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  • Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
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    I'm didn't make a declaration as to the right or wrong of it. Only that the governor most likely has the power he's invoking. And in retrospect, I misspoke as far as the oath. In all likelihood, the officers wouldn't be running contrary to their oath to enforce the action. An officer taking an oath to defend the state and federal constitution, is not without limits, as rights are not always universally held, at least not legally. You can bet your bottom dollar that EVERY state has a provision in which one's rights can be suspended en masse. Instances of rebellion, invasion, and public safety have pretty regularly been used to curtail rights, and of the top of my head, curfew laws after major disasters.

    You misunderstood me, Kut. I said that the governor has the power to suspend certain rights, not the "right" to do so. Rights come from our Creator, while powers come from government. As a human, he has the *right* of free speech, etc. but no *power* over any fellow human. As the governor, a representative of government, he has the power to order other elements of government to enforce his dictates, but he has not one single right *as a consequence of his office*.

    You may think me pedantic and needlessly splitting hairs, but the difference is important. His powers come from the people, and the people can take them away. The peoples' rights are unalienable, and can be taken only by He who gave them. In the face of Northam's order, just as "Tank Man" in the face of the Chinese government in 1989, the rights are not removed, but their use is punished.

    Perhaps another analogy would be better suited: If you put handcuffs on someone, you deny him the use of his arms, but you do not remove his arms! Eventually, you have to remove the cuffs, and you'd better hope either that he is a man with respect for the rule of law, that you have treated him decently or that you have a metric :poop: ton of backup.

    And yes, as noted, traditionally (Katrina comes to mind) the governor has the power to take away peoples' guns (unless forbidden in law, as IIRC was done here in IN (I know it was proposed, don't know if it passed the legislature)) AFTER the disaster. I suppose a case could be made that the election was the disaster, however.

    The right of the people to petition their government for redress of grievance has been upheld quit vigorously by SCOTUS, IIRC to the point that even if the appeal is frivolous, the court has an obligation to hear it. I don't recall the specifics of the case I'm referencing as it's been many years since I heard of it, but if you want, I'll see if I can find info. Given that position, though, the governor attempting to curtail the right of the people peaceably to assemble FOR THE PURPOSE of redress of grievance would seem to be not only unConstitutional, but grounds for removal from office.

    We have gotten soft as a nation; time was that such an action would be grounds for his literal removal from office, tarring and feathering, and being run out of town on a rail.

    Before this is all done, I suspect it may come close to that point again. God help us all.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    2A_Tom

    Crotchety old member!
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    That would be great. Southern Illinois can secede from the northern counties and leave them to go bankrupt.

    They don't necessarily have to join us.
     

    Tombs

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    sBmM4qI.jpg
     

    mmpsteve

    Real CZ's have a long barrel!!
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    ..... formerly near the Wild Turkey

    Kutnupe14

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    I'm sure you think the constitution was written in purple.

    No, I'm just pointing out, that if, what you call patriots don't yield to unConstitutional edicts, then I'd question how many actual patriots there are. If such persons do exist, then they are most certainly regular law breakers according to written law. You wouldn't by chance have a little pink permission slip in your wallet would ya?.... wait, of course you don't you're a patriot, one that doesn't yield to unconstitutional edicts. :dunno:
     

    Tombs

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    No, I'm just pointing out, that if, what you call patriots don't yield to unConstitutional edicts, then I'd question how many actual patriots there are. If such persons do exist, then they are most certainly regular law breakers according to written law. You wouldn't by chance have a little pink permission slip in your wallet would ya?.... wait, of course you don't you're a patriot, one that doesn't yield to unconstitutional edicts. :dunno:

    We're all criminals if we compile state laws together.
     

    VulpesForge

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    No, I'm just pointing out, that if, what you call patriots don't yield to unConstitutional edicts, then I'd question how many actual patriots there are. If such persons do exist, then they are most certainly regular law breakers according to written law. You wouldn't by chance have a little pink permission slip in your wallet would ya?.... wait, of course you don't you're a patriot, one that doesn't yield to unconstitutional edicts. :dunno:

    Kutnupe I actually agree with your statements. Asking permission from the government for just about anything is rather repulsive to patriots, but until such a time as "we the people" are ready to lay down blood and lead to do such a thing we have to take a more pragmatic approach and not be sentenced to 10 years for exercising out rights. I also understand the sentiment that's being expressed and the frustration with the way things are presently. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, but the position tombs has just needs a little refining IMO. Unless you guys are ready to organize the big revolt of course.:ar15:
     

    Kutnupe14

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    Kutnupe I actually agree with your statements. Asking permission from the government for just about anything is rather repulsive to patriots, but until such a time as "we the people" are ready to lay down blood and lead to do such a thing we have to take a more pragmatic approach and not be sentenced to 10 years for exercising out rights. I also understand the sentiment that's being expressed and the frustration with the way things are presently. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, but the position tombs has just needs a little refining IMO. Unless you guys are ready to organize the big revolt of course.:ar15:

    FYI, just a heads up, management frowns on this type of talk.
    And yes, I agree we abide by a lot of things that are repulsive to the Constitution.
     

    VulpesForge

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    Ah yes, the first amendment. Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances in the designated "freedom zones" (formerly freedom cages) at the appropriate times and places set forth by governmental dictate.
     

    churchmouse

    I still care....Really
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    Kutnupe I actually agree with your statements. Asking permission from the government for just about anything is rather repulsive to patriots, but until such a time as "we the people" are ready to lay down blood and lead to do such a thing we have to take a more pragmatic approach and not be sentenced to 10 years for exercising out rights. I also understand the sentiment that's being expressed and the frustration with the way things are presently. There's nothing wrong with feeling that way, but the position tombs has just needs a little refining IMO. Unless you guys are ready to organize the big revolt of course.:ar15:

    Please. As Kut said we do not want another visit from those guys in black with ear wigs. Period.

    Be cool OK.....:cool:
     
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