Pistol Caliber Carbine - SC & USPSA

[sporter]

Who is going to provide the chamber flags for the people who don't have them? Who is going to take them aside and show them that the chamber flag does not go down the muzzle?

What if the skyfalls?

 

[Bosshoss]

doesn't mean I don't want others to enjoy it (except revolver... Seriously.. It is 2016!)

Hahahahahahah

Hey wait a minute.

Jake bite me!!!!!!!!

 

[Coach]

If they don't have a flag they can leave them bagged based on the proposed rules. Probably won't bankrupt the club to have a few flags on hand to loan out, either.

What keeps newb pistols shooters from walking around with a hot gun? How have people survived 3gun matches?

-rvb

Many people are slow to start pistol matches because 80% of the handgun world does not own a holster. That holster requirement keeps many shakey gun handlers away. PCC requires a case. I think that many will show up to their first match without a case or a flag. If they don't have a flag their case is going to be at the start position, and someone will have to bring it to them, or provide them with a flag. Will it be unsafe? Maybe, maybe not. But if someone has to bring them the case that adds time to unload and show clear. Depending on the size of the stage it could add up.

I have seen a ton of people come into the gun store with no case, no flags. I have seen a dozen people put the flag down the muzzle when I hand it to them. Several of these were PCC owners. Our culture will not abide that. They will either be tough and get better or not come back. But either way it will be a learning curve for everyone.

I have been trying to be a voice of reason for those who have been saying this is easy, no problem, put in the division and lets shoot, nothing will be different. I am not going to shoot it. I don't care if others do. I don't want it screwing up the pistol matches that I want to shoot. It is going to slow things down, or it won't be safe. How long do those 3 gun matches last?????????



I am not against new shooters. I match directed a match for several years that was new shooter friendly. I am still match directing a match that is new shooter friendly. I have match directed a ton more than anyone on this thread that is thinking it easy and no problem. If the whole process is thought through and prepared for it can be done. But it won't be easy and to be done well it will involve a learning curve.

Everyone beating the drum almost without exception is just wanting to shoot their PCC. That is fine. Those against just don't want their pistol match slowed.

 

[Coach]

What if the skyfalls?

Put a match together and show me how to do it.

 

[Coach]

Any takers on this yet?

Yet?

 

[sporter]

Put a match together and show me how to do it.

I don't think anyone in this thread has questioned your match directing, or organizing capabilities.

Allow some PCC shooters and I will RO that squad.

If it fails then you can tell everyone you told them so, and how right you were.

Sure, I wouldn't mind giving it a try. Would I shoot it every weekend, no. But it would be a nice break I think for those that constantly RO every Match, or decide to mix up divisions a little.

I guess I look at this from the standpoint of this sports survival, it has to keep growing to stay alive, just like a business.

Point being you might get people off the couch and to a Match with some sort of firearm who might not have ever shot a match otherwise. And we also will probably see more pistol shooters in the long run because of it.

 

[blkrifle]

The USPSA match in Owensboro this Saturday will include PCC division

 

[drewtitans]

..

 

[mongo404]

Oh I have questioned his abilities for years.

Go Owensboro!!!!

Here's my last thought on the subject. PCC does not belong in a Pistol Match. That is all

 

[Coach]

Oh I have questioned his abilities for years.

Go Owensboro!!!!

Here's my last thought on the subject. PCC does not belong in a Pistol Match. That is all

You usually ask the wrong questions.

Amen on the other part.

 

[Grelber]

The USPSA match in Owensboro this Saturday will include PCC division

Friday it was obvious that folks were learning the process. No flags or bags at first, I still don't know the correct range commands, etc..
Got better toward the end of the day and maybe would be a non issue in a short while.

 

[Grelber]

But either way I don't like it .

 

[rvb]

Friday it was obvious that folks were learning the process. No flags or bags at first, I still don't know the correct range commands, etc..
Got better toward the end of the day and maybe would be a non issue in a short while.

Just curious, did you discuss during the shooters meeting how to handle bags/flags?

I don't think USPSA has proposed new range commands.

Thats an example the "more detail" I said I'd like to see in the proposed rules. When we say hammer down, imo everyone should do exactly that. After hammer down people can either bag or pull the bolt for a flag. But w.o it being explicit I can see folks arguing they shouldn't have to Hammer down w. A flag, etc...

-rvb

 

[Grelber]

Just curious, did you discuss during the shooters meeting how to handle bags/flags?

I don't think USPSA has proposed new range commands.

Thats an example the "more detail" I said I'd like to see in the proposed rules. When we say hammer down, imo everyone should do exactly that. After hammer down people can either bag or pull the bolt for a flag. But w.o it being explicit I can see folks arguing they shouldn't have to Hammer down w. A flag, etc...

-rvb

It was a first time on Friday match and we only had about 13 total, so we just shot 1 large squad without shooters meeting and normal fanfare.

Seems like your note tells me that the safety stuff wasn't thought through ahead of time, if this is right it seems really Abbie Normal for Uspsa. I assumed that all of the basics were established and I just hadn't read them.

 

[rvb]

It just seems like not a lot of thought was put into them. Our pistol rules are so good because of decades of closing loopholes. Commands are a very minor issue. One issue I see happening at 3guns is all the sweeping that happens when guys take log guns off their carts and transition from muzzle down to up. And what does carried vertical mean? Is 30 degrees from vertical close enough in a stroller? Does a chamber flag have to go IN the chamber? (I usually stick mine through the the mag well so a) in addition to showing through the ejection port you can see there's no mag in it and can't insert a mag, b ) the bolt doesn't chew up the flag as bad and c) they're easier to get in that way. )

 

[BillD]

I see this is not allowed at South Central, definitely out at Silver Creek (no rifles on the range).
Is this going to be allowed at Atlanta and Riley while a provisional division?

I'm assuming once it's no longer provisional that clubs will have to offer it (assuming the range allows) or no longer be affiliated with USPSA. Is that correct?

 

[Bosshoss]

IIRC Bill they said it was up to the match director whether or not they have that division at their club.
It is not mandatory.

 

[BillD]

IIRC Bill they said it was up to the match director whether or not they have that division at their club.
It is not mandatory.

Wouldn't it have to be, after the provisional phase?
Can MD's just leave out...revolver?

 

[Grelber]

IIRC Bill they said it was up to the match director whether or not they have that division at their club.
It is not mandatory.

Documented.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHash5takWU

 

[rvb]

Wouldn't it have to be, after the provisional phase?
Can MD's just leave out...revolver?

Of course. Just reference the IN SS/Prod/Rev match, which leaves out Open/Lim/L10. Or division-specific Nationals. It just has to be specified before the match starts.

6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division.
6.2.5 Where a Division is unavailable or deleted ......
Apx A2: Prior to the commencement of a match, the organizers must specify which Division(s) will be recognized...

The only hiccup is 6.2.5 says they would shoot for no score if the division isn't recognized and no suitable division available, but some clubs may not allow them to be shot. Another rule issue they need to sort out before going "prime time." So PCC is different than say revolver, because a revo could still shoot just not for score.

-rvb