Right to Work Bill

[UncleMike]

I was having this discussion with a lifelong friend who happens to be part of the union supporters (Most likely exempt from Obamacare BTW). I kept asking him for proof to back his claim and he sent me a link from Rachel Maddow talking head program. Seriously??? I told him that would be like me sending him a link to a Rush Limbaugh excerpt. He got all bent out of shape. But IMO, she's as far left as he is right. That logic does not make sense.

But I found this online the other day and while it is a lot to read, I think their approach is very scientific, their points are well made, and they show how they came about producing the statistics they presented. I suggest folk on both sides of the issue give it a read.

http://www.indianachamber.com/media/pdf/studies/IndianaRightToWork-1-27-11.pdf

Yup...
That's a long read, but it has a lot of good information.
I'm not sure if the Rachel Madcows of the world would believe, or understand it.
BTW
I've often wonder what a "Point/Counterpoint" discussion between her and Rush would look like.
Remember the old Saturday Night Live Point/Counterpoint parodies where Dan Ackroyd would always start of his counter point with Jane Curtin by saying; "Jane you ignorant slut!!" ???

 

[Doug]

I was having this discussion with a lifelong friend who happens to be part of the union supporters (Most likely exempt from Obamacare BTW). I kept asking him for proof to back his claim and he sent me a link from Rachel Maddow talking head program. Seriously??? I told him that would be like me sending him a link to a Rush Limbaugh excerpt. He got all bent out of shape. But IMO, she's as far left as he is right. That logic does not make sense.

But I found this online the other day and while it is a lot to read, I think their approach is very scientific, their points are well made, and they show how they came about producing the statistics they presented. I suggest folk on both sides of the issue give it a read.

http://www.indianachamber.com/media/pdf/studies/IndianaRightToWork-1-27-11.pdf

NO FAIR! You're using facts and statistics. Pat Bauer said it was bad and the union steward said it was bad and I can just take [STRIKE]their[/STRIKE] there word for it and I don't have to think about it 'cause they must be right.

 

[Stschil]

NO FAIR! You're using facts and statistics. Pat Bauer said it was bad and the union steward said it was bad and I can just take [STRIKE]their[/STRIKE] there word for it and I don't have to think about it 'cause they must be right.

Funny thing about facts......Emotion doesnt accept their existence.

 

[UncleMike]

Funny thing about facts......Emotion doesnt accept their existence.

And......
Some people, like Dems/Liberals, prefer to yell and scream rather than investigate the facts.

 

[Stschil]

And......
Some people, like Dems/Liberals, prefer to yell and scream rather than investigate the facts.

Oh they know they are there, don't think for a second that they don't.
They yell and scream to play on the emotions of those who they want to do their dirty work. They know it is fact that by allowing this to pass, it will have a definate negative effect on their campaign war chests, their under the table money, their insider information, and their power base.
Don't under estimate them and take them for fools. They led this nation around by it's testes for decades by playing the emotion card.

 

[Mr. Habib]

Funny thing about facts......Emotion doesnt accept their existence.

You cannot change by reasoning a belief not acquired by logic.

 

[24Carat]

If Indiana rank and file union members are so interested in this protest, why are the majority of them from out of state? For instance, why are 152 teamsters from the Chicago locals signed out to attend the protest? Why is the AFL-CIO bussing in protestors from Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio, as well as some UAW members from the Louisville area?

 

[Sailor]

All of this does not matter. For a variety of reasons manufacturing in the US is destined to die unless we start making big changes fast.

 

[Bunnykid68]

All of this does not matter. For a variety of reasons manufacturing in the US is destined to die unless we start making big changes fast.

Absolutely, people need to realize that just because they think they are worth or deserve $25 an hour does not make it true.

 

[Doug]

Absolutely, people need to realize that just because they think they are worth or deserve $25 an hour does not make it true.

AMEN!
I could be part of the 1% if I could buy the Occupy Wall Street guys for what they are worth and sell them for what they THINK they are worth!

 

[Rocket]

All of this does matter!! What the unions want is the ability to walk into ANY BUSINESS no matter what they do and coerce ONE individual into sighing a Card check agreement to force the Company to go union!! They know manufacturing is dead that is why they need the new members from different places.

 

[goinggreyfast]

Wow, it got awfully quiet in here. Guess all the anti's had to drop back and reformulate after the facts were posted.

"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat." ~ Ronald Reagan

 

[Hanen42]

Every union construction job I've applied for has straight up responded with "What are we supposed to do if you get deployed or during your "2 weeks a year training?" Guess they don't support Vets?! Sorry, I know there are tons of hard working Hoosier men and women who are in union jobs...but I also know alot of sh*t bags who I could work circles around. Bad thing is, the union protects them.

 

[Doug]

Every union construction job I've applied for has straight up responded with "What are we supposed to do if you get deployed or during your "2 weeks a year training?" Guess they don't support Vets?! Sorry, I know there are tons of hard working Hoosier men and women who are in union jobs...but I also know alot of sh*t bags who I could work circles around. Bad thing is, the union protects them.

I bet if you agreed to pay your dues during those times they would have been fine with it.

 

[Westside]

this is the thread that doesn't it end.... Yes it goes on and on my friend....some people started posting not know what it was and they will keep on posting forever just because this is the thread that doesn't end.........

 

[flagtag]

Absolutely, people need to realize that just because they think they are worth or deserve $25 an hour does not make it true.

That's only part of it. The UNION urges the members to demand more pay so that the union can get more money from the members. (It's based on the hourly wage, as you already know.) (Ours is 2X the hourly wage if wages under a certain amount and 2 1/2 X if over that amount.)

 

[csnoski]

Whew....That Took Some Time!

And I didn't find what I was hoping to!!!!

A friend called tonite cuz her hubby came home today all spastic that he was gonna have to take a 50% pay cut if rtw was passed. He works for the City.

I had hoped someone in the last FORTY PAGES would have provided some link about the short term effects on existing union jobs when rtw was passed.

Bright side...it's after midnight now. Hopefully the SOPA protesters are back on line.

Me? Not sure what I think since it would seem to me it WOULD destroy the unions that weren't full of thugs to keep you paying dues. They certainly served a purpose in the 30's and golly, it's like the 30's again right now. More bodies than jobs and that's when employers gain the upper hand. BUT, coming from steel country in the nw corner of state, I have seen how the unions destroyed that industry in the 70's.

 

[Doug]

Well, union membership in Indiana has dropped the last 10 years without a Right to Work law. I think its about 1/2 what it was in 2000.

If you listen to Pat Bauer and the Union spokesmen, the day after Right to Work passes, 90% of the workers will be fired and the remaining 10% will have to do all the work for minimum wage with no overtime and no benefits.
Its all bull.

Not much will change when Right to Work passes.
The unions which do something for their employees will continue. The ones that do little or nothing except protect non-working union members, will gradually disappear.

 

[singlestacksig]

And I didn't find what I was hoping to!!!!

A friend called tonite cuz her hubby came home today all spastic that he was gonna have to take a 50% pay cut if rtw was passed. He works for the City.

I had hoped someone in the last FORTY PAGES would have provided some link about the short term effects on existing union jobs when rtw was passed.

Bright side...it's after midnight now. Hopefully the SOPA protesters are back on line.

Me? Not sure what I think since it would seem to me it WOULD destroy the unions that weren't full of thugs to keep you paying dues. They certainly served a purpose in the 30's and golly, it's like the 30's again right now. More bodies than jobs and that's when employers gain the upper hand. BUT, coming from steel country in the nw corner of state, I have seen how the unions destroyed that industry in the 70's.

short term effects are going to be nil . nothing in the bill requires a pay cut for anyone, it does not break current contracts.
If a union provides real benefits to memebers people will still join..
but if a union does not , then people can be free to not support that union.

 

[cbseniour]

The union movement of the early 20th century created the middle class in America, I don't think that can be denied or even argued. However this is the early 21st century and unions seem to be doing nothing for workers except protecting the jobs of the unworthy. Unions are obsolete just as is the Edsel and their standard retirement and health care benefits which are never funded through investment but only load more debt onto the employeer are killing them and this country.