Pentagon to open SEALs, Army Rangers to women

[HeadlessRoland]

They can't do those jobs. Period.

The standards will be lowered in order to squeeze a few through to make ole Barry look good to his base and good men will die because of it. This administration has been ready from day one to sacrifice the lives of servicemen and women for political gain and it keeps on going.

It's always the people who didn't get first place or graduate a school ect, who are the ones who preach for equality and a lowering of standards to make it fair for everyone. Winners dont share their gold medals for a reason. its because they earned them! thats a concept this new all embracing society wants us to forget. the act of earning sonething because you worked hard to get it. somethin our current president will never inderstand because he bever had to work for anything and is a bum just like all the other liberal hippies who rode others backs to get where they are. Well some things in life aren't meant to be for everyone. And special operations is one of them. They don't need the second best, only the best. And if your not the best then you don't get the tab, you don't get the t-shirt, you don't get the short life expectancy, sorry. Go find another Job within the military.

Everyone wants to be a rock star in the world and reap the benefits of fame fortune women but there's a reason that everyone is not a rock star who picks up a guitar. It takes the hard work and dedication and uniqueness to achieve that level. If everyone could do it then it wouldn't be special and unique would it?
Same with what we see in the military. There's a reason that some special people go do the thankless jobs you will never see on the news or read about in a book and that's because only they are good enough to do it!
If a woman could truly perform to all the standards and peer reviews in an unbiased way the she deserves in. But we all know that the politicians will not let it go down like that. They need some women to make it to dangle in front of the press and they will dumb it down in order to get that as fast as possible.

Hey you're destroying the worldview of these liberals who watched G.I. Jane and didn't realize it was a movie!

 

[Survivalcookie]

Again, if ONE single woman can do the job of SEALs, then why should she be prohibited from joining? Just because every other woman "can't" isn't justification to deny her that right. "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness," right? Explain to me how if one is "qualified," to do the job at same standards of men, and yet is denied because she the sole person of her sex that "can," how our beliefs are not corrupted.

The special forces like the Seals are a well oiled machine...they live together, eat together, and train together...A woman would throw the whole thing off.
Woman and men are not the same, now in your case that may not be true...but in the real world world women have their place as does men.

 

[Survivalcookie]

Great now our soldiers will have to worry about bears. I heard somewhere their periods attract bears. The bears can smell the menstruation!

lol and sharks in the water.

 

[Survivalcookie]

And if she was enlisted, she could have pulled pull that off as well. I was only trying to convey the idea that a PT entrance test set up for men CAN be met by some women without lowering the standards. Good God. Sorry I interjected.

I don't think so...women are different than men, physically, emotionally and everything in between. You also have to look that men are bred to take of woman, a real man anyway. I know there are young men who's parents failed to teach them that...but my grandsons know they better hold a door for a woman, help her pick up something in the store if she is struggling with it. Even if a woman could pass the PT test, she would have to be a larger woman to carry a 80 pound pack for days, it would be physically impossible for her to carry is 60 to 80 percent of her body weight non-stop...I think you said she weighted 100 or 120 pounds. So do they reduce what she carries...how will she survive, does another man carry her stuff...why should he be burdened.

 

[Survivalcookie]

And we learned way back in GW 1 that female sailors that are on ships with male sailors end up pregnant at a high rate... I imagine the Special Forces guys would perform as well as the other folks.

My husband had 1 female officer on his ship during Dessert Storm...they made the accommodations. But you are right...woman ending up pregnant Is a common thing, Want to leave your deployment get pregnant..There were many woman when they first started putting woman on ships that came home with $1000's of extra dollars and they were not poker winnings.

 

[the1kidd03]

I don't think so...women are different than men, physically, emotionally and everything in between. You also have to look that men are bred to take of woman, a real man anyway. I know there are young men who's parents failed to teach them that...but my grandsons know they better hold a door for a woman, help her pick up something in the store if she is struggling with it. Even if a woman could pass the PT test, she would have to be a larger woman to carry a 80 pound pack for days, it would be physically impossible for her to carry is 60 to 80 percent of her body weight non-stop...I think you said she weighted 100 or 120 pounds. So do they reduce what she carries...how will she survive, does another man carry her stuff...why should he be burdened.

I like the way you think. Logically.

I'm going to have to dig into some of the physiology and psychology books I've read which talks about the different chemicals, developed portions of the brain, etc. which control how we function, react, and process information between male and female. There is infinitely more to this topic than people realize.

No matter how badly one wants to be treated equally, how right/wrong it is, and no matter how well intentioned someone is...it's not as easy to alter all of the factors which make up one's psychological processes and thousands of years of physiological evolution.

My wife is the most independent, hard nosed, and self-reliant woman I've met. Tell her she can't do something and she'll do it just to prove you wrong. She's always wanted to do military and be in the suck, but she realizes that she is not "pre-wired" for it and therefore doesn't agree that women should be in this role.

Defending the home full of loved ones. Absolutely. There are different motivational factors there which affect a woman's thought processes; more emotion involved in driving the decisive factors.

Being able to go from "happy go lucky" to the most violently minded person you can at the drop of hat....simply goes against everything that makes up a woman's psychology. That's not to say that there aren't those who are straddling the line physically and therefore mentally as well, but they are very few and far between.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional psych-anything. I do however personally know several and have always researched it for personal interest and to help me professionally as well.

I would venture to guess a lot of the motivation to do with this movement is founded in the fact that women make decisions more through emotions than men. They typically feel the need to be a "part of the group" and feel "included." They are more prone to sympathy, and to be able to "connect" to others through their experiences and it is through all of this that their decisions are made. From my research, I would presume that it is likely due to all of this that they are driven to want to be in those roles; that they sympathize with their "comrades" and want to be "a part of the group" as a "noble warrior" rather than further downplayed as "just a woman" which can induce more negative feelings to further motivate them to prove it wrong.

This of course is speculation from what I've read and there is no published research into this specific topic that I'm aware of. There has been some psychological research going on in the Russian region of the world regarding women in combat, but if I'm not mistaken that research is also targeting a different aspect of it than what I'm talking about here (aftermath of women in combat.)

Also, there are numerous other factors which attribute to everyone's decision making processes as well. Here is a very general, high level article on some of what I've mentioned for anyone's interest:10 Psychological Gender Differences - ShaveMagazine.com

 

[TEK]

the issue is not whether they can do the job or not nor is it whehter or not physical standards will be lowered. there will always be some units that command knows are better than others and they fit in or they dont.

no the issue is using the mlitary to reeducate society and socially engineer the citizens to think a certain way. Uncle's been using his army to do that since the days when Tories were tarred n feathered n run out of town.

governments use military to change ideas not just by klling the enemy or "occupying" foreign territory but by re-educating the people who comprise the ranks. Yes we don't like it but it is perhaps unrealistic to believe our government won't engage in this just like others do.

if you believe that men and women are different and there should be a different place for men and women in society, then you have traditional beliefs. those have been under attack in the west for centuries. it is a mopping up job now. I dont say that Tradition is wrong I just say it is mostly gone here now.

This one newsbit isn't anything surprising.

 

[iChokePeople]

Being able to go from "happy go lucky" to the most violently minded person you can at the drop of hat....simply goes against everything that makes up a woman's psychology.

Oh, that's RICH, right there. There's no creature on earth that will make that transition faster than a mother. You don't even have to THREATEN her kids -- just say something mildly negative about one. Go ahead, test my theory. Do it.

 

[the1kidd03]

Oh, that's RICH, right there. There's no creature on earth that will make that transition faster than a mother. You don't even have to THREATEN her kids -- just say something mildly negative about one. Go ahead, test my theory. Do it.

Good point.

A mother, yes. That transition would again be based in emotion. A much deeper emotional connection than that of simply a team mate.

B**** slapping someone for mouthing off is quite different than driving a blade into someone's chest

 

[churchmouse]

Oh, that's RICH, right there. There's no creature on earth that will make that transition faster than a mother. You don't even have to THREATEN her kids -- just say something mildly negative about one. Go ahead, test my theory. Do it.

Yup....I dare them to as well.

Hell man, I am near as touchy with my kids and can get a bit nuts over the grand kids.......I guess I am a MOTHER.....ah, I better not.

 

[iChokePeople]

Good point.

A mother, yes. That transition would again be based in emotion. A much deeper emotional connection than that of simply a team mate.

B**** slapping someone for mouthing off is quite different than driving a blade into someone's chest

Just means she wasn't making a sammich when you mentioned that little Johnny's shoes didn't really match his pants today.

 

[the1kidd03]

Just means she wasn't making a sammich when you mentioned that little Johnny's shoes didn't really match his pants today.

Little dense today....missing the connection?

EDIT: Nvm...I got what you meant.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I, the "Great Blackhawk2001, will now foretell the future (based on what has happened in the past in Army Aviation). The first few women candidates will try to compete and fail. The military "leadership", eager to oversee a "successful transition", will lower the standards progressively until one or two women "succeed." Then they will declare the program a success and lower the standards again until more women "qualify." The women won't be able to hang with the men, do much of the heavy work required, and will be variously offended at the men's behavior or at their lack of behavior and will complain that the reason they (the women) get poor performance reviews is because the men are mean and hate them. Officers will be relieved, and more women will find positions until SOCOM of tomorrow becomes a watered-down shadow of its current ability.

Seriously, the first few women who went through flight school were substandard and the officers quickly gravitated toward ground assignments, while the warrant officers just got shunted around from unit to unit. We had a couple really good female Huey mechanics, but even they couldn't handle some of the maintenance duties required by their positions.

This is a dumb, extremely dumb move on the part of the Chain of Command, and American lives will be lost because of it.

It's not that no females can meet the standards, but that, inevitably, the standards will be lowered until females can meet them. That's wrong.

 

[Denny347]

I don't think so...women are different than men, physically, emotionally and everything in between. You also have to look that men are bred to take of woman, a real man anyway. I know there are young men who's parents failed to teach them that...but my grandsons know they better hold a door for a woman, help her pick up something in the store if she is struggling with it. Even if a woman could pass the PT test, she would have to be a larger woman to carry a 80 pound pack for days, it would be physically impossible for her to carry is 60 to 80 percent of her body weight non-stop...I think you said she weighted 100 or 120 pounds. So do they reduce what she carries...how will she survive, does another man carry her stuff...why should he be burdened.

I never posted her weight, it's probably about 130ish, I've never asked. Her problem would be the same as a guy that weighs the same as her. I have another guy I work out with that is 145lbs and about 5% BF, he would have the same problems. If he or she cannot cut it, then neither need to continue. I would imagine those are issues that get worked out in their respective schools. If ANYONE cannot carry their fair share then they get cut.

 

[iChokePeople]

I never posted her weight, it's probably about 130ish, I've never asked. Her problem would be the same as a guy that weighs the same as her. I have another guy I work out with that is 145lbs and about 5% BF, he would have the same problems. If he or she cannot cut it, then neither need to continue. I would imagine those are issues that get worked out in their respective schools. If ANYONE cannot carry their fair share then they get cut.

I love your dream, but it's not reality, or at least was not reality in the military I remember from the 80s and 90s. Maybe they've gotten better since I've been gone.

 

[Denny347]

I love your dream, but it's not reality, or at least was not reality in the military I remember from the 80s and 90s. Maybe they've gotten better since I've been gone.

I don't pretend to know.

 

[Survivalcookie]

I like the way you think. Logically.

I'm going to have to dig into some of the physiology and psychology books I've read which talks about the different chemicals, developed portions of the brain, etc. which control how we function, react, and process information between male and female. There is infinitely more to this topic than people realize.

No matter how badly one wants to be treated equally, how right/wrong it is, and no matter how well intentioned someone is...it's not as easy to alter all of the factors which make up one's psychological processes and thousands of years of physiological evolution.

My wife is the most independent, hard nosed, and self-reliant woman I've met. Tell her she can't do something and she'll do it just to prove you wrong. She's always wanted to do military and be in the suck, but she realizes that she is not "pre-wired" for it and therefore doesn't agree that women should be in this role.

Defending the home full of loved ones. Absolutely. There are different motivational factors there which affect a woman's thought processes; more emotion involved in driving the decisive factors.

Being able to go from "happy go lucky" to the most violently minded person you can at the drop of hat....simply goes against everything that makes up a woman's psychology. That's not to say that there aren't those who are straddling the line physically and therefore mentally as well, but they are very few and far between.

Disclaimer: I am not a professional psych-anything. I do however personally know several and have always researched it for personal interest and to help me professionally as well.

I would venture to guess a lot of the motivation to do with this movement is founded in the fact that women make decisions more through emotions than men. They typically feel the need to be a "part of the group" and feel "included." They are more prone to sympathy, and to be able to "connect" to others through their experiences and it is through all of this that their decisions are made. From my research, I would presume that it is likely due to all of this that they are driven to want to be in those roles; that they sympathize with their "comrades" and want to be "a part of the group" as a "noble warrior" rather than further downplayed as "just a woman" which can induce more negative feelings to further motivate them to prove it wrong.

This of course is speculation from what I've read and there is no published research into this specific topic that I'm aware of. There has been some psychological research going on in the Russian region of the world regarding women in combat, but if I'm not mistaken that research is also targeting a different aspect of it than what I'm talking about here (aftermath of women in combat.)

Also, there are numerous other factors which attribute to everyone's decision making processes as well. Here is a very general, high level article on some of what I've mentioned for anyone's interest:10 Psychological Gender Differences - ShaveMagazine.com

Thanks and I think you are 100 percent correct...My Husband also says I am tough as nails, but a hurt child breaks my heart. I see this a lot due to the fact I have many nieces who have been involved with idiots. I do come very emotional when people I love or care for are hurt. That is why I cannot carry. I make very emotional decisions and would not hesitate to shoot some of the people I come in contact with.

 

[iChokePeople]

That is why I cannot carry. I make very emotional decisions and would not hesitate to shoot some of the people I come in contact with.

ICP: 1
Kidd: 0

 

[the1kidd03]

ICP: 1
Kidd: 0

 

[Survivalcookie]

I never posted her weight, it's probably about 130ish, I've never asked. Her problem would be the same as a guy that weighs the same as her. I have another guy I work out with that is 145lbs and about 5% BF, he would have the same problems. If he or she cannot cut it, then neither need to continue. I would imagine those are issues that get worked out in their respective schools. If ANYONE cannot carry their fair share then they get cut.

Maybe someone else said they had a 100 pound wife or something...I believe there is a weight limit in the military. Also most of these programs say gain some weight before you start because you will lose 20-30 pounds during the training. I think you are missing the whole point here....the government will dumb down the program so woman can participate...there for making the special forces not so special.