RSOs view of the world.. Training or the lack of it :)

[JollyMon]

so is a 5 yard shot worth tying up both hands and arms and limited partial movement

Yes. As long as you know the proper fundamentals

 

[MCgrease08]

so is a 5 yard shot worth tying up both hands and arms and limited partial movement when a handgun might be a better choice and not create as large of exposed weak points on your person or limit your agility? Just askin?

Basically you're asking, if you have to shoot someone would you rather do it with a rifle instead of a handgun?

Hell yes. At least for me.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Yes. As long as you know the proper fundamentals

Perhaps a Bazooka at 2 feet might help. I think there is a simulator for that for you yunguns.

 

[dudley0]

Perhaps a Bazooka at 2 feet might help. I think there is a simulator for that for you yunguns.

I don't guess I understand the reasoning behind your constant bickering over people using a more powerful weapon to stop an attack. I am no operator, trainer or even a good shooter in my mind but I can not see people in the know saying something like use a handgun instead. Proof has been played out, again and again. Perfect shots aside.... if you hit a bad guy in the chest with a rifle round you are doing much more damage than with a pistol round.

 

[churchmouse]

Some of the points we contest are a push.

The manner we dispute them is as well.

We all have strong opinions as to how best defend our castles.

Some are questionable. Some are on point.

I have been known to investigate noises in the night with a softball bat. I still have that bat and will pick it up. And I am a fair hand with it I believe.
That said we use what we have. That was a big part of the training I have received through life. Use what is available and make it count.

In truth I might prefer using the bat to its fullest extent. Far less paper work. My fire arms will remain at home. And the actual hands on beat down of someone breaching my space would be some serious stress management.

Agree or not JMHO

 

[Ndavid45]

so is a 5 yard shot worth tying up both hands and arms and limited partial movement when a handgun might be a better choice and not create as large of exposed weak points on your person or limit your agility? Just askin?

While it's not my case, they could possibly be in a place that they are more likely to encounter someone at greater distances and only want or have one 'bump in the night' gun.the example I'm thinking of is my time up in northern Michigan where it was more likely to deal with coyotes disturbing the chickens or horses than a home intruder. If we only had one firearm to choose up there it would have been a long gun. Now that I'm in Indianapolis, in an apartment with small kids, there is no way I would want to limit my movement with a long gun if I only had one option.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I don't guess I understand the reasoning behind your constant bickering over people using a more powerful weapon to stop an attack. I am no operator, trainer or even a good shooter in my mind but I can not see people in the know saying something like use a handgun instead. Proof has been played out, again and again. Perfect shots aside.... if you hit a bad guy in the chest with a rifle round you are doing much more damage than with a pistol round.

Thank you for your comment however I do not consider challenging the statements on this forum as bickering but I use them to be thought starters and it is the reaction of some that throws the first punch so to speak. People are quick to defend their way of thinking or products and tactics. If one does not agree, this is where we get into an ethnocentric behavior. This is human behavior 101. The rub for me comes when I can tell many times that the information is a theory or you tube video or just the product of brain washing by a magazine article or two. For instance, taken out of context, you think I hate long guns. Way Wrong. What we are talking about here is the choice to use a long gun in a real close quarter or H2H environment. You see, IMHO the lethal end of the rifle being two feet away from your vital area (think knife) leaves you exposed to a greater deal in H2H and other Defensive close quarters. The key word here is defensive. If you cannot avoid the fight then the opponent is usually in your lap. Not like on tv. If I am taking a hill or defending the fort on my perimeter then a rifle is my go to. We cover this in my training modules several times. I have many platforms that I use for defense but when it is up close and personal it will more than likely be a handgun that stops the fight. Two arms and hands, rifle stance and vulnerability in a tight hallway just don't work for me. But that's my opinion and like you, I am entitled to it. When I poke the skunk it is to bring out the responses that expose those who believe differently. However, I do not have the blind faith many have in this game and am always questioning the question. It's how we learn. Takes an open mind and a lot of time, money and courage to test the marketing of some one's perception. Training is good. Not training is Bad. The gunowner that thinks he does not need training is ugly.

Again, thank you for your response and take my invite to meet and discuss any of this you want.

 

[JollyMon]

What we are talking about here is the choice to use a long gun in a real close quarter or H2H environment. You see, IMHO the lethal end of the rifle being two feet away from your vital area (think knife) leaves you exposed to a greater deal in H2H and other Defensive close quarters. The key word here is defensive. If you cannot avoid the fight then the opponent is usually in your lap. Not like on tv. If I am taking a hill or defending the fort on my perimeter then a rifle is my go to. We cover this in my training modules several times. I have many platforms that I use for defense but when it is up close and personal it will more than likely be a handgun that stops the fight. Two arms and hands, rifle stance and vulnerability in a tight hallway just don't work for me.

Tell that too every swat or specialized team that uses rifles in their CQB work. Many times within feet on assailants. Im sure they are lining up for your training modules.

The rifle has many many advantages over a handgun for almost every circumstance, and if given time to retrieve, most would choose a rifle for work over a handgun.

 

[dudley0]

.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Tell that too every swat or specialized team that uses rifles in their CQB work. Many times within feet on assailants. Im sure they are lining up for your training modules.

The rifle has many many advantages over a handgun for almost every circumstance, and if given time to retrieve, most would choose a rifle for work over a handgun.

You should save your energy.


Also - rifle bullets will tend to penetrate more the farther they have to travel.

And .223 / 5.56 doesn't travel through walls nearly as much as .357 / 9mm / .40 / .45. Especially so if using 45-55gr bullets.

Every tool has it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

[NHT3]

Of course you can and will make your own determinations but this doesn't appear to be someone that has knowledge of anything other than making noise and this is typical of the targets I see. Obviously a left handed shooter and contrary to what you might be thinking it wasn't shot with birdshot.

 

[JollyMon]

People can make all the noise they want. Their money, Their Ammo.

 

[MCgrease08]

Of course you can and will make your own determinations but this doesn't appear to be someone that has knowledge of anything other than making noise and this is typical of the targets I see. Obviously a left handed shooter and contrary to what you might be thinking it wasn't shot with birdshot.

Wow. It looks like there was a firefight. I wonder what that guy was thinking as he walked away from the range. Did he feel like he left a better shooter than when he came in?

 

[churchmouse]

People can make all the noise they want. Their money, Their Ammo.

Truth. But what we are pointing out here is it serves no real purpose. Other than making noise.

You/me/most members shoot to improve our skill sets as you so often point out. The positives and negatives etc.

There are times that a mag dump just seems to be needed and yes I will put 30 out as fast as I can. But hardly ever 1st up and usually close a session this way just because.

Also this target verifies what I always say/see.....people are tight asses. Mainly.

JMHO.

 

[NHT3]

Truth. But what we are pointing out here is it serves no real purpose. Other than making noise.

You/me/most members shoot to improve our skill sets as you so often point out. The positives and negatives etc.

There are times that a mag dump just seems to be needed and yes I will put 30 out as fast as I can. But hardly ever 1st up and usually close a session this way just because.

Also this target verifies what I always say/see.....people are tight asses. Mainly.

JMHO.

One target, 2 or 3 hundred rounds, impossible to see where or if you are hitting the target. What makes you say they are tight asses CM? They're not stingy with ammo just targets.

Yes people can make all the noise they want, it's a free country. They can also walk out in front of a bus but walking in front of a bus or shooting just to make noise is not what most would consider productive use of time or money. My point is that for many people this practice just demonstrates how inept and ignorant they are about firearms and unfortunately it reflects on all of us.

[FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO…Glock/ M&P Certified armorer[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” Coach[/FONT]

 

[dudley0]

OK, that could be my target for when I practice contact shots while running away.

I wonder how much money and time was spent to make that masterpiece.

 

[churchmouse]

One target, 2 or 3 hundred rounds, impossible to see where or if you are hitting the target. What makes you say they are tight asses CM? They're not stingy with ammo just targets.

Yes people can make all the noise they want, it's a free country. They can also walk out in front of a bus but walking in front of a bus or shooting just to make noise is not what most would consider productive use of time or money. My point is that for many people this practice just demonstrates how inept and ignorant they are about firearms and unfortunately it reflects on all of us.

[FONT=&]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&] / RSO…Glock/ M&P Certified armorer[/FONT][FONT=&]

[/FONT][FONT=&]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT][FONT=&]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&]

[/FONT][FONT=&]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” Coach[/FONT]

You reflect my views on this behavior but I would have to admit this may or may not have happened a few times in my younger life. But when it did and if my uncles were made aware I got my ass handed to me. And with good reason. At least in their eyes.

 

[Tanfodude]

This might be worth a watch.

[video=youtube_share;1z_GQfsNB3M]http://youtu.be/1z_GQfsNB3M[/video]

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-12-insulated-walls/

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-14-rifles-shotguns-and-walls/[/FONT][SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB][/FONT]

 

[thunderchicken]

The target posted above leaves me with more questions than conclusions. Was the target only shot by one person? Was it shot by a new shooter? Was it shot while just plinking or was it a training exercise? I've seen people who left a target like that which had been shot with a .22 and since whatever they were going to shoot would make a bigger hole they just used what was there. Also, many gun owners..maybe most gun owners just make an occasional trip to the range just for entertainment and not to actually train. We've all seen these people when they roll in to the range and that's ok. Even the guy/gal that only once or twice a year shoots the gun they keep in the closet may help the rest of us at the polls. I just hope they don't shoot targets like this with their edc gun and proudly exclaim how good it is.
Now, like others when I shoot I always strive to focus on quality time used for improvement. But there are times too when it's just about having fun. Like when I take a new shooter, the goals then are to be safe and have fun. So, again I have morw questions than speculation

 

[Trigger Time]

I enjoy storytime with NHT3 very much