Report: No "Global Warming" for 325 Months...

[Woobie]

It came from the earth and so it shall return. Or are you saying that 100 million tons of material just appears out of thin air every year?
I know we get material from space every year that adds to the earths mass.... explain please.... here is where that doctorate pays off.

Trash is made from salt we take from the ocean. So are spare tires. Making these things and hauling them around creates CO2, an unnatural substance that is poisonous to plants. When we get done with trash, we leave it in parks until it makes big trash mountains. It stays there until the Germans convert it to electricity that they give away for free.

 

[Thor]

It came from the earth and so it shall return.

Yes indeed, everything on this earth is of this earth.

 

[Thor]

Trash is made from salt we take from the ocean. So are spare tires. Making these things and hauling them around creates CO2, an unnatural substance that is poisonous to plants. When we get done with trash, we leave it in parks until it makes big trash mountains. It stays there until the Germans convert it to electricity that they give away for free.

Hey, I've been working on getting rid of my spare tire. Not the one on my car of course. I've found carrying around too much spare tire generates too much CO2.

 

[Ericpwp]

Hey, I've been working on getting rid of my spare tire. Not the one on my car of course. I've found carrying around too much spare tire generates too much CO2.

QFT

 

[Woobie]

Hey, I've been working on getting rid of my spare tire. Not the one on my car of course. I've found carrying around too much spare tire generates too much CO2.

Finally, some verifiable science!

 

[rhino]

I just realized that I forgot to do my ol' "Hey, we haven't had another genius come here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers in a while" before the most recent genius came here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers.

I'm slipping.

I blame anthropogenic climate change.

 

[Woobie]

I just realized that I forgot to do my ol' "Hey, we haven't had another genius come here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers in a while" before the most recent genius came here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers.

I'm slipping.

I blame anthropogenic climate change.

Probably all that anti-pachyderm discrimination.

 

[rhino]

Probably all that anti-pachyderm discrimination.

Which is a form of . . . racism!

And since we know the climate is racist, BACK ON TOPIC! BOOM!

You're welcome.

 

[jamil]

I get the feeling you don't understand what a "societal" cost is. Your individual cost to CO2 increase by carrying a spare may be negligible, but the CUMULATIVE cost borne by SOCIETY as a whole cannot be ignored - ALL the spares carried by ALL the cars. The average visitor to our National Parks leaves behind a negligible amount of trash (definitions of "negligible" may vary), but the CUMULATIVE amount exceeds 100 million tons per year. Where do we put all that?

Thanks for confirming my point. That's what I thought you meant. If there is a societal cost then that cost is the cumulative cost of individual actions. That implies the societal cost is obviously divisible by individuals. I mean, sheesh, that's a truism. As a smart-ass way of saying that, I offered to write a check for my tiny little part of the societal cost.

The point is, it's mostly a silly exercise that intellectuals like to use to devise reasons why they should be in charge of society instead of just letting individuals mostly take charge of their own lives. When the societal cost of me carrying a spare tire--certainly you're not against carrying spare tires--you can make your case for why I should consider the societal consequences when deciding to carry the spare. But that's all the input you get.

Now, if you're actually trying to make that argument, that the cumulative societal cost is YUGE! Um, okay. Irrational plea noted. That reminds me, I haven't checked the air pressure in my spare in a couple of years. I would be prudent to do that.

So, you're content to let a potential fix to the problem pass you by, just so long as you're nice and toasty? Yeah, that's some nice social responsibility. To hell with everyone else - and their kids, and grandkids, etc., as the problem cannot be fixed in their lifetime. We've passed the tipping point.

I'm not wrong about fossil fuels. They will run out. In the meantime, they'll become so expensive that you won't be able to afford them.

Actually I don't think you're representing my position all that well. You seem to be trying to state things in a way that makes you appear morally superior. It's not as facile as you're making it sound. It's not just me wanting to stay toasty. And I think you actually understand that but said it that way anyway. So let's give you another crack at it with that in mind, and try to say something about my actual position, which I'll try to clarify for you.

Assuming that we're consuming fossil fuels faster than they replenish, and also assuming that the rate of consumption would be sustained at a rate higher than which it replenishes, obviously we would eventually run out. However, for either of us to estimate that, we need to rely on others' work. Neither one of us knows how much fossil fuel there really is. We both have to rely on experts who get their funding from sources that have an existential stake in the answer. I think the oil experts might tend to fudge one way. The green experts will try to fudge another. The greenies told us all through the 70s that we were running out of oil quickly. Well, that didn't happen.

On the whole subject, I think I have plenty of reasons to be skeptical about what I'm being told, and I gave the reasons I'm skeptical. And unless you're a scientist in one of the relevant fields, I think you really don't have a lot more input to it than I have. I'm going by the best information I have available, and observations I can make. And I'm not restricting my input to just certain sources like you are. I'm listening to both sides. I have no irrational need to be fiercely loyal to just one. I believe they all will lie because I've caught them lying in the past. Pro-oil, pro-green.

That may sound cynical, but when it comes to human motivation, a lifetime of observation has taught me no one is altruistic. If you want me to fiercely defend the alarmists, I'll do that if I believe all the alarmism is reasonable. But to get me to do that, they need to be more transparent. I've listed all the ways they aren't transparent in other posts and other threads. If you have any rebuttals to that, I suggest you dig them up and get to it. But you can knock off the moral high horse nonsense. I ain't buying it.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Woobie]

Which is a form of . . . racism!

And since we know the climate is racist, BACK ON TOPIC! BOOM!

You're welcome.

Its a pleasure to watch you work.

 

[Leadeye]

Actually Pascal's Wager is exactly what you used. Own it bud.

I have actually needed a spare a couple of times. They are there for a reason. So I'll not be giving mine up, thanks. And I would love to see the numbers on this, too. I'll bet all the spare tires in the U.S. don't add 1/2 the CO2 as the cooking fires in one province of Cambodia.

My spare tire is filled with air and Pascal was one of those computer languages along with Fortran I had to learn in school. There's time I'll never get back.

 

[Woobie]

My spare tire is filled with air and Pascal was one of those computer languages along with Fortran I had to learn in school. There's time I'll never get back.

Lol, your post turned on a light bulb. Here is how it all comes full circle:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_law

Yep, that's right! Pascal took a bet and wrote a law. Now the air pressure in that spare tire is uniform throughout the vessel. Boom! Eat it Rhino!

 

[david890]

And yes there is a limit to how much water the atmosphere can absorb, which is in large part dependent on the temperature of the atmosphere. So warmer atmosphere = higher limit.

Sure, if you want an air temp of 200F to hold all that water...

And yep it could/would alter the chemistry of the oceans, which has happened before. They survived didn't they?

The oceans, yes. The plants/animals in them? Not so much...

Actually no we don't have to sink a shaft 35,000 ft in the Gulf of Mexico to hit oil. Well we don't have to barring federal regulations that is. The reason they are doing so is because they aren't allowed to drill where it would be easier.

So that means, YES, they have to drill to 35,000'.

Are you sure on that? You do know that there is work in progress to create new "fossil fuels" right? For instance here is one example Scientists create renewable fossil fuel alternative using bacteria. And another https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/04/130422154911.htm

Wow. Reading comprehension fail. A "fossil fuel ALTERNATIVE". As in "we don't have to use fossil fuels anymore.

Not to mention that fossil fuels are still being produced naturally.

Really? Where are these new pools of oil? These new pockets of gas? Links, please.

And how do you expect oil to suddenly come up short?

Were you alive in 1973? Shortages can be man-made as well as natural...

Oh and I forgot to quote it but you mentioned all the "subsidies" the oil companies get.

THESE. Upwards of $1 TRILLION in the US and $5.3 TRILLION internationally.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Sure, if you want an air temp of 200F to hold all that water...

The oceans, yes. The plants/animals in them? Not so much...

So that means, YES, they have to drill to 35,000'.

Wow. Reading comprehension fail. A "fossil fuel ALTERNATIVE". As in "we don't have to use fossil fuels anymore.

Really? Where are these new pools of oil? These new pockets of gas? Links, please.

Were you alive in 1973? Shortages can be man-made as well as natural...

THESE. Upwards of $1 TRILLION in the US and $5.3 TRILLION internationally.

Cite where it would take an air temp of 200F. And that was in response to your statement that the "air can only hold so much". Actually you stated that there was an upper limit to the amount of moisture the atmosphere can hold. Upper limit implies a set amount, not variable.

There seem to be a good deal of diversity and amount of plants and animals in the oceans now. If nothing survived where did they come from?

No, they don't "have" to, they are required to. And that was in response to your statement that we have to do so because we are aiming at the last vestiges, which is false.

Maybe an alternative, but it seems to indicate we won't be "running out" any time soon. Especially since it seems we can "make more"

Do you believe that the natural processes that create them have stopped? Any evidence that they have? And you really need links that show all the "new" discoveries?

Yep I was alive in 1973, what happened? Did the US stop dead? Cars sitting all over the streets?

I didn't see any specific subsidies listed. It seems you and they don't quite understand the definition of "subsidy" Here it is.

• : a grant or gift of money: as
  a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation
  b : money granted by one state to another
  c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public
  

Using business deductions that are available to all isn't a subsidy, it's called good business practice. Not having punitive taxation due to the type of business isn't a subsidy. Once again what specific subsidies are you referring to in the US. Here I'll even help you out with an example of what a subsidy is, when the US govt had a refundable tax credit for installing solar panels/wind mills, that was a subsidy. When they gave people more than their vehicles were worth to buy a new one, that was a subsidy. Heck I'd even consider the tax credit that ethanol producers get as a subsidy, which while it isn't a direct payment by the govt, it functions as one by reducing the amount of tax owed in a way different form than deductions. The tax credits aren't effected by expenses, they are a direct cut based on volume regardless of the costs born by the business. Have anything comparable for the oil/gas industry?

 

[MTC]

NASA - The Planet Venus

Im sure the problems there have nothing to do with the clouds of sulfuric acid. Or the landscape of volcanoes and magma. Or the proximity to the sun. Nope it's all the CO2 created by inhabitants driving around with those danged spare tires.

Wow! So Germany had nearly all its needs met on one day when the sun was shining and the wind was blowing at the right speed. It still didn't power their evil vehicles (with spare tires). Meanwhile, they can't even buy an electric kettle because it uses too much electricity...

Trash is made from salt we take from the ocean. So are spare tires. Making these things and hauling them around creates CO2, an unnatural substance that is poisonous to plants. When we get done with trash, we leave it in parks until it makes big trash mountains. It stays there until the Germans convert it to electricity that they give away for free.

(system commissar has decreed that I have used up carbon credits and cannot rep that environmental-poisoning, toxic-polluting, yankee imperialist capitalist pig Woobie again)

I just realized that I forgot to do my ol' "Hey, we haven't had another genius come here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers in a while" before the most recent genius came here to educate us poor intellectually deficient science deniers.

I'm slipping.

I blame anthropogenic climate change.

I'll quote your arch nemesis here: "I blame rhino."

 

[actaeon277]

Volcanos produce more CO2 and particulate than humans. Guess we should go after Mother Nature now.

 

[printcraft]

I let the air out of my spare tires.
They hold like 40 lbs. of air and I figure the weight savings will increase my mileage.

 

[eldirector]

Really? Where are these new pools of oil? These new pockets of gas? Links, please.

Interestingly, there are a few theories about exactly this.

Not exactly a "scholarly source", but discusses oil deposit creation:
Where Does Oil Come From

Leading theory is that oil is decomposed biomass. The process is still happening (lots of stuff has died over the last, oh, billion years), but our consumption is outpacing production.

Secondary theory is that natural methane deposits are converted to complex hydrocarbons at the high temps and pressures of the mantle or deep crust. So, as long as there is methane (and there is a LOT) we should be getting oil.

Additionally, it is now known that complex hydrocarbons (oil) are also naturally occurring, needing no biomass starter. For example, Saturn's moon Titan has more "oil" on it that all of Earth. Imagine THAT pipeline!
Titan Has More Oil Than Earth

 

[spencer rifle]

I let the air out of my spare tires.
They hold like 40 lbs. of air and I figure the weight savings will increase my mileage.

So, if I have a hydrogen-powered car, does it weigh less with a full tank?

 

[printcraft]

So, if I have a hydrogen-powered car, does it weigh less with a full tank?

Exactly. That's why they are so efficient.