Pistol Caliber Carbine - SC & USPSA

[midget]

oops...didn't mean to post

 

[cschwanz]

Ok I must be mistaken

So when are you guys going to hold your first PCC match? I mean if there is this much interest in it, It should be able to hold it own right?

Like I stated before the IDPA crowd has their carbine match and it is always a big success.

I have zero interest in hosting a PCC only match (I don't even want to MD a USPSA match anymore, thus RVB is in charge at FWRR the last couple years and doing a fine job ). As I said a few times, this division really doesn't interest me directly since I don't own a gun for it nor do I plan to buy/build one anytime soon. But, if USPSA makes it a provisional or eventually official division if there is enough interest, then its part of the match. Same with Carry Optics. I don't have one of those nor do I want one, but if someone shows up with one, ok. Won't change my day at all

The IDPA carbine match does seem to draw some attention from what I've seen, which is great. But I prefer the USPSA type match format/rule set over the odd rule set I remember seeing with that match. Not to start a USPSA vs IDPA argument within an already enthralling one tho...

 

[Coach]

It seems a few people who don't match direct seem to think it will be no problem. So get your timers in hand and RO the thing and show us to be wrong.

 

[sporter]

It seems a few people who don't match direct seem to think it will be no problem. So get your timers in hand and RO the thing and show us to be wrong.

I am not sure that would change anyones mind at this point.

 

[rvb]

It seems a few people who don't match direct seem to think it will be no problem. So get your timers in hand and RO the thing and show us to be wrong.

Huh? I've seen ROs/CROs/MDs in this very thread who don't seem to think it will be a problem. I'm quite sure they will spend their fair share of time w a timer in their hand regardless...

I think there is a little room for caution. I've seen some very bad gun long-gun handling at other events (primarily when milling around, gearing up, etc, not necessarily while shooting a stage); like just because it's not holstered, any time is a good time to play with it. But I think think USPSA's culture wont allow that. For the most part, I'm not concerned. At worst I see a short learning curve for competitors and staff.

What I think is missing from HQ, and maybe we'll see this addressed before the provisional division goes live, is specific rules about the gun handling (when to retrieve from cases, storage in carts, etc)...

-rvb

 

[Coach]

Huh? I've seen ROs/CROs/MDs in this very thread who don't seem to think it will be a problem. I'm quite sure they will spend their fair share of time w a timer in their hand regardless...

I think there is a little room for caution. I've seen some very bad gun long-gun handling at other events (primarily when milling around, gearing up, etc, not necessarily while shooting a stage); like just because it's not holstered, any time is a good time to play with it. But I think think USPSA's culture wont allow that. For the most part, I'm not concerned. At worst I see a short learning curve for competitors and staff.

What I think is missing from HQ, and maybe we'll see this addressed before the provisional division goes live, is specific rules about the gun handling (when to retrieve from cases, storage in carts, etc)...

-rvb

Time will tell.

 

[Coach]

I am not sure that would change anyones mind at this point.

If it goes well everyone would come around.

 

[Twangbanger]

...What I think is missing from HQ, and maybe we'll see this addressed before the provisional division goes live, is specific rules about the gun handling (when to retrieve from cases, storage in carts, etc)...

-rvb

How long until we get Sporting Clays and Highpower-style pull carts showing up...yech.

 

[rvb]

How long until we get Sporting Clays and Highpower-style pull carts showing up...yech.

This is practical shooting... its all about the coolest baby stroller...
-rvb

 

[blkrifle]

seems to be a lot of open shooter bashing going on here.......its the original division!


WVPPS has 3 extra sundays (5th sunday of the month)spoke for, a bunch of props, kindle scoring,etc. We just need a PCC match director and a set up crew....

 

[bigcraig]

I rebuilt my 9mm suppressed SBR upper recently, just to update it a bit.

Figured I would build a "gamer" upper too. It is only money.

 

[sv40sw45]

seems to be a lot of open shooter bashing going on here.......its the original division!


WVPPS has 3 extra sundays (5th sunday of the month)spoke for, a bunch of props, kindle scoring,etc. We just need a PCC match director and a set up crew....

I have to agree with this. Same thing at SCGC. I don't want PCC at our USPSA matches.

 

[rvb]

I rebuilt my 9mm suppressed SBR upper recently, just to update it a bit.

Figured I would build a "gamer" upper too. It is only money.

Nice. I see a new upper in my future also...

 

[bwframe]

I rebuilt my 9mm suppressed SBR upper recently, just to update it a bit.

Figured I would build a "gamer" upper too. It is only money.

I wonder if SBR's will dominate this division?

 

[bigcraig]

I wonder if SBR's will dominate this division?

To be honest, I believe they would. But they still won't be as fast as a good Open dun shooter.

That said, with the ATF requirements involved to transport SBRs out of state, I can see some folks not bothering with it. Also, some states don't allow SBRs.

Sadly, I think that while the PCC division makes sense in most regards to be shot at USPSA handgun matches, I also don't think it is going to be well received. Some issues that detractors have brought up are unwarranted, meaning the safety of transport, bagging and time issues. But I also can understand that it will be additional work for a match director that has to make second written stage brief for every stage for the PCC shooters, due to some of the start positions and classifiers. Also, let's face it, some of the shooting positions that we have encountered in matches with handguns can be very problematic with a PCC.

I also don't think that PCC only matches will take off and become popular, unless, you allow rifle caliber carbines as well. That means no steel targets due range restrictions, which is part of the attraction of running a PCC in handgun matches.

In the end, while I am mostly in favor of the PCC division, I just don't think it will ever be well received and therefore die a slow death.

 

[jakemartens]

All depends on whether or not MD's want to have it. There are parts of the country that have been running pcc matches after their handgun matches with very large attendance, and separate stand alone matches.
There once was a time when people didn't want production ad a Divison, and not to have single stack...
I get that some ranges don't allow Rifles in any form, but some of the excuses I have heard are just plain silly:
It is unsafe - 3gun seems to handle
Start positions - low ready, pointed at...
Added time - Unload show clear.. Chamber flag or holster
Don't want "that crowd" - anything that gets people out to shoot can't be a bad thing

Have I ran out and bought a pcc set up, nope probably won't, but I also don't have an open gun or carry optics gun or a revolver, kind of the same reason not interested in shooting those division, doesn't mean I don't want others to enjoy it (except revolver... Seriously.. It is 2016!)

 

[rvb]

To be honest, I believe they would. But they still won't be as fast as a good Open dun shooter.

That said, with the ATF requirements involved to transport SBRs out of state, I can see some folks not bothering with it. Also, some states don't allow SBRs.

Sadly, I think that while the PCC division makes sense in most regards to be shot at USPSA handgun matches, I also don't think it is going to be well received. Some issues that detractors have brought up are unwarranted, meaning the safety of transport, bagging and time issues. But I also can understand that it will be additional work for a match director that has to make second written stage brief for every stage for the PCC shooters, due to some of the start positions and classifiers. Also, let's face it, some of the shooting positions that we have encountered in matches with handguns can be very problematic with a PCC.

I also don't think that PCC only matches will take off and become popular, unless, you allow rifle caliber carbines as well. That means no steel targets due range restrictions, which is part of the attraction of running a PCC in handgun matches.

In the end, while I am mostly in favor of the PCC division, I just don't think it will ever be well received and therefore die a slow death.

I don't see extra work for an MD other than a maybe a couple of other words in a single stage brief IF PCC has to start in a unique position. Vast majority of the time one brief will do. The rules define the PCC start position. If you want something else, like a table start, specifically state the start position includes PCC.

Sbrs will be popular for the tight positions for sure, but I don't see a huge advantage there. My PCC now has a 5" barrel and I'm probablly going to build a new upper with sometng like an 11 or 12" barrel for the division.

I think once people resize most of the fears are unfounded, it will be successful.

-rvb

 

[Coach]

seems to be a lot of open shooter bashing going on here.......its the original division!


WVPPS has 3 extra sundays (5th sunday of the month)spoke for, a bunch of props, kindle scoring,etc. We just need a PCC match director and a set up crew....

Any takers on this yet?

 

[Coach]

All depends on whether or not MD's want to have it. There are parts of the country that have been running pcc matches after their handgun matches with very large attendance, and separate stand alone matches.
There once was a time when people didn't want production ad a Divison, and not to have single stack...
I get that some ranges don't allow Rifles in any form, but some of the excuses I have heard are just plain silly:
It is unsafe - 3gun seems to handle
Start positions - low ready, pointed at...
Added time - Unload show clear.. Chamber flag or holster
Don't want "that crowd" - anything that gets people out to shoot can't be a bad thing

Have I ran out and bought a pcc set up, nope probably won't, but I also don't have an open gun or carry optics gun or a revolver, kind of the same reason not interested in shooting those division, doesn't mean I don't want others to enjoy it (except revolver... Seriously.. It is 2016!)

Who is going to provide the chamber flags for the people who don't have them? Who is going to take them aside and show them that the chamber flag does not go down the muzzle?

 

[rvb]

Who is going to provide the chamber flags for the people who don't have them? Who is going to take them aside and show them that the chamber flag does not go down the muzzle?

If they don't have a flag they can leave them bagged based on the proposed rules. Probably won't bankrupt the club to have a few flags on hand to loan out, either.

What keeps newb pistols shooters from walking around with a hot gun? How have people survived 3gun matches?

-rvb