Open act of civil disobedience in DC on July 4th....

[Hop]

I think a better strategy here would be to take over the bridge with a 1000 rifleman and stand on the border with DC. Rotate some people up and down the border line. Guage reaction from DC. I wouldn't cross over into "occupied territory" with 999 rifleman unless I had absolutely nothing to loose.

edit - how can the courts force Chicago / IL into issuing carry permits to people outside their homes and the same not be forced upon DC? Is it because IL didn't go to SCOTUS and Heller did?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

If any people had potential grounds to go to DC with guns, it was the African-Americans. However, MLK, came with arguments and speeches, not guns. Instead the Civil Rights Movement argued, petitioned, and changed the culture to produced the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and a tremendous swing in the culture.

Change the culture, change the world.

This is a disagreement with tactics, not strategic goals. I believe our efforts will be more productive elsewhere.

MLK did bring guns in a sense though, through Malcolm X. In an interview he stated something along the lines of that Malcolm X forced them to deal with him. To paraphrase, they had to deal with the reasonable black man because of the unreasonable armed black man.

 

[rvb]

With respect, I disagree.

While there are grounds for cynicism there is also a battle for the culture. Let's look at at another civil rights struggle, the struggle of African-Americans.

If any people had potential grounds to go to DC with guns, it was the African-Americans. However, MLK, came with arguments and speeches, not guns. Instead the Civil Rights Movement argued, petitioned, and changed the culture to produced the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 and a tremendous swing in the culture.

Change the culture, change the world.

This is a disagreement with tactics, not strategic goals. I believe our efforts will be more productive elsewhere.

I have to agree, Kirk.

It's easy to see things as very bleak, especially when we read about potential gun bans and confiscation and ammo shortages, etc daily on the internet. But the momentum is in OUR favor. We are, on the whole, winning via the "process" our government is based on.

The original AWB sunsetted. Carry laws have become the norm around the country. Heller was significant. We stopped the AWB and mag limits and UBCs. Yes the fight is significant and on-going, but it's not "us" on the ropes, swinging for the fences (if I may mix analogies...). I think what we are seeing is the pendulum changing directions. Maybe in a couple years w/ different leadership in DC, we could even see relaxation on some current laws.

There are, of course, some moments of "1 step backwards" to get our "two steps forward." These examples include recent NY and CT and AZ laws. But the court battles haven't even started there.

There may be a time such a demonstration, and the confrontation it may bring, is needed. But IMO we aren't there yet. The NRA, phone calls to DC, letters, ARE working.

The point you make about culture is true. The majority already don't agree with more gun control, or it would have passed in a (D) controlled senate, espcially following the tragedies. I think culture change starts with the media. Media sets the tone for the "culture." I'm not just talking MSNBC, but MTV. And it's unfortunate Duck Dynasty and Sons of Guns set the "image" portrayed of gun owners. We need more shows like Top Shot that show the professionalism and competitiveness.



-rvb

 

[BogWalker]

Let's just all hope this doesn't end in blood. How many people do they have marked as attending as of yet?

 

[GunnerDan]

Let's just all hope this doesn't end in blood. How many people do they have marked as attending as of yet?

Why not? Maybe then the sheeple will start to understand how tyrannical the federal government has really become. I mean it seems like they have forgotten about Kent State, Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge, etc, etc, etc...

Gunner

 

[BogWalker]

Why not? Maybe then the sheeple will start to understand how tyrannical the federal government has really become. I mean it seems like they have forgotten about Kent State, Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge, etc, etc, etc...

Gunner

Because the government owns far more media outlets than we do. The sheeple will be told that guns need to be banned so the "terrorists" (as they will call them) that shot up DC won't be able to get more guns. They will eat up every word of it, just like they did at Kent State, Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge, etc, etc, etc...

 

[indykid]

This reminds me of an event that is celebrated on July 14th in France. The storming of the Bastille led to the French revolution if I am not mistaken, which turned France into a freer society.

Only those storming the Bastille had unloaded weapons because the powder and balls were stored in the building they were storming!

While there was a lot of blood shed, it got the French off their duffs to fight for freedom.

I hope this proposed march on DC doesn't turn out like what happened in France and stays a bloodless march, but I hope if they do march, the final result is the same and our government goes back to the basics that this great country was founded on.

 

[mrjarrell]

Looks like the DC po-po have already got their backs up and are planning on acting against any marchers.

“If you’re coming here to protest government policy, great,” Lanier said Tuesday on her monthly appearance on NewsChannel 8, reacting to the group’s plan to cross the Potomac River from Arlington National Cemetery. “If you’re coming here to break the law, we’ll take action.”
Lanier added, “There’s a pretty good chance we’ll meet them on the D.C. side of the bridge.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...2-aa9e-a02b765ff0ea_story.html?wpisrc=nl_buzz

 

[Sgtusmc]

...with LRADs ready for action I suppose. Bring ear protection.

 

[GunnerDan]

...with LRADs ready for action I suppose. Bring ear protection.

Sounds like something the tyrants will do, use LRAD's against subjects... I mean citizens.

Gunner

 

[Sgtusmc]

Sounds like something the tyrants will do, use LRAD's against subjects... I mean citizens.

Gunner

Is the route posted somewhere? I don't do Facebook, so I'm not allowed to see what is posted there. I'm guessing everything will come to a head on the DC bridge.

First level of deterrence will be LRAD, second level will be CS, third level will be opening a can of surströmming

Must have in ear hearing protection plus hearing protection muffs to defeat the LRAD. Must have gas mask to defeat the CS. Your on your own to man up to the surströmming.

Lets just hope that they don't have M2s posted at the ready. A bridge is the worst bottle neck of all. Has there ever been a civil disobedience march that incorporated planned flanking routes, waterborne ops, etc?

 

[gunowner930]

This proposed march is NOT an act of 'civil disobedience', by any measure. It's an act of breaking the law and creating an armed confrontation between lawbreakers and Police, and possibly the National Guard. This leaves the D.C. Police, etc. NO option other than meeting Kokesh's group with a fully armed defense.This proposal would ONLY benefit Obama, Feinstein, and the gun-grabbers.

I agree, this could get extremely ugly and be very bad for gun owners. If Kokesh gets thousands of armed men and follows through and this thing turns hot, what happens after the blood bath? Massive Federal clampdown? Further division of the country? Gun grabs in anti-gun areas? Or worse.

 

[apfroggy0408]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mCvrdDHbj0

Kokesh responds to misconceptions.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You know by writing checks and contacting our elected officials that we stopped Toomey-Manchin, right?

and got the suppressor for hunting bill passed.
and got the Clinton AWB to sunset
and has gotten multiple states a handgun license, or expanded where they can carry, and expanded reciprocity between states
and defeated Feinstein's new AWB/magazine ban


No, I have to agree with Kirk from simple evidence. Gun rights have expanded more than they've contracted and if anyone can deny the political clout of the NRA, well, you just aren't paying attention. The system DOES work when enough people care.

 

[Litlratt]

I disagree with this proposed march.

Momentum has shifted from the emotional gun control advocates to the logical gun control opponents.
Why provide an opportunity to shift it back again? The proposed legislation in the Senate isn't dead, Reid is merely waiting for momentum to shift back in their direction before exercising his right to bring that legislation back to the floor.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The proposed legislation in the Senate isn't dead, Reid is merely waiting for momentum to shift back in their direction before exercising his right to bring that legislation back to the floor.

Reid isn't the driving force, never has been, and has stated its a waste of time and resources that he'd rather spend on other issues. If anything, he's done his best to shut it down because he knows he's in a pinch between what he's voted for in the past and what the Democrat party leadership wants. Despite comments to the contrary here, he knows that a vote for gun control is a vote against his own reelection and has done everything he could to make sure he never had to make the vote one way or the other.

Reid voted *against* the Clinton AWB in '92 and in '04. He was also instrumental in getting a ban on certain types of data collection on gun owners by the gov't via the healthcare act in 2010. Hardly sounds like a gun grabber Feinstein follower to me. If anything, he's the best friend we have in the Democratic party.

He's under a ton of pressure from his party leaders, and if we paint him as just another anti-gun Democrat than it makes it easier and easier for him to give in to that pressure and side with his party.

 

[Litlratt]

I don't disagree with that, but my understanding is that Reid is the only one who can bring it back to the floor and it was Reid who changed his vote which allows that to happen.

 

[japartridge]

I am very conflicted on this issue. On one hand I fully agree with what they are doing and believe we should all be heading to DC, on the other hand it could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back and ignites a very, very, bloody revolution.

I would ask Kirk and others, when is the right time for this kind of action? What has to happen before we all exercise our rights?

To those that are saying that writing letters and phone calls do nothing, how do you explain the complete and total smack-down of the recent AWB, Mag limits, and UBC legislation? I truly understand where you are coming from, and at the highest level of .gov They truly do not care about us, but they are still (somewhat) being held in check by our systems. I do think that our Constitution is being shredded daily, and we need to take our country back, but I'm not sure that we are to the point of abandoning the ballot box for the ammo box just yet.


I do fear for the safety of our country. I have a feeling that in our lifetimes there will have to be a pruning of the Tree of Liberty and that it will be watered with the blood of patriots, I'm not looking forward to that time, but if it has to happen, I'd rather deal with it in my time, then to pass it on to our children... as I'm not so sure that generation as a whole has the stones to do what will need to be done.

To clarify; I AM NOT ADVOCATING REBELLION OR INSURRECTION, just voicing my fears and opinions.

 

[Sgtusmc]

THIS IS JUST AN OBSERVATION!

Many are concerned about what this might do to further impede our rights.
Many are concerned this event is inviting havoc to our peaceful lives.

Others see this as a necessary step to re-emphasize the power of the people.
Others are tired of the ever increasing slope of legislation against our freedoms.

It's a shame that this mans efforts are being willed to fail even though he stated he will submit to authority when it comes down to it. This is a litmus test, this is not 'A' or 'THE' revolution everyone is so inclined to say it is.

And when his march fails, and he submits to authorities for arrest, everyone of us couch commandos will say 'I knew it was a bad idea'.

 

[apfroggy0408]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sraPLEQ70pw

Kokesh on CBS.