Report: No "Global Warming" for 325 Months...

[Woobie]

They are handing out the statistics on the hole.
According to NASA (years ago) the hole opens and closes seasonally.
I can not find the link as my Google-Fu is weak today.
CFC's are on the way out but only recently in the grand scale of time and things.
Aerosol propellants were not all CFC's. Many were other inert gases as they were easier to use and far less expensive.

In my limited ability's/knowledge I can not offer up any argument based solely on fact. I can however use my personal experiences from conversations with engineers and other very knowledgeable people who have refuted a lot of what is being force fed to the masses.
Follow the money. Follow the huge grants. Look a what is to be lost and gained in all of this madness. Who is saying what and why. That is a serious way to address what we read and believe.

The big one to me is that they are more dense than air, and have no way of getting to the stratosphere. All of the research was done in laboratories, artificially combining CFC's with Ozone.

 

[printcraft]

David. You assume that Trump is hiding something and therefore won't show his taxes. I agree with that. Why? Well, when he acts like he's hiding something, it's reasonable to suspect that he is. It's the same reason I am skeptical of the climate change alarmists. When they act like they're hiding something, I think it's reasonable to suspect that they are hiding something.

But but but trumps taxes affect everyone unlike climate taxes that don't affect anyone therefore trump is a dick.... or something.

 

[rhino]

The big one to me is that they are more dense than air, and have no way of getting to the stratosphere. All of the research was done in laboratories, artificially combining CFC's with Ozone.

One of the other things that the media never discussed was the equilibrium or at least quasi-equilibrium set of processes that occur in the upper atmosphere among O3 and UV light.

O3 is generated in a few ways, but in the upper atmo O2 molecules absorb some energy from UV light. This causes the O2 molecules to separate into two O atoms, which are a highly reactive radical species looking to complete it's outer shell of electrons. Some of the O radicals then combine in threes, forming O3. Absorption of UV light by O3 is what protects us from some of the UV radiation, but that radiation is also what creates more ozone. As more ozone (O3) is "consumed," the more UV light gets through. BUT . . . the more UV light that gets through, the more O3 is formed along the way.

Nature is pretty cool.

 

[churchmouse]

The big one to me is that they are more dense than air, and have no way of getting to the stratosphere. All of the research was done in laboratories, artificially combining CFC's with Ozone.

That is one of the points I contend.
Freon as used in the industry displaces air by volume. It pools in low spots.
Then the argument is shifted to the Chlorine in the mix. Well, chlorine is in a lot of things including swimming pools and on and on and on.
I am of a mind the entire CFC thing was a false claim put out by the major chemical company's that held the patents on these gasses. This all started around the time they lost the patent rights. The cash cow was going away so lets put a green label on it and force a change. Always follow the money.......always.

Now, an interesting side effect of this manipulation has upped the anti as to efficiency and comfort levels from the newly forced upon us equipment.
The ability of a new 13 SEER 24,000 BTU Central air system to dehumidify as compared to the 9 to 10 SEER units it replaces is really amazing. Also the higher SEER allows it to run at a lower energy usage. These new machines are also a lot quieter as well. A win win actually.

 

[churchmouse]

One of the other things that the media never discussed was the equilibrium or at least quasi-equilibrium set of processes that occur in the upper atmosphere among O3 and UV light.

O3 is generated in a few ways, but in the upper atmo O2 molecules absorb some energy from UV light. This causes the O2 molecules to separate into two O atoms, which are a highly reactive radical species looking to complete it's outer shell of electrons. Some of the O radicals then combine in threes, forming O3. Absorption of UV light by O3 is what protects us from some of the UV radiation, but that radiation is also what creates more ozone. As more ozone (O3) is "consumed," the more UV light gets through. BUT . . . the more UV light that gets through, the more O3 is formed along the way.

Nature is pretty cool.

Until Algore pisses it off.....

 

[rhino]

That is one of the points I contend.
Freon as used in the industry displaces air by volume. It pools in low spots.
Then the argument is shifted to the Chlorine in the mix. Well, chlorine is in a lot of things including swimming pools and on and on and on.
I am of a mind the entire CFC thing was a false claim put out by the major chemical company's that held the patents on these gasses. This all started around the time they lost the patent rights. The cash cow was going away so lets put a green label on it and force a change. Always follow the money.......always.

Now, an interesting side effect of this manipulation has upped the anti as to efficiency and comfort levels from the newly forced upon us equipment.
The ability of a new 13 SEER 24,000 BTU Central air system to dehumidify as compared to the 9 to 10 SEER units it replaces is really amazing. Also the higher SEER allows it to run at a lower energy usage. These new machines are also a lot quieter as well. A win win actually.

rhino needs air conditioning that uses ammonia. When he wants cold, he wants COLD.

Interesting Historical Moment: we certain infamous pachyderm once failed a thermodynamics oral exam in grad school partly because he couldn't remember the name of the Joule-Thomson Effect, or more correctly, when given that name could not place it with the physical process or the equation that governs it. Ironically, the precious air conditioning that sustains his life operates using that very principle.

 

[david890]

I am skeptical of the climate change alarmists. When they act like they're hiding something, I think it's reasonable to suspect that they are hiding something.

What are they hiding? Their findings are public, and often peer-reviewed. The "peers" are often chosen to represent a wide-range of opinions, so as to limit bias in reporting. A journal that is presumed to be biased gets marginalized pretty quickly.

 

[rhino]

David. You assume that Trump is hiding something and therefore won't show his taxes. I agree with that. Why? Well, when he acts like he's hiding something, it's reasonable to suspect that he is. It's the same reason I am skeptical of the climate change alarmists. When they act like they're hiding something, I think it's reasonable to suspect that they are hiding something.

Most of them are literally hiding something.

Example: Michael Mann the hockey stick fraud has resisted legitimate FOIA requests for his raw data when he was working for U of Virginia. All of his data and emails using the university resources should be available for public scrutiny, yet he and his backers prevailed in court.

Scientists who are telling the truth and whose results are repeatable by third parties do not hide their information from the public. In fact, the opposite is true. The want everyone to see it so it can be confirmed independently.

 

[david890]

You just want me to wager my family's safety on your hunch.

And you want me to wager my family's safety on your hunch. If I am wrong, well, lots of green energy around. If you are wrong, lots of CO2 and climate change. If I am wrong, we can always go back to "cheap oil" (for however long it lasts). If you are wrong, no green energy, no cheap oil.

Place your bets, folks. Oh, and it's the farm you're wagering...

 

[david890]

Most of them are literally hiding something.

One example is not "most". To what environmental journals are you subscribed? Aare they peer-reviewed? Cite your examples...

 

[pudly]

And you want me to wager my family's safety on your hunch. If I am wrong, well, lots of green energy around. If you are wrong, lots of CO2 and climate change. If I am wrong, we can always go back to "cheap oil" (for however long it lasts). If you are wrong, no green energy, no cheap oil.

Place your bets, folks. Oh, and it's the farm you're wagering...

And back to Pascal's wager.

 

[david890]

Michael Mann the hockey stick fraud has resisted legitimate FOIA requests for his raw data when he was working for U of Virginia. All of his data and emails using the university resources should be available for public scrutiny, yet he and his backers prevailed in court.

"Based on the CRU email leak, Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli initiated a Civil Investigative Demand against the University of Virginia to obtain documentation relating to Mann's work at the university. The demand sparked widespread academic condemnation as a "blatantly political" attempt to intimidate and silence Mann, and was denied in August 2010 by a judge for failure to state sufficient cause. Cuccinelli tried to re-open his case by issuing a revised subpoena, and appealed the case to the Virginia Supreme Court. The case was defended by the university, and the court ruled that Cuccinelli did not have the authority to make these demands. The decision, seen as supporting academic freedom, was welcomed by the Union of Concerned Scientists." [Wiki]

Yeah, "legit" FOIA requests...

 

[david890]

And back to Pascal's wager.

Oh, FFS. This is the last time I state this:

"Pascal's Wager" applies ONLY TO AN INDIVIDUAL, NOT A SOCIETY. If an individual's actions cause harm ONLY to that individual, then PW applies. CLIMATE CHANGE IS A SOCIETAL ISSUE, SO PW DOES NOT APPLY.

 

[Thor]

Yet you as an individual would dictate societies course. I know, there's more than a couple lunatics who want to destroy humanity to save it but you are by no means a majority. When the costs of what you propose are exposed you are not even a large minority.

 

[Ericpwp]

From the horse's mouth.

Dr. Mann?s FOIA Litigation and CSLDF Involvement - Climate Science Legal Defense Fund

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

My very first ignore.

 

[david890]

From the horse's mouth.

Dr. Mann?s FOIA Litigation and CSLDF Involvement - Climate Science Legal Defense Fund

{Rhino strangely quiet....}

 

[Ericpwp]

So, what makes an illegit FOIA request? And if it is worth all hype why is it unpublished?

 

[BogWalker]

{Rhino strangely quiet....}

Well, he's kinda logged off right now so.....

 

[Woobie]

And you want me to wager my family's safety on your hunch. If I am wrong, well, lots of green energy around. If you are wrong, lots of CO2 and climate change. If I am wrong, we can always go back to "cheap oil" (for however long it lasts). If you are wrong, no green energy, no cheap oil.

Place your bets, folks. Oh, and it's the farm you're wagering...

Im not wagering anything. I'm making sound decisions based on the best information available to me. Provide me with convincing information to do otherwise, and I will. But I will not endanger my family based upon some chance. And I would never purposefully endanger your family, not would I wager their safety. But since the evidence leads me to my choices as they are, I will take the most prudent course of action until it becomes clear that it is no longer the most prudent.

The fact that you see that as a wager brings your judgement into question. The fact that you are basing all of this upon a "societal wager" (that looks suspiciously like Pascal's Wager) also brings your judgement into question. And because I question your judgement based upon the above general observations, why would I trust you on specifics such as climate change?