the blind is everywhere.

Other than a VERY new person that was thrown to the wolves with no mentoring This is why we wonder who dresses some people and how they get shoes tied in the morning

 

[NHT3]

Just some eye candy from my last session.

As noted 7 yard target

Grip and following target are same guy and he put 250 rounds down range @ 5 yards

With arms extended this target was less than three feet from the muzzle

 

[JollyMon]

I dont see anything wrong. These people are practicing. Not everyone can be a navy seal out of the womb....

Especially with the last picture. Its a dot torture target designed to be shot at 5 yards. Maybe he had a bad experience the previous time he shot it and brought it back to three. Work at something till you get it right, then increase the range / speed.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I dont see anything wrong. These people are practicing. Not everyone can be a navy seal out of the womb....

Especially with the last picture. Its a dot torture target designed to be shot at 5 yards. Maybe he had a bad experience the previous time he shot it and brought it back to three. Work at something till you get it right, then increase the range / speed.

There is a huge curve between a Seal and knowing how to even hold a pistol. I do agree all of us including the OP had to start somewhere. The starting is the innocents but it’s the traveled journey from there that’s important. The beginner has so much more dignity at this moment (for he knows not) than the one who thinks he’s better. That said no worries though, they probably have already had the class on what to do if you are attacked by thugs in a phone booth.

 

[MCgrease08]

There is a huge curve between a Seal and knowing how to even hold a pistol. I do agree all of us including the OP had to start somewhere. The starting is the innocents but it’s the traveled journey from there that’s important. The beginner has so much more dignity at this moment (for he knows not) than the one who thinks he’s better. That said no worries though, they probably have already had the class on what to do if you are attacked by thugs in a phone booth.

Y'all are giving Seals too much credit.

I took a Revere's Riders basic pistol class a few years ago and there was a Seal in the class. I shot better then him and I'm on the line between suck and average.

He did have a cool bungee lanyard on his Sig though.

 

[Karl-just-Karl]

Overheard today.. "look at that shot, and I was aiming for that too"... Guy with a rental SCAR could not get it to run because range counter had given him AK ammo. Rather than give him the right ammo he was given an AK to match the ammo. Blind leading the blind is everywhere.

Opened boxes of ammo are probably not returnable. That's been my experience of a common shop policy. Yeah, not very funny, but might be a reasonable explanation...even if the shop was the one who sold him the wrong ammo in the first place.

 

[NHT3]

I dont see anything wrong. These people are practicing. Not everyone can be a navy seal out of the womb....

Especially with the last picture. Its a dot torture target designed to be shot at 5 yards. Maybe he had a bad experience the previous time he shot it and brought it back to three. Work at something till you get it right, then increase the range / speed.

Practicing bad habits serves no purpose. The dot torture was at 2 feet not 3 yards and it's not unusual to see a guy shooting an AR with a scope at 5 yards. Both were just making noise and I see it all too often. They believe if they just shoot enough eventually they will improve.

Opened boxes of ammo are probably not returnable. That's been my experience of a common shop policy. Yeah, not very funny, but might be a reasonable explanation...even if the shop was the one who sold him the wrong ammo in the first place.

Open ammo is not returnable but it was a rental gun and a range counter mistake so in that case the mistake is supposed to be corrected. I don't know what happened that rifle was exchanged rather than the ammo.