October ACC USPSA Match 10/24

[mongo404]

[/Q. Sometime we need to sit down and analyze some of that information you have rolling around it there.
UOTE]
Please Include me in on that sit down. Sounds like the start of a good class?

 

[Josh Ward]

[/Q. Sometime we need to sit down and analyze some of that information you have rolling around it there.
UOTE]
Please Include me in on that sit down. Sounds like the start of a good class?

+1 on that!!!

I understand what rvb is getting at with his "baseball seams" analogy. I'm new to USPSA but have been shooting handguns since I had enough gumption to hold one up. I most certainly am not to the point where I can do that consistantly in a match, but I know when I get all the pieces put together for a good run. Just gotta get my hands around doing it ALL the time

 

[Coach]

[/Q. Sometime we need to sit down and analyze some of that information you have rolling around it there.
UOTE]
Please Include me in on that sit down. Sounds like the start of a good class?

How can we talk about you if you are there?

 

[jakemartens]

How can we talk about you if you are there?

Easy. Just like we do now, doesn't seem to matter much.

 

[mongo404]

Ill just look at the source both of them.

 

[jakemartens]

 

[downrange72]

Ha! You will all have me to talk about. You can talk about Daniel when he makes his visit to namby pamby land

 

[mongo404]

Looks like Ill be seeing alot of you there

 

[slow1911s]

I'm happy to see this discussion here.

I've been wondering for some time if they guys at the top are not calling every shot as good, but if they are watching for things that are "wrong" or "not right" when the gun fires.

All of those who are and have been at the top tier of this sport have sent so many rounds down range looking for an edge. They have an index, in just about any position, that is so refined and ingrained that making a hit on an average target (7-15 yds) is as natural to them as breathing is to us. I really do wonder if, on those targets/arrays, they're only or mostly focusing their attention and awareness on things that don't look right?

 

[sti38super]

Sorry if I offend all you fine shooters out there about calling your shots. There are shots that are called A's and shots that are called acceptable shots because you know they are a hit and it takes to much time to make up a D with maybe a fast C or a slow A so you go on thinking about the time factor. If you see your front sight or dot lift off the target it is hit, if your gun is tuned properly it will return to the same point of aim for the 2nd. shot and you will also see the sight or dot lift off the target and it will be a hit. In time this process will begin to move in slow motion and seam like you are taking to long to make the shots, thats when you will be doing your best shooting. Since DVC stands for Power Accurracy and SPEED you accept the the D hits insteed and SPEED on. Speed is the Economy of Motion.

 

[rvb]

I'm happy to see this discussion here.

I've been wondering for some time if they guys at the top are not calling every shot as good, but if they are watching for things that are "wrong" or "not right" when the gun fires.

All of those who are and have been at the top tier of this sport have sent so many rounds down range looking for an edge. They have an index, in just about any position, that is so refined and ingrained that making a hit on an average target (7-15 yds) is as natural to them as breathing is to us. I really do wonder if, on those targets/arrays, they're only or mostly focusing their attention and awareness on things that don't look right?

Considering the vision is so much faster than the gun and the trigger finger, and as long as they aren't shooting with their eyes closed, why wouldn't they call their shots?

The only way to know things don't look right is to know what does, and you have to be looking either way. that sounds like shot calling just phrased another way... see what you need to see.

The index helps get the gun in position to break the shot sooner, so that's all about efficiency.

But I'll never be a top shooter, so I'll never REALLY know!

-rvb

 

[rvb]

There are shots that are called A's and shots that are called acceptable shots because you know they are a hit and it takes to much time to make up a D with maybe a fast C or a slow A so you go on thinking about the time factor. ... Since DVC stands for Power Accurracy and SPEED you accept the the D hits insteed and SPEED on. Speed is the Economy of Motion.

That's the perfect answer to BillDs question. The goal is to hit all As, but if we don't, and we think in term of HF, then it's often better to not make it up (or, when shooting minor, some times it is, it depends). Calling is just knowing where the round went. Calling doesn't mean hitting all As.

-rvb

 

[BillD]

But calling the shot means hitting the target, right?
Then why do GM's have misses?

Do you get me? They preach shot calling and I understand what they do, however, they don't do it all the time or they would never have misses and NS's.

 

[rvb]

But calling the shot means hitting the target, right?
Then why do GM's have misses?

Do you get me? They preach shot calling and I understand what they do, however, they don't do it all the time or they would never have misses and NS's.

No, you're reading what you want to in our answers. "calling the shot" does NOT mean "hitting the target." Calling the shot means knowing where the shot went. You can call a miss. You can call a shot on the edge, and "hope" it made it. You can call a D and decide "good enough."

I actually do not think even the top guys call every single shot they fire. Maybe they fail to call some fraction of a percent of their rounds. Maybe they are suprised by a miss once in a while... People are human and do very few things to true perfection. But I like to think that's true simply because it's easier on my ego when I also fail to call a shot.

M's show up on top shooter's scoresheets for lots of reasons. Perhaps it is a mover and they don't want to wait for it to re-appear. Perhaps a make-up shot would blow the reload plan and hurt the score over all. Perhaps its Virginia and they don't think they can make it up fast enough to warrent the extra shot penalty. Perhaps they call it right on the edge of a barrier (barrel, wall, etc) that gets hit and deflects the bullet.

-rvb

 

[BillD]

Let's back up a second. If GM's don't call every shot (and they don't if they have misses, I can't see a GM letting a miss go, it costs 2 seconds) then we are presuming those are the ONLY shots they don't call. I don't buy that. I understand the difficult shots or fast drop turners, etc.

I'm saying, they may call the majority of their shots, but not every one, unless they shot clean.
And if they shot clean, how many uncalled shots did they have?

I'm saying the reality may be different than their opinion of their shooting.
JMO

You don't have to agree with me but rereading your post, it seems you do.

 

[sti38super]

Bill I know every shot I miss and if I think I can make that shot up and justifiy the time I will make up the shot. If I am in a bad position and have to make a lot of movement to make up a miss I will leave that target alone and move on with my game plan. It is hard to balance a match with accuracy and speed, sometimes the speed is more important and other times it is all about the points you get. Each person has to decide how he wants to shoot a stage, slow and a lot of points or blaze away and take fewer points.

 

[BillD]

Max, you had 5 mikes at a club match not too long ago. You called each of them and decided not to make them up?

I have a lot to learn about this game.
Thanks for the insight.

 

[sti38super]

You got that right.

 

[downrange72]

I am getting to know where my mikes maybe. However, I've noticed that when I think I ran a stage smooth..I end up having 2-4 mikes. They are usually at transition points where I'm getting ready to take off running. I think mentally I've shot the target before I physically shoot it. when I feel good about a run..it usually isn't that good. I know this will come with time

 

[sti38super]

So did everyone get their 2 cents worth in? What shall we talk about next? Trigger control, gun movement, reloads, week hand strong hand??? How about the mind game!!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA