Organizing an OC event in Indy! Stand up for your Rights!

[dburkhead]

Maybe those that don't carry a long gun can carry the signs. It'll be hard to carry a rifle and a sign.

Have to agree here (and was about to make a comment along that line myself before I saw your post). Even with a slung rifle, you really need one hand to keep close control of it. You don't want even a hint of the muzzle sweeping anybody because sure as taxes, somebody would get a picture of it and the headlines would read "gun nut points rifle at...." So one hand to control the rifle, another to hold the sign, then if anything slips or shifts or needs to be adjusted, you're out of hands unless you either let go of the rifle/sling or drop the sign. But then you'd have to pick up the sign and that means bending over (and where is the muzzle pointed then?), or stooping (possibly cracking the muzzle into the pavement) to pick it up. And the video on the 11:00 news "gun nut thinks he's the Keystone Cops."

Long arm or sign, not both. That's my advice.

 

[SavageEagle]

Might want to be careful here. If it's a public place, I do not believe you do have that right. Renting a venue is one thing--and you do have an entirely legitimate right to exclude attendance at such a venue from anyone--but a "public place" is just that, public. A group of people cannot legitimately ask someone else to leave a public place because they don't like his behavior. Now, illegal or unsafe ("reckless endangerment" unsafe) behavior is a different matter and that's where having LEOs on hand comes in really handy. You pretty much answered for me here. If you are being unsafe or causing problems, that would be disturbing the peace and beyond any rights you have regardless of anything else. That's why I hope it doesn't go that far. By refusing to leave you will only hurt the cause and the event and no one wants to see that.

On the subject that others have brought up about LTCH, technically one isn't needed for long arms, but if there is a school within 1000 ft of the path of the march, one runs afoul of the Federal "gun free school zone" law. Guns are verboten within 1000 ft of a school except in certain, specific, cases (unloaded and locked in the trunk of a motor vehicle, on private property not part of the school, authorized by the school, that sort of thing). The only exception that would apply to a march on public thoroughfares is being in possession of a firearms carry license good in the State, for us, that's a LTCH. I know it's not REQUIRED, but as I said, it proves you are legal and safety of everyone involved and those who are not are my main concern. Proving you are legal to carry/possess a firearm is all I care about with this issue. If you don't have a LTCH, I want some kind of proof you are not "illegally" handling a firearm. I hope you all understand and feel the same way.

Another thing to consider is what laws and ordinances Indiana and Indianapolis might have about large public gatherings and "parades." These are usually justified on grounds of safety, obstructing traffic, etc. (The right to peaceably assemble is not generally interpreted to mean that one can use any public venue that catches one's fancy at any given time.) I searched the ordinances for Indy and laws in the IC and found none that show this is illegal in any way. I can post the link to the Indy ordinances if you would like to look for yourself or if anyone is a lawyer or has one on call that can show me where this is not within our rights. As far as I"m concerned, this is a group of people walking down the sidewalks, legally carrying their firearms.

We need to make sure that we are scrupulous in obeying the law. There can not be even the appearance of impropriety or the whole thing could backfire badly. Better to take a bit more time and do it right than to rush and have something go wrong, possibly badly wrong.

Absolutely agree. That's why I'm trying everything I can to make sure we are legal, legit, and within our rights. I wouldn't do this if I thought we were going to hurt the cause. You would be a big asset to this idea and hope you can help in the planning phase.

 

[SavageEagle]

Have to agree here (and was about to make a comment along that line myself before I saw your post). Even with a slung rifle, you really need one hand to keep close control of it. You don't want even a hint of the muzzle sweeping anybody because sure as taxes, somebody would get a picture of it and the headlines would read "gun nut points rifle at...." So one hand to control the rifle, another to hold the sign, then if anything slips or shifts or needs to be adjusted, you're out of hands unless you either let go of the rifle/sling or drop the sign. But then you'd have to pick up the sign and that means bending over (and where is the muzzle pointed then?), or stooping (possibly cracking the muzzle into the pavement) to pick it up. And the video on the 11:00 news "gun nut thinks he's the Keystone Cops."

Long arm or sign, not both. That's my advice.

Mine as well. Thank you for articulating that better than I could have ever done!

 

[dburkhead]

Thanks but no! You nor anyone else, (without statutory authority) will be checking my "papers". What you are starting has already been started. No permission slip no carry! The fact that you need no permission slip in this state to carry a long gun, must be lost on you. You actually sound like those you are protesting, after all, they only want reasonable measures of gun control.

Are you absolutely certain that you'll be legal to carry that rifle or shotgun through the entire route of the march? The big one is the 1000 foot (that's close to a quarter mile) school zone exclusion.

And do you really think the attitude you are showing here is really helpful to the cause of preserving and restoring RKBA? If you come across that confrontationally at the event you can do a lot more harm than good.

For perspective, earlier this year Ryan attempted to get a March idea started. A lot of people, myself included, had serious reservations because he came across quite confrontationally at the time and we were quite worried about how any such event would actually come off. He's matured a lot since then.

There are times to be confrontational. I'm sure you'll find a number of people on this forum that can vouch that I'm quite capable of it. But when you're trying to have a positive impact and present a "good face" to the world is not that time.

 

[dburkhead]

Mine as well. Thank you for articulating that better than I could have ever done!

I was going to rep you for the "sign or long arm, but not both" but I have to share the love first.

 

[henktermaat]

Thanks but no! You nor anyone else, (without statutory authority) will be checking my "papers". What you are starting has already been started. No permission slip no carry! The fact that you need no permission slip in this state to carry a long gun, must be lost on you. You actually sound like those you are protesting, after all, they only want reasonable measures of gun control.

I think that the reasoning behind this self-limiting choice has been presented in a clear manner. I get it...

There's a huge difference in the wisdom of self-control vs. the government taking away our God-given rights.

Sounds like an organized event is just not for you. No worries though. It's OK to stay home on this one. We'll report back.

 

[SavageEagle]

Thanks. I've learned a lot since last time. I've gone over my boiling point one too many times by reading about all the government intrusion and have finally learned to contain myself as my boiling point has stretched itself so that it takes more than mear words to set me off.

 

[ATF Consumer]

dburkhead, I'm glad you are on this thread making sense of all of this and bringing up many concerns and issues... for all of the great feedback.

 

[henktermaat]

We should get SirRealism involved...

 

[SavageEagle]

Please keep the arguements out of this thread. This is not the place or the time to implode on each other. I don't want to have the moderators involved here. I can only imagine what their thoughts are on this.

I am still waiting to hear from Fenway on whether or not we should/could wear INGO gear at this march. If he says no, INGO has no place at the march. Just know this is not an INGO event. Not unless he wants it to be one. I would gladly have INGO sponsor us, but it's not my call. I'm sure if we do this right, then the next time around we just might get that blessing. For now though, I'd be content with this just being a grassroots flash rally with no sponsors. Concerned citizens.

 

[dburkhead]

Thanks. I've learned a lot since last time. I've gone over my boiling point one too many times by reading about all the government intrusion and have finally learned to contain myself as my boiling point has stretched itself so that it takes more than mear words to set me off.

You've also learned to take criticism better. Never underestimate how important that is. One of the problems last time was the issues and problems I brought up were meant to help you but at the time you didn't seem to "get" that. You do now.

I don't know law (as a lawyer knows law), but I have a bit of familiarity with bureaucracies and organizations and I have some small skill with the English language, which skills I am certainly willing to bring to the cause.

 

[SavageEagle]

Last time I was too upset and should never have started it. This time my wife isn't too happy because she think it'll take ALL my time. I assured her it wouldn't but that it will take up a good portion. She said ok, but the first time I start ignoring her there'll be trouble. I ignore her enough already I guess...

I just want this to go smoothly and go right. I also want this to be my redeeming chance as well.

 

[Vigilant]

Are you absolutely certain that you'll be legal to carry that rifle or shotgun through the entire route of the march?Pacer Academy in Union Station is a school, and the only one I can find in the immediate area, so 1000ft from there no problem. The big one is the 1000 foot (that's close to a quarter mile) school zone exclusion.

And do you really think the attitude you are showing here is really helpful to the cause of preserving and restoring RKBA?Most probably not, that's why I will not attend, I voiced my opinion and thoughts on the matter, you feel different. No problem. If you come across that confrontationally at the event you can do a lot more harm than good.

For perspective, earlier this year Ryan attempted to get a March idea started. A lot of people, myself included, had serious reservations because he came across quite confrontationally at the time and we were quite worried about how any such event would actually come off. He's matured a lot since then.

There are times to be confrontational. I'm sure you'll find a number of people on this forum that can vouch that I'm quite capable of it. But when you're trying to have a positive impact and present a "good face" to the world is not that time.It seems to me that the only "good face" to be shown is the faces with state permission slips. I have an LTCH, but I do not agree with it, nor do I agree with the restrictions he is TRYING to impose. Simple enough I won't go, no panties in a bunch when I refuse to submit my papers.

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I have finally made it all the way through the thread. Wow. It sounds like we have some legs under this. I will not be able to attend a planning meeting as work has been all consuming and looks to be the rest of the year. I get an occasional Sunday off but since I'm a 3rd shifter Saturday's work best. I work in Fort Wayne so it might be possible for me to attend a last minute type of thing and skip dinner (that sux) and make it to work. With enough advance notice I can get a day off. If the planets align, I'm in. I want to thank everyone who has added good ideas already and I encourage everyone to offer up more even if you don't plan to attend. If we have members who don't feel comfortable carrying, come join us anyway and bring a sign or a camera.

 

[SavageEagle]

I don't agree with having to have a LTCH either. But like you, I submit and have it so that I can protect my family and those around me. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but I can't please everyone. Fortunately, I can do my best to keep everyone safe, legal, and without incident. That's why I'm asking for proof you are not a felon.

I appreciate your interest and your feedback. Most importantly, I appreciate you not trying to make a scene here or at the March. I would have liked to seen you come with us, but you made your choice and I respect that.

 

[SavageEagle]

I have finally made it all the way through the thread. Wow. It sounds like we have some legs under this. I will not be able to attend a planning meeting as work has been all consuming and looks to be the rest of the year. I get an occasional Sunday off but since I'm a 3rd shifter Saturday's work best. I work in Fort Wayne so it might be possible for me to attend a last minute type of thing and skip dinner (that sux) and make it to work. With enough advance notice I can get a day off. If the planets align, I'm in. I want to thank everyone who has added good ideas already and I encourage everyone to offer up more even if you don't plan to attend. If we have members who don't feel comfortable carrying, come join us anyway and bring a sign or a camera.

Yes, please. It would be very helpful.

I plan on giving people plenty of notice to request time off or to come in late/leave early if need be. Most places require 2 weeks notice so it'll be no earlier than 3 weeks from now for sure. I want this done right and that means hammering out all the details first.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Ok for those of us who have never hiked around with a slung up AR and a sidearm, what suggestions would those who have, have to offer? I'm at work so I can't try it out but I'm guessing the rifle could interfere with the sidearm depending on carry style. Since we are still weeks out I will get a chance to perfect this but recommendations are appreciated. I normally carry my sidearm at 3 o'clock and I am right handed.

 

[SavageEagle]

Ok for those of us who have never hiked around with a slung up AR and a sidearm, what suggestions would those who have, have to offer? I'm at work so I can't try it out but I'm guessing the rifle could interfere with the sidearm depending on carry style. Since we are still weeks out I will get a chance to perfect this but recommendations are appreciated. I normally carry my sidearm at 3 o'clock and I am right handed.

If you watch the guy in the video from AZ, that's how I'd suggest with a normal 2 point sling. For other types of slings or a better way to carry, I'd love to hear it.

As far as pistol carry, that's how I carry too. 3 o'clock. I considered carrying both my Baby Eagle AND my Glock, but I figured that'd be a little overboard!

I will say that if you sling your rifle on the same side that your pistol is on, you'll notice that they will make contact while walking. So for those of us carrying both a pistol and slinging a rifle, I'd love to hear some good suggestions as well.

I do like the idea of muzzle down, but if you're right handed and you sling your rifle on your left side, it makes more sense to sling it with the muzzle up. This is the confuzing part. To me at least.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I have a Blackhawk SWIFT Sling. It is a 3 point sling and highly configurable. We have a 1500 gun show coming up so I could add a sling if need be.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I want to come to this and very likely can make it almost no matter what the time or day at the moment. That may change I think I'll have a new job soon. I'll get you an email on the way SE.