OC carry caused some problems for me today

[Hayseed_40]

Firearms encounters are not in the top 100 things that officers have to deal with and so they don't have to know the law. They can say anything they want to you without fear of reprisal.

Scutter - this is the kind of crap you spout to stir the pot or get rep points. That was not what was said. Just because it may not be high on the encounter list - no LEO will say that they do not need to know it and can do anything without fear. That is just an inflamatory statemnt.

There is a training issue. People sit and *****, *****, *****, and then ***** some more about this but very few do anything to change it. How many people - besides the OP's in these types of threads - contact a department or Pros Office to make them aware and help the change. If a department is ignoring the issue (which is possible) then try *****ing at somewhere that matters. These violations of people's rights need to stop.

Personally, I think this cop that came in his yard is a real douchbag and should get himself in a ringer. He does not represent LEO's I know.

 

[Colts]

Can't rep you again, sorry...

Gave him some rep for you (probably not as much as he would have got from you though).

 

[Hayseed_40]

THIS.

Thank you Kutnupe for posting how an experienced, professional, and level headed officer would respond. Now we just need to work on the dispatchers too.

Kutnupe is a good guy, but so are most LEO's and most would react in this same mannerism. It is just on INGO, the stories focus on the turds of the industry.

 

[Scutter01]

Scutter - this is the kind of crap you spout to stir the pot or get rep points. That was not what was said. Just because it may not be high on the encounter list - no LEO will say that they do not need to know it and can do anything without fear. That is just an inflamatory statemnt.

You know I have my rep turned off, right? I could give a crap about rep. What I DO care about is that almost weekly, someone on INGO posts a thread about being hassled for doing nothing illegal. The Thin Blue Line comes running to defend the officer, nothing ever changes, but the "Us Vs Them" chasm grows a little bit larger. I KNOW it's a training issue, but it seems like no matter how many complaints we make about it, NOTHING EVER CHANGES.

I'm sorry if you feel that my comment was "crap" and "pot stirring". I asked why officers either couldn't or wouldn't get training. I was told that the training was freely available and that some just choose not to take it. I was told that "there are just too many laws". I was told lots and lots of different things and every one of them sounded like an excuse to me. Did you know that the members of INGO once put together a group buy to send every Sheriff in Indiana a copy of "County Sheriffs - America's Last Hope"? Every person that is hassled by the police for doing nothing illegal has been encouraged to file a complaint, and most (if not all), do, so please don't waste my time by claiming that it's somehow our fault that we're being victimized.

I maintain my opinion that incompetent officers who willfully choose to ignore the training materials that are available to them, but instead use innocent civilians as their classroom are not qualified to wear a badge. I will not sit here and be a training opportunity for an officer like that. It is not my job to teach them how to do their job. I have enough on my plate as it is. I expect him to know the law before he attempts to enforce it.

Hayseed, I do not believe that you are an incompetent police officer. Quite the opposite, in fact. I appreciate your insights in that other thread, as well as elsewhere on INGO. I believe that you want the best possible officer on the street. I think your voice is being drowned out by the officers who don't care about doing a good job and by officers who are more interested in "Us vs. Them".

 

[theweakerbrother]

Obviously the guy mowing the lawn was a criminal. He was probably going to steal the whole house and property but wanted a well manicured lawn before committing all his acts of violence and crime.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Kutnupe is a good guy, but so are most LEO's and most would react in this same mannerism. It is just on INGO, the stories focus on the turds of the industry.

Hayseed you must not read many of my threads on here, I have PLENTY of first hand experience with this sort of thing.

 

[Hayseed_40]

Hayseed you must not read many of my threads on here, I have PLENTY of first hand experience with this sort of thing.

Mine was a general post and not towards you personally - sorry if looked that way.

 

[canav844]

They did after the super arrived. It went pretty well after he got there but it turned a little ugly again after I asked, politely I may add, that I would appreciate an apology considering I did nothing wrong and was exceptionally compliant even beyond what the law calls for. That was when I got the "who do you think you are to question a PO" attitude. I told them I manage people in my job and would expect my employees to apologize if they behaved inappropriately. The Sargeant said, "Well, no harm no foul" and they left. Very friendly but not responsive.

I'll have you know that how you were treated by both the officer and the supervisor would have those guys looking for a new job by the end of the week if word got back to the Sheriff in some parts of this state. That is a supervisor that fails to realize the harm done; and that is exactly why you need to file a complaint. Because even beyond the ignorance of the law, the antagonizing behavior followed by the arrogance, and that this thread is six pages and have over 750 views in a few hours has done plenty of damage for relations with that department and made the jobs of officers around the state that much harder the next time they pull someone over out of those 800 that have the gun in their car and the citizen is more stressed because of reading all the negative interactions. Or since this became a spectacle for the neighborhood maybe the guy reporting it sees something that is illegal and fails to call it in so that those in the neighborhood are now suffering from delayed or non reported crimes, because those people don't want to interact with the police that don't care about their community. The mere fact you were innocent of any wrong doing and left pissed off at the LEOs that represent your community is a sign that there was harm done. Throw out all the gun knowledge stuff and how this call went was a disaster; factor in the cop felt the need to be a smart-ass to an armed person and trued to push your buttons and well he's lucky your a good guy as he clearly has no sense of self preservation. Officers like this group make me irate because of how much harm and how much harder it makes the job for every other officer out there.

I'm gonna be the devils advocate here to a point. We don't know what the actual call to the PD was. The "young officer" doesn't have the option on what calls to respond to and what ones not to respond to. If he is dispatched he has to respond. Put yourself in his shoes for a minute. He's responding to a call about someone with a gun. He wants to get home to his family at the end of his shift like we all would. He didn't ask for your gun from your post, he asked for your LTCH. The way he asked could have been better, but he gets trained to keep control of a situation because when he loses control all sorts of bad things happen for everybody. Having said that, I'd still request a visit with the Police Chief to discuss how you were treated. Instead of being confrontational he could have said "sir I just asked to see your LTCH due to a complaint" or something along those lines. PO's deal with all kinds of situations and what it looks like at first glance is hardly ever what it really is. He reamins firm, but polite. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt for some of their actions. SOME. I would still talk to the Chief and see what he has to say. Maybe they can come up with something so this doesn't happen again to you or someone else going forward.

Those are my two pennies on the situation.

So when talking to someone that is clearly in direct access of a firearm with self preservation mind do you say the following?

"because I said so"
chill out and wait until I was spoken to.

In such a situation is the the person that the MWAG call is about the one that needs to be using strategies to calm the officer down. This guy isn't looking to go home this guy is warming up to build the dashacam resume that will get him a job in Canton, OH.

 

[ATM]

How many people - besides the OP's in these types of threads - contact a department or Pros Office to make them aware and help the change.

I do.

 

[critter592]

Can't rep you again, sorry...

+2

 

[Booya]

We ought to do a group buy for some airtime and have an INGO lawyer record a commercial stating the basic gun laws in Indiana that plays statewide. It doesn't have to be prime time or on the fanciest channels, word will get around.

Or collect up all the threads exactly like this one and make 1000 copies of a well written letter (also containing basic gun laws in Indiana) containing these examples and send them to as many PD Chiefs as we can find an address for, not only sighting these examples, but the number of comments and views. Let them know just how many hoosiers are seeing and talking about these halfwit officers (the ones involved in these threads not all of them!!) that run unchecked in the state.

I know that's a lot of work, but what else can you do? I would hazard to guess that a vast majority of the "official" complaints fall on deaf ears anyhow.

 

[Hayseed_40]

You know I have my rep turned off, right? I could give a crap about rep. What I DO care about is that almost weekly, someone on INGO posts a thread about being hassled for doing nothing illegal. The Thin Blue Line comes running to defend the officer, nothing ever changes, but the "Us Vs Them" chasm grows a little bit larger. I KNOW it's a training issue, but it seems like no matter how many complaints we make about it, NOTHING EVER CHANGES.

I'm sorry if you feel that my comment was "crap" and "pot stirring". I asked why officers either couldn't or wouldn't get training. I was told that the training was freely available and that some just choose not to take it. I was told that "there are just too many laws". I was told lots and lots of different things and every one of them sounded like an excuse to me. Did you know that the members of INGO once put together a group buy to send every Sheriff in Indiana a copy of "County Sheriffs - America's Last Hope"? Every person that is hassled by the police for doing nothing illegal has been encouraged to file a complaint, and most (if not all), do, so please don't waste my time by claiming that it's somehow our fault that we're being victimized.

I maintain my opinion that incompetent officers who willfully choose to ignore the training materials that are available to them, but instead use innocent civilians as their classroom are not qualified to wear a badge. I will not sit here and be a training opportunity for an officer like that. It is not my job to teach them how to do their job. I have enough on my plate as it is. I expect him to know the law before he attempts to enforce it.

Hayseed, I do not believe that you are an incompetent police officer. Quite the opposite, in fact. I appreciate your insights in that other thread, as well as elsewhere on INGO. I believe that you want the best possible officer on the street. I think your voice is being drowned out by the officers who don't care about doing a good job and by officers who are more interested in "Us vs. Them".

I appreciate the response.

First, I am no longer an LEO - was for several years but have recently left. My insights are from my experiences with all the encounters and calls I had or was involved.

It is an US vs Them mentality both on INGO and out in the street. I think that LEO's (especially good ones) are tired of the public always busting their chops for everything. LEO's can get a phone call 5 minutes into shift from the Shift LT asking for their plate number since a civilian called complaining someone drove out of the parking "a little too fast".

I may be off on this one, but I feel one problem is ignorance at the department that this is as big of an issue as it is. I know it happens very infrequently but once is too many. If training leaders and prosecutor's offices received letters with some of these "certified" stories, they would pay a little more attention. There are hundreds of departments out there and they would each need worked on.

I encourage people to complain if there rights are violated. Something may not happen that time, but worse case will show a pattern at a later date.

 

[Hayseed_40]

I do.

that is surpising

but seriously - good

 

[critter592]

Obviously the guy mowing the lawn was a criminal. He was probably going to steal the whole house and property but wanted a well manicured lawn before committing all his acts of violence and crime.

The only thing that saved him from having his OC taken by a 5yo girl is that he was on his riding lawn mower. They can't climb that high.

 

[VERT]

I do not usually post in an OC thread, but what happened to the OP really tees me off. I honestly don't know how I would react to an officer coming onto my property and stopping me for doing something that is illegal. I am the type of person that shows a lot of support and respect towards LEOs. But I would have had a hard time keeping my cool if this were to happen to me. To be honest I may have said something I would later regret. Without a doubt I would be calling my sherrif. Just so happens Mike is a great guy and happens to be a customer of mine so I have his cell number in my phone.

 

[IndianaGTI]

File a complaint. I am a former LEO and have filed complaints about LEO's and have LEO's in the family. However, the bad LEO's give everyone a bad name. I would bet that this will not be the first complaint about that particular LEO. If it is, there will probably be a ton to follow. I was the first person to complain about one young LEO who now leads his post in number of complaints filed. It helps when everyone knows which are the bad apples.

 

[E'villeGunner]

We may be missing something. Were you stepping across a sidewalk or turning around in the street? Technically those are public places and would require a LTCH, right?

What were you wearing also? If you were in a speedo and mid-riff shirt, then the officer behaved appropriately. I just think we're inferring too much in his thread.

Wait a minute....are you saying that it's illegal to OC while wearing a Speedo?? Boy am I in trouble!

 

[Andy219]

Just tagging in for updates. File a complaint.

 

[mac45]

No one with an attitude like that should be wearing a badge.
I hope you file the complaint.

 

[bigred_dean@yahoo.com]

good for you all you can do is try to do tell this fools what is up and they should already know.

So, today I am mowing my yard, cleaning up leaves, etc. I am carrying a G19 in a holster on my belt, like I usually do. Well, I got this feeling that I was being watched. I was. A FW police officer had pulled up to my yard and was exiting his vehicle. I shut off the mower and gave the officer a big smile, said hello, and approached him. He asked to see my LTCH. I complied but asked why in a friendly tone. He looked at me and said, "because I said so". I let a laugh escape me bc I was so shocked. He asked me what was so funny. I told him that there was nothing funny about what was happening. Again, I asked him what the problem was, again in a very friendly manner. He said to chill out and wait until I was spoken to.

Can you feel what I was feeling right now? I was getting scared.

It turns out my neighbor called it in bc he thought that carrying a gun was illegal. I nicely informed the officer that I do not even need a LTCH to carry on my own property and my LTCH allows me to carry openly or concealed. It didn't go well after that.

In the end it took a supervisor and two neighbors standing by as witnesses to stop this jerk off from railroading me.

I am STILL angry. To try to calm this moron down I told him I am a former po and my brother is still a po. To that he replied, "I am duly impressed". so insulting and humiliating. When it was all over I asked the officer in front of his supervisor for an apology for the way I was treated. That didn't go over well either.

I am so pissed still I can hardly see straight. This is why I tend to conceal carry. Too many uneducated, misinformed idiots in blue.