OC Black Friday Meet and Lunch 11/26/10 Discussion Thread

[Delmar]

But no one's arguing this. We all know that the majority feel that way. The problem is this small minority that think they are demigods with badges. Their personal beliefs trump law.

For those playing along at officer.com please pay attention to the term "small minority". I don't think anyone here is lumping all LEOs in the same basket. That would be wrong!

 

[Suprtek]

That is just a response from only a handful of police. The majority are all for the John Q Public owning and carrying firearms. And believe it or not, they're all for us defending ourselves too!

How do I know this to be fact and the truth? Talking to the Boone County Sheriffs Department and other local police departments.

I fully believe this to be the case as well. I fact, I believe the education that we endeavor to provide needs to be geared more to the general public than to law enforcement. If the general public would lose the fear of people OCing (properly behaved of course), law enforcement would have no need to be involved because unnecessary MWAG calls would stop. I speak for no one but myself, but this is the reason I would choose to participate in these events. As I have already stated, I will not be attending this one due to other obligations. However, I am trying to do what I can. ATF was nice enough to let me pick up a stack of fliers and I've already begun passing them out.

 

[ATF Consumer]

with 11,700 members, you might want to start a new thread on this one.

It's really only 6257 members...the rest have never logged back in.

 

[lovemachine]

A cop explained it to me kinda like this. You'll run into a handful of other cops who are actually afraid of guns. It's how they were raised. So they actually became cops for real good reasons. To serve and protect. But since they are still afraid of guns, they are also afraid of the non Leo carrying too.
The only way to change that is a different approach. Change the publics view of firearms, before they become even more deeply afraid of guns. And in my opinion, also based on what this Leo told me, is by doing this thru shooting sports. Teaching firearms safety. You have to go around their fears. Not right up front with it.

 

[SavageEagle]

It's really only 6257 members...the rest have never logged back in.

STOP THAT!

I can't rep you again yet...

 

[Que]

It's really only 6257 members...the rest have never logged back in.

There have only been approximately 100 who have commented in this thread. Only about 50 of those have commented more than 2-3 times. I think you are in the lead or close to it.

 

[ATF Consumer]

STOP THAT!

I can't rep you again yet...

I pulled that number out of my butt and it really stinks

 

[SavageEagle]

And in my opinion, also based on what this Leo told me, is by doing this thru shooting sports. Teaching firearms safety. You have to go around their fears. Not right up front with it.

I'm not disagreeing with you. But please, tell me how you're going to get someone scared to death of guns to a shooting range or a firearms safety course?

If you can figure that out, please come talk with my mother and aunts. If you can get a gun in their hands I will give you the cost of the course.

 

[SavageEagle]

I pulled that number out of my butt and it really stinks

That explains why my wife kept saying she didn't fart.

 

[Suprtek]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But please, tell me how you're going to get someone scared to death of guns to a shooting range or a firearms safety course?

If you can figure that out, please come talk with my mother and aunts. If you can get a gun in their hands I will give you the cost of the course.

This is my opinion as well. Absolutely nothing wrong with promoting shooting sports but there are many that will never participate. I respect their choice. The only way to prove to these people that guns in public are not a bad thing is to actually let them see guns in public without bad things happening.

 

[ATF Consumer]

There have only been approximately 100 who have commented in this thread. Only about 50 of those have commented more than 2-3 times. I think you are in the lead or close to it.

You mean this isn't the status update thread???

 

[BloodEclipse]

Change the publics view of firearms, before they become even more deeply afraid of guns. And in my opinion, also based on what this Leo told me, is by doing this thru shooting sports. Teaching firearms safety. You have to go around their fears. Not right up front with it.

That is your opinion.

My opinion is to move on all fronts.
I am a supporter of the things you suggest.
I don't think the walks are the only way to educate.

The difference is so many here, that disagree, are doing so based upon how they feel emotionally.
This concept of a walk seems so out of the norm that "it must be bad and can only lead to bad things".

I like to think of the walk as just another tool to help educate.
I have been asked many times about OC and the requirements to obtain a ltch.

Most people have no idea what the laws are. Just the talk, about this walk, has already educated many. I have had people at work, in Fort Wayne, come ask me about Indiana law. They seem excited that Indiana doesn't require registration of handguns. Many have that misconception.

I'm not asking anyone to support us.
I know for some that would mean stepping out of their comfort zone.
I would bet if you did join us however, you would find it to be fun and your view on things would change in a positive manner.
The term liberating comes to mind.

 

[lovemachine]

I'm not disagreeing with you. But please, tell me how you're going to get someone scared to death of guns to a shooting range or a firearms safety course?

If you can figure that out, please come talk with my mother and aunts. If you can get a gun in their hands I will give you the cost of the course.

I've done exactly that. I have taken 3 people, who were deathly afraid of guns, borderline anti gunners even, to the range. Now all 3 have bought handguns. 2 of them are now just waiting to receive their LTCH's. All this was this past month.

2 of them bought Glock 19's, the other bought a .38 special.

 

[SavageEagle]

I've done exactly that. I have taken 3 people, who were deathly afraid of guns, borderline anti gunners even, to the range. Now all 3 have bought handguns. 2 of them are now just waiting to receive their LTCH's. All this was this past month.

2 of them bought Glock 19's, the other bought a .38 special.

That's great! But those people are a small minority when it comes to handling guns. My purpose isn't to convert non-gun-owners to gun-owners, but to get them to accept owning and carrying a gun as my RIGHT and to respect that. If they happen to become gun owners themselves, that's just a bonus.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I've done exactly that. I have taken 3 people, who were deathly afraid of guns, borderline anti gunners even, to the range. Now all 3 have bought handguns. 2 of them are now just waiting to receive their LTCH's. All this was this past month.

2 of them bought Glock 19's, the other bought a .38 special.

Great, now invite them to walk with us.

 

[SavageEagle]

That is your opinion.

My opinion is to move on all fronts.
I am a supporter of the things you suggest.
I don't think the walks are the only way to educate.

The difference is so many here, that disagree, are doing so based upon how they feel emotionally.
This concept of a walk seems so out of the norm that "it must be bad and can only lead to bad things".

I like to think of the walk as just another tool to help educate.
I have been asked many times about OC and the requirements to obtain a ltch.

Most people have no idea what the laws are. Just the talk, about this walk, has already educated many. I have had people at work, in Fort Wayne, come ask me about Indiana law. They seem excited that Indiana doesn't require registration of handguns. Many have that misconception.

I'm not asking anyone to support us.
I know for some that would mean stepping out of their comfort zone.
I would bet if you did join us however, you would find it to be fun and your view on things would change in a positive manner.
The term liberating comes to mind.

 

[BloodEclipse]

As a proponent of OC I would like to see more OC events.
I think there are many people who are flirting with OC but just can't take the step alone.
A group environment is more comfortable.
Look back at all the threads we had about people carrying without one in the chamber.
They hadn't reached the comfort level yet to do so.
We all know, that is not an ideal way to carry a self defense handgun.
The more people we can make comfortable, openly carrying a handgun, means the more exposure the public gets seeing handguns in open sight, without anything bad happening.

 

[Que]

That's great! But those people are a small minority when it comes to handling guns. My purpose isn't to convert non-gun-owners to gun-owners, but to get them to accept owning and carrying a gun as my RIGHT and to respect that. If they happen to become gun owners themselves, that's just a bonus.

I get what you are saying, but what defines "respect"? Does that mean that you want the average person walking down the street who sees you OCing to resist calling the police, knowing you have the right to do so?

 

[SavageEagle]

I get what you are saying, but what defines "respect"? Does that mean that you want the average person walking down the street who sees you OCing to resist calling the police, knowing you have the right to do so?

That would be a good start, yes. It would be nice if people knew that a gun in their presence doesn't necessarily mean a crime is being committed or about to be committed. There are other signs to look for if that's the case.

 

[dom1104]

Bacon imo. And more drama, this is getting too responsible, adult and civilized.

/snore