Pence Losing Ground In Governors Race

[Timjoebillybob]

$750K to buy a state legislature seat over the underlying issue here and 'follow the money' is just buzzwords. Get f**king real.

And who exactly did that? For which one of our legislatures? And I stated it is rapidly becoming or already became a stupid buzz phrase. IMO more of the later especially when someone just throws it out without any backing information. And I am very real.

You just recently used that exact same tactic, throw out numbers without mentioning any specifics. ETA Was this supposed seat one of the authors or co authors of this bill?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Nope. I take them into account. Who fashioned, voted for, and paid for the original? Well I know who voted for it, which specific ones did it for the reasons you state? For your convenience I'll include a link to both rolls. Just in case you give an answer rather than buzz words.
https://iga.in.gov/documents/06d9e0a8
https://iga.in.gov/documents/9d42b26b

And follow the money? Is rapidly or already became just a stupid buzz phrase.

And you forgot to answer "How exactly was it not written in that manner?". For your convenience once again, in case you decide to give a factual answer.

$750K to buy a state legislature seat over the underlying issue here and 'follow the money' is just buzzwords. Get f**king real.

And who exactly did that? For which one of our legislatures? And I stated it is rapidly becoming or already became a stupid buzz phrase. IMO more of the later especially when someone just throws it out without any backing information. And I am very real.

You just recently used that exact same tactic, throw out numbers without mentioning any specifics. ETA Was this supposed seat one of the authors or co authors of this bill?

Tim, I recall a legislator being voted out (primaried, if I recall) and Sen. Jim Tomes bemoaning it after it happened. The guy that got hamstrung had a couple of big Indy law firms speaking against him in innuendo, (again, as I recall.) I do not, however, recall the man's name, only that he was a strong conservative voice and a reliable pro-gun rights vote. I am curious as well, as to his name, but I do recall the situation.

Both of you, however, please take a step back. This seems to be becoming personal between you. Respond to thoughts and facts, please, not to people. (specifically, I'm referring to "in case you decide to answer" and to "get f**king real": Both are inflammatory phrases.)

And because I so love doing it, I'mma make this the in-thread warning.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[wagyu52]

I'm done supporting any Democrat canadate, last one ran off to Champaign when he was told by the DNC. There is no longer room in the Democrat party for personal opinion, you believe as they do or your labeled a racist, bigot, homophobe, Bible thumping gun nut. No thanks. Besides that, the day after the primary's I saw a Gregg ad on TV for governor... Not even one damned day without seeing a political add.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Tim, I recall a legislator being voted out (primaried, if I recall) and Sen. Jim Tomes bemoaning it after it happened. The guy that got hamstrung had a couple of big Indy law firms speaking against him in innuendo, (again, as I recall.) I do not, however, recall the man's name, only that he was a strong conservative voice and a reliable pro-gun rights vote. I am curious as well, as to his name, but I do recall the situation.

Both of you, however, please take a step back. This seems to be becoming personal between you. Respond to thoughts and facts, please, not to people. (specifically, I'm referring to "in case you decide to answer" and to "get f**king real": Both are inflammatory phrases.)

And because I so love doing it, I'mma make this the in-thread warning.

Blessings,
Bill

The only authors (not co-) of the bill that could fit that description would be Sen. Scott Schneider who was elected the same year as Sen. Jim Tomes. The other two were Sens. Steele and Kruze. ETA Sen Tomes was one of the co-authors and I doubt he was referring to himself.

But during the primary he wasn't running against an incumbent, he technically was the incumbent. He was voted in to replace retiring Sen. Theresa Lubbers who retired in 2009 to take the Indiana Commissioner for Higher Education position. So technically he's been in the Sen a couple months longer than the good Sen Tomes.

Here is a bit of background.
Ogden on Politics: The Politics Behind the Schneider Senate District 30 Win

And I will take your advice, although nothing personal on my side. It just irks me a bit when someone throws out buzz words with nothing backing it up and insists it's true. Although I didn't take "get ****ing real" as inflammatory, I take it as along the lines of you must be joking. But that's just my opinion. And I will admit "in case you decide to answer" was meant to be a bit goading/inflammatory. But in my defense I was trying to get facts and thoughts not just buzz words.

And as a off the topic comment, there were a total of 16 authors and co-authors. The bill was for all intents an purposes 3 pages, did each one get a sentence and the main authors 2 or 3?

 

[Dead Duck]

 

[IndyDave1776]

It just irks me a bit when someone throws out buzz words with nothing backing it up and insists it's true.

I have some unfair advantages here as I was aware that something of the general nature was coming long before it came. John Waterman was never popular in Indianapolis on account of representing his constituents rather than the Chamber of Commerce (something to which I will return). The GOP leadership, as directed by the Chamber, in turn directed by two corporations based in Indiana were in reality strongly supporting the homosexual agenda while maintaining the illusion of conservative values.

The result of this situation is that the two corporations in question supplied initially $250K for use in the primary directly and indirectly supporting Eric Bassler. The Koch brothers for some reason which defies my understanding also jumped in with the eventual total reaching $750K for the primary. Please note that this race under normal conditions comes in less than $50K for the entire election cycle, not just the primary. The campaign consisted of using the incredible disparity in funding to saturate radio and television, and also blowing up people's mailboxes, with material raising a number of patently false accusations including that John was part of Obama's 'war on coal'. Strangely enough, this was not necessary given the size of the supermajority and the fact that there were only a couple of independent thinkers in the lot of them.

The GOP leadership had done its part in the redistricting process by removing southern Vigo and northern Knox and replacing them with Daviess, which is Bassler's home turf.

Back to the Chamber of Commerce...the MFIC there broadcast a really nasty and far from truthful letter to everyone on the mailing list, only after the primary to release the truth that John had an actual record of 93% agreement with the Chamber in actual votes as opposed to the 95% they assigned to Bassler based on a questionnaire.

Fast forward to the RFRA. It was unnecessarily couched in religion where it could have been handled in a far more politic manner, it could have been constructed in a manner to avoid the problems that were precipitated. Also significant is that the GOP, including and especially Pence, fielded the most inept defense of a piece of legislation in modern history. This was followed by a 'remedial' piece of legislation which did absolutely nothing for addressing the ostensible purpose of the law while for the first in the history of Indiana made homosexuals a protected class even if not to the extent of ethnic minorities. Please note the significance of the fact that Bassler, who was heavily funded with homosexual money, supported both RFRA 1.0 and RFRA 2.0, which, once again, was what the GOP leadership and its sponsors had been pushing since long before the primary which put Bassler in office.

Now, we have fantastic sums of money spent on an unnecessary seat apparently for the sole purpose of silencing opposition, a final piece of legislation one would expect from Democrats, and an incredible amount of dirty politics, all to further the elimination of office holders who actually represent their constituents so that the state GOP can cheerfully serve the same owners who want the same things regardless of which party, both of which they own, may happen to control the state.

Oh, and for the sake of full disclosure, this is close enough that I take it VERY personal.

 

[PistolBob]

How can anyone forget the runaway and hide democrats? Gregg hasn't got a chance.

Pence is here for another term.

 

[Bill of Rights]

IndyDave and TimJoe, thank you both for working with me here. I appreciate both of you taking the request to heart.

How can anyone forget the runaway and hide democrats? Gregg hasn't got a chance.

Pence is here for another term.

People can forget because the electorate has a short memory, collectively.

Example: I don't vote Democrat and have little use for them, however, while with you saying it, I clearly recall them running off to IL a couple of times, I did not recall them doing so without the reminder... and I think I am probably more politically active than most people. If I can forget it, or at least not have it at the forefront of my mind, John Q. Public isn't going to remember .

Gregg has a chance, especially if both the Dems and the RINOs get behind him or say "Pence must go" in the same vein as "anyone but Trump", knowing that "not Trump" is equivalent to "Hillary" or "Bernie"... which is not to say that Trump is not also co-equivalent.

Along the same lines, Pence is pro-gun rights in speeches, but I think his committment to our rights is nebulous and arbitrary at best. Even at that, though, his is more than Gregg's will ever be.

I really would love to have a candidate to vote FOR, instead of however many to vote against.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[KLB]

How can anyone forget the runaway and hide democrats? Gregg hasn't got a chance.

Pence is here for another term.

Well, the first time was very close. It wouldn't take much for it to swing the other way.

Party	Candidate	Votes	%	±%
	Republican	Mike Pence / Sue Ellspermann	1,264,877	49.67%	-8.35%
	Democratic	John R. Gregg / Vi Simpson	1,183,213	46.46%	+6.52%
	Libertarian	Rupert Boneham / Brad Klopfenstein	101,868	3.95%	+1.83%
	Write-in	Donnie Harold Harris / George Fish	21	0%	—
Margin of victory	81,664	3.20%	-14.61%

I know the unions are really pushing hard to get rid of Pence. There are a lot of houses with "Proud Union Home", "Fire Pence" and "Hire Gregg" signs in them.

Personally, I am on the fence right now. Pence has done little to earn my vote the last four years. On the other hand, I really hesitate to vote for anyone that has the backing of these unions like Gregg.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Fast forward to the RFRA. It was unnecessarily couched in religion where it could have been handled in a far more politic manner, it could have been constructed in a manner to avoid the problems that were precipitated. Also significant is that the GOP, including and especially Pence, fielded the most inept defense of a piece of legislation in modern history. This was followed by a 'remedial' piece of legislation which did absolutely nothing for addressing the ostensible purpose of the law while for the first in the history of Indiana made homosexuals a protected class even if not to the extent of ethnic minorities. Please note the significance of the fact that Bassler, who was heavily funded with homosexual money, supported both RFRA 1.0 and RFRA 2.0, which, once again, was what the GOP leadership and its sponsors had been pushing since long before the primary which put Bassler in office.

Oh, and for the sake of full disclosure, this is close enough that I take it VERY personal.

Okay I understand what you meant in the other thread about unneeded seat. And yes you may take it personal, I can understand that. But I believe BoR and I know myself when referencing that, meant that it was something personal between us, not that you take it personal.

Can you tell me how it could have been framed in a more "politic manner"? Yes I'm serious, this law was meant to duplicate the Fed RFRA but on the state level since SCOTUS ruled that it doesn't apply to the states. And also because of the recent at the time SCOTUS decision in the Hobby lobby et al case. And yes the defense of it was not handled in the best of manners, the GOP and Pence should have just stated "stick it". With perhaps an added comment that this law protects the Muslim barber that doesn't want to cut a woman's hair or the Muslim baker that refuses to make a cake with a picture of Mohamed or the baker that doesn't want to make a birthday cake with Happy Birthday Adolph Hitler or LGBT (of any religion) baker that refuses to make a cake celebrating the Westboro "baptist church" or the atheist baker that refuses to make a cake denouncing atheism. Or I could come up with a whole host of other reasons.

I'll take your word that Bassler supported it and the reason for that support, but what about all the others that did? Heck one of the co-authors (Jim Tomes) has somewhere around a 50% approval from the chamber of commerce. I don't know about the rest.

 

[jdmack79]

As a teacher that has to deal with the state's insane and illogical regulations on a daily basis, there's no way I will be voting for Pence. The governor and our state legislature continue to botch education policy. I'm not sure that I could vote for Gregg, but I will not support Pence. At this point the Governor's race may just be left blank on my ballot.

 

[gun_nut]

Once had a family reunion at Greg's house (used to be distantly related by marriage) - IMHO that guy isn't fit to run a lemonade stand let alone the state of Indiana....

 

[LPMan59]

Amazing how many gun owners here and elsewhere seem so willing to vote for people whose expressed purpose is tax the hell out of you, take your guns and tell you to like it.

 

[Dead Duck]

Once had a family reunion at Greg's house (used to be distantly related by marriage) - IMHO that guy isn't fit to run a lemonade stand let alone the state of Indiana....

Did you pee in his catbox?
That's one of my favorites.

 

[halfmileharry]

Amazing how many gun owners here and elsewhere seem so willing to vote for people whose expressed purpose is tax the hell out of you, take your guns and tell you to like it.

I have trouble understanding it as well.

 

[mrjarrell]

Amazing how many gun owners here and elsewhere seem so willing to vote for people whose expressed purpose is tax the hell out of you, take your guns and tell you to like it.

Unless the makeup of the legislature were to change dramatically, none of those are even on the radar. A democrat governor with a republican legislature would be gridlocked on many issues and I can certainly live with that. Plus a dem governor would veto all their social issues BS. We could certainly do with some of that. Might force both sides to grow the **** up, for once. That said, I'll still be voting for the LP candidate. He's better than both the douche or the turd.

 

[LPMan59]

Unless the makeup of the legislature were to change dramatically, none of those are even on the radar. A democrat governor with a republican legislature would be gridlocked on many issues and I can certainly live with that. Plus a dem governor would veto all their social issues BS. We could certainly do with some of that. Might force both sides to grow the **** up, for once. That said, I'll still be voting for the LP candidate. He's better than both the douche or the turd.

voting third party maybe. Voting for a democrat? Not gonna do it. I'm never gonna get constitutional carry or lower taxes. Probably ain't getting those thing anyways, but I am practically assured to get didly squat from the left.

i hear ya on the social issue stuff.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

As a teacher that has to deal with the state's insane and illogical regulations on a daily basis, there's no way I will be voting for Pence. The governor and our state legislature continue to botch education policy. I'm not sure that I could vote for Gregg, but I will not support Pence. At this point the Governor's race may just be left blank on my ballot.

I thought policy and regulations were at least for the most part set by the state board of education? Or whatever it's called. Not the legislature or the Gov.

 

[jdmack79]

I thought policy and regulations were at least for the most part set by the state board of education? Or whatever it's called. Not the legislature or the Gov.

There is a limited amount of policy coming from the board of Ed, but the vast majority (and the worst) is coming from the legislature.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Okay I understand what you meant in the other thread about unneeded seat. And yes you may take it personal, I can understand that. But I believe BoR and I know myself when referencing that, meant that it was something personal between us, not that you take it personal.

Can you tell me how it could have been framed in a more "politic manner"? Yes I'm serious, this law was meant to duplicate the Fed RFRA but on the state level since SCOTUS ruled that it doesn't apply to the states. And also because of the recent at the time SCOTUS decision in the Hobby lobby et al case. And yes the defense of it was not handled in the best of manners, the GOP and Pence should have just stated "stick it". With perhaps an added comment that this law protects the Muslim barber that doesn't want to cut a woman's hair or the Muslim baker that refuses to make a cake with a picture of Mohamed or the baker that doesn't want to make a birthday cake with Happy Birthday Adolph Hitler or LGBT (of any religion) baker that refuses to make a cake celebrating the Westboro "baptist church" or the atheist baker that refuses to make a cake denouncing atheism. Or I could come up with a whole host of other reasons.

I'll take your word that Bassler supported it and the reason for that support, but what about all the others that did? Heck one of the co-authors (Jim Tomes) has somewhere around a 50% approval from the chamber of commerce. I don't know about the rest.

As I see it, the political climate has changed dramatically since the Federal RFRA of some 20 years ago. It would have been pretty simple to phrase it in a way as to protect any and all from being forced to violate their convictions without presenting it as a religious crusade. I am left to choose between supposing that the GOP leadership is too unbelievably stupid to have seen a potential problem or that they saw it and capitalized on it (especially given that I was already aware of planning that would work with this). None of the problems at hand require the establishment of yet another protected class. I could see Tomes supporting it for genuine reasons. Not so much with some others. All said and done, I would expect much more of professional politicians than I would myself, so if I can see this, I would have expected at least that much from professionals.

Of course, the other problem is the apparent dishonesty, specifically that of the GOP presenting its actions in such a way as to make themselves look like a pack of Jesuits while in reality doing the exact opposite.