Pence for Governor '12!!!

[Garb]

I could choose to stay in the closet and lie, I could choose to stay in my house and never leave. I could choose not to talk about things like this on a message boards with social conservatives. Those are the choices, the fact of who I am is not. I do not feel like a victim! Genetics, and my parents gifted me with a physical presence, and a brain that ensure for the most part that I am fine. I fight for everyone else that is a victim, and there are many. "Special classes" when you can guarantee that everyone is protected equally under the law we can talk about this again. Trust me I don't want special classes.

Hate crimes legislation is all about a victim mentality. And last time I checked, everyone does have equal protection under the law. That being said, I'm not voting for Mike Pence.

 

[Garb]

Specifics please.

Hate me fine. Try to kill me, or convince others to do it because I am gay--not fine. It's the inequities in the current execution of the law that makes this law so important.

So is it more ok for me to kill you or convince others to do so because you have a hairy ass? I don't see a difference.

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

Specifics please.

Hate me fine. Try to kill me, or convince others to do it because I am gay--not fine. It's the inequities in the current execution of the law that makes this law so important.

Hate me fine. Check.

Try to kill me, or convince others to do it ... Attempted muder and conspiracy to commit murder are both already crimes. Check.

because I am gay ... Victimhood. Pure victimhood. Why someone would want to kill or convince others to kill you is irrelevent. It only serve to inflate a feeling of normalcy and self worth where it is lacking. Why is it hard to understand about that?

 

[awatarius]

So is it more ok for me to kill you or convince others to do so because you have a hairy ass? I don't see a difference.

OMG here... let me spell it out I can't get more specific than this.

THERE WAS A RASH OF CRIMES... GAY BASHING, hate, discrimination, bullying, and suicides. NOT BECAUSE of a hairy ass!! BECAUSE local govts, and local communities were turning a blind eye. This removes this from the local authority and makes it a federal crime!! The local authorities don't prosecute or won't do anything? The fed WILL all you have to do is a make a phone call! THATS what I care about.


Im sorry you folks don't agree with me. BUT THATS why I think like I do.

 

[awatarius]

normalcy and self worth where it is lacking.

You are the problem

 

[SemperFiUSMC]

OMG here... let me spell it out I can't get more specific than this.

THERE WAS A RASH OF CRIMES... GAY BASHING, hate, discrimination, bullying, and suicides. NOT BECAUSE of a hairy ass!! BECAUSE local govts, and local communities were turning a blind eye. This removes this from the local authority and makes it a federal crime!! The local authorities don't prosecute or won't do anything? The fed WILL all you have to do is a make a phone call! THATS what I care about.


Im sorry you folks don't agree with me. BUT THATS why I think like I do.

So we are all supposed to feel richer because the federal government chose to ignore its Constitutional mandates and stomp on state sovereignty? Total fail.

 

[Garb]

OMG here... let me spell it out I can't get more specific than this.

THERE WAS A RASH OF CRIMES... GAY BASHING, hate, discrimination, bullying, and suicides. NOT BECAUSE of a hairy ass!! BECAUSE local govts, and local communities were turning a blind eye. This removes this from the local authority and makes it a federal crime!! The local authorities don't prosecute or won't do anything? The fed WILL all you have to do is a make a phone call! THATS what I care about.


Im sorry you folks don't agree with me. BUT THATS why I think like I do.

So assault isn't against federal law as well? Could the victim not consult a lawyer and file a criminal suit? If the local authorities aren't doing their jobs they can spend a lot of time in a federal prison as far as I'm concerned. What someone is thinking when they're kicking the s*** out of you should have no bearing on their sentence.

 

[orange]

Yesterday I would've argued against awatarius, now I thought about it a while, did some reading, today I agree with him.

Hate crime legislation has two clear benefits, the way I see it. First, sends a message; society is changing, this class of people is now considered people and will be treated accordingly, so get with the program. Second, overrules any localities where a crime is not prosecuted because the victim happens to be gay, or black, or whatever. Compare with the institutionalized racism of post-Civil War south, where the local sheriff and judges put on white robes and gleefully went out with the nooses and burning crosses..and where were the victims supposed to turn then?

The double standard does bother me however. Three black men attacked me once for being white in the wrong part of town. This never made it as far as arrests and the courthouse but if it had, I don't believe hate crime would've ever come up. Now, had I grabbed two other white guys and set upon some random black dude... need I go on?
That part I have a problem with. That does seem to create a second, 'more protected' class of citizenry. If motivation is to be considered let it be considered regardless of the races or orientations involved.

By the way, all of you talking about some Pence fellow, quit trying to derail the thread.

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

I've already told you how to fix this Matthew...

Shine the light of publicity on it and the injustice will not stand.... I don't see one person here who's advocated that you be harmed for who you are. (some smartass will prove me wrong - just watch...) Most all of them (myself included) though, believe that hate legislation is overreaching and is the wrong approach... It's remarkably similar to quotas used in Affirmative Action. Very well intentioned - as is hate legislation... but the road to Hell is paved with such good intentions. These things PROMOTE class/race/group warfare. They do not HEAL it. Reverse injustice IS STILL INJUSTICE.

You don't need hate legislation to insure that injustice does not happen. All hate legislation does is further single the protected group(s) out. You will find no one that argues harder than I do for your right to do what you please and live your life how you see fit. Hate legislation goes beyond that. It puts your rights above mine. In the act of trying to bring justice, IT IS, INJUSTICE in action... Like a lot of liberal ideas, it FEELS good. Yet it does not achieve the desired result in the end.

I believe you when you say you simply want justice, and that you are not after special treatment. If that is indeed your desire, then there are better ways of getting there. And oddly enough, the solution you tout will NOT get you there in the long run - in spite of how warm and fuzzy it makes you feel.

Oh, btw, who is Mike Pence? Is he related to John Galt??

 

[Expat]

Specifics please.

Hate me fine. Try to kill me, or convince others to do it because I am gay--not fine. It's the inequities in the current execution of the law that makes this law so important.

In my town they have been trying to pass ordinances to prevent discrimination against homosexuals on housing and employment. Such laws would infringe on my rights.

 

[Garb]

In my town they have been trying to pass ordinances to prevent discrimination against homosexuals on housing and employment. Such laws would infringe on my rights.

Maybe we can get together sometime... then I'll bet you can get that house and job you've been wanting.

 

[awatarius]

I've already told you how to fix this Matthew...

Shine the light of publicity on it and the injustice will not stand.... I don't see one person here who's advocated that you be harmed for who you are. (some smartass will prove me wrong - just watch...) Most all of them (myself included) though, believe that hate legislation is overreaching and is the wrong approach... It's remarkably similar to quotas used in Affirmative Action. Very well intentioned - as is hate legislation... but the road to Hell is paved with such good intentions. These things PROMOTE class/race/group warfare. They do not HEAL it. Reverse injustice IS STILL INJUSTICE.

You don't need hate legislation to insure that injustice does not happen. All hate legislation does is further single the protected group(s) out. You will find no one that argues harder than I do for your right to do what you please and live your life how you see fit. Hate legislation goes beyond that. It puts your rights above mine. In the act of trying to bring justice, IT IS, INJUSTICE in action... Like a lot of liberal ideas, it FEELS good. Yet it does not achieve the desired result in the end.

I believe you when you say you simply want justice, and that you are not after special treatment. If that is indeed your desire, then there are better ways of getting there. And oddly enough, the solution you tout will NOT get you there in the long run - in spite of how warm and fuzzy it makes you feel.

Oh, btw, who is Mike Pence? Is he related to John Galt??

I commend you again sir! I really really like how you can disagree with me, and yet do so in a non offensive or very rude way. Your point is well stated, I disagree but in premise we agree on an end result. Thank you!!!

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[WWIIIDefender]

What would gunny say?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdLruOIKmA[/ame]

Now thats funny, but seriously if someone beats you up and the law isn't working for you. Post it up and I am sure most of us will try and help.

 

[awatarius]

What would gunny say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdLruOIKmA

Now thats funny, but seriously if someone beats you up and the law isn't working for you. Post it up and I am sure most of us will try and help.

That guy is my hero.

 

[WWIIIDefender]

Besides since you claim to not be a libtard, then you will agree that the citizens of this country are loosing too many of our rights as it is. Working to gether will stop hate crimes not legislation.

 

[drobpk]

I started the Tea Party in our county, with my own time and money, and built it up into a decent little group, and yes, I will throw all of my weight behind Mike Pence. There is no such thing as the "perfect" candidate out there, and until we quit destroying everyone that throws their hat in the ring because they aren't the perfect candidate, we will continue to get what we get.
Ask yourself this, would YOU, as a candidate, want to go through the venom that you see on even just this board, let alone face the general public?

A great concept TEA = Taxed Enough Already - Thanks for your work on this. And, I think a guy like Mike Pence will be just fine under all the scrutiny he will receive. He will be a great successor to Mitch.

 

[hooky]

I may vote for Pence. Still a long way to go and a lot more to learn between now and then though.

On the other thing....

Hate crime status simply befuddles me. Since I'm straight, society thinks it's now more acceptable to assault or kill me? Because a sentence that is more lenient against my attackers, than the attackers of a gay man is implying that very thing. As was said earlier, a crime is a crime. No one is beaten, killed or harassed out of love.

 

[japartridge]

Because societies in some circles have said it's ok. Because everyone knows it's not ok to thump someone unless... see it's institutionalized. Some parents with the way they talk to their kids make it more ok. That is very much part of it. It's the intent, the malice, and it's the whole idea that is being legislated against. It's a reminder and one we need clearly with all the suicides, deaths, bullying, and rash of issues the last few years.

Thanks,
Matthew

I find your logic flawed as well, I personally have nothing against any one group... gay, straight, bi, black, white, whatever, I don't care... do your job, be a decent human being and stay outta my way. There is no reason to institute what boils down to preferential treatment... can we say "All men are created equal". there is no difference if I beat the **** out of a gay man or a straight man, I still beat the hell outta someone, I should be sentenced the same either way.

No offense, but the fact that you are gay shouldn't play a part at all in how a person is sentenced if they beat you up. I don't understand how any minority would want to be even further segregated by having preferential protection under the law.

just my

 

[awatarius]

I find your logic flawed as well, I personally have nothing against any one group... gay, straight, bi, black, white, whatever, I don't care... do your job, be a decent human being and stay outta my way. There is no reason to institute what boils down to preferential treatment... can we say "All men are created equal". there is no difference if I beat the **** out of a gay man or a straight man, I still beat the hell outta someone, I should be sentenced the same either way.

No offense, but the fact that you are gay shouldn't play a part at all in how a person is sentenced if they beat you up. I don't understand how any minority would want to be even further segregated by having preferential protection under the law.

just my

They don't... that's what I keep hammering away at here. It has nothing to do with wanting to feel special, or being treated special. It has everything to do with not seeing your community get beat up and nobody doing anything about it (this was happening a lot). It has everything to do with stopping local authorities and small communities from turning a blind eye. It guarantees that someone will pay attention to the guy strapped to the fence, and beaten for hours, or the gay kid in gym that gets sexually tortured. Those things happen, and they get ignored. Now they don't. Someday when society matures we won't need the law. A few people made points like working with your community to fix it, and not legislating. I can agree with that. I can't agree with what was the status quo.

 

[nate1865]

Hate crimes legislation makes special classes of citizens with more protection than others.

If you think Pence is a big government conservative you're crazy.

Feel free to disagree with him on his policies but leave the pejoratives at home.