MY PERSONAL PATH AWAY FROM THE 1911 (Hilton Yam)

[BehindBlueI's]

So much emotional attachment to the 1911 platform.

1) Why is that? What about the 1911 is so special that people get attached to it? Its not just because its a US military gun, the M9 certainly doesn't enjoy the same following. Its not because JMB invented it, the Hi power has a cult but not the flocks of 1911 owners. Maybe because it works so well for so many?

2) Do you think all the arguments put forth are based only on emotional attachment? Do you think the arguments against are based soley on rational and unbiased fact?

 

[Rob377]

So much emotional attachment to the 1911 platform. This conversation reminds me of when the liberals get all mad when a black person espouses conservative beliefs. How dare they, Uncle Tom I say.

 

[SERparacord]

That is just not true.

yeah but a yam and an old bi-plane says it is.

 

[cedartop]

1) Why is that? What about the 1911 is so special that people get attached to it? Its not just because its a US military gun, the M9 certainly doesn't enjoy the same following. Its not because JMB invented it, the Hi power has a cult but not the flocks of 1911 owners. Maybe because it works so well for so many?

2) Do you think all the arguments put forth are based only on emotional attachment? Do you think the arguments against are based soley on rational and unbiased fact?

All of the arguments invalid, not at all. I am merely speaking of those who think because they have put 1,000 rounds or so through a couple of 1911's are going to disregard observations from people who have watched thousands of people in widely varying circumstances shoot what, hundreds of thousands of rounds. " I have never had a problem with mine, ergo all of your experience is invalid."

 

[Jeff]

In 30 years of shooting I have seen them all fail. Colt, SA, S&W, STI, SVI, Vickers, Wilson, Baer, Williams, Brown and the list goes on. Anyone that says they can keep one running for thousands and thousands of rounds without money and maintenance are flat out liars. We like the maintenance. That is why we like the the 1911.

 

[88E30M50]

I don't think it's so much emotion as it is calling out BS when it's heard. Hilton Yam's article makes sense from his point of view. He's run up against a medical condition that prevents his shooting the platform and he's getting tired of supporting what he cannot enjoy. Larry Vicker's article sure sounds like someone that's kind of full of himself in that he cannot imagine carrying a 1911 that had not had a top notch gun smith rework regardless of how reliable it already is. He states it takes a grand to make a 1911 reliable, yet describes very little that need be done after that. Statements from him like "But the 1911 is not a plug-and-play platform. Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking." is flat wrong. If he is thinking that anyone that buys a Wilson Combat 1911 should send it to him to be fixed before it can be trusted, he is delusional.

If there is emotion involved, it's coming from the frustration of bad info being passed off as common logic from folks that should know better. While I'm a fan of the 1911, I don't think it's an emotional attachment. I also am a fan of Glocks and CZs and just appreciate good engineering when I see it.

I think we are at an interesting period in 1911 history. The popularity has never been higher and that is driving a couple of different trends. First, to keep up with demand, there are lots of folks building 1911s. Some are great, some are not as great. Just about every one of them has had an issue or more in production but that's not limited to the 1911 world. Even poly gun makers have had setbacks while trying to meet the demand for new pistols. Then, some of the manufacturers that have enjoyed a great reputation are having issues maintaining that quality. Colt and Kimber have both had issues come up. Now, to that add a general trend in society towards plug and play devices that require no actual skill or knowledge of the tool being used.

I think that all of this is coming together in a way that can cause issues during a class. The 1911 is a product of an era where things were built to last a lifetime and were maintained carefully. Today, we live in a throwaway society that does not value maintenance nor skill, and instead looks at them as bad things. The end result could be that the number of people attending a class using 1911s that they don't maintain or practice much with is increasing. I imagine a lot of instructors do get tired of dealing with firearm issues and when it's coming from a platform that needs more maintenance, yet does not get it, it would be easy to start pushing people more towards the plug-n-play platforms like the Glock.

That's not so much an indictement of the platform as it is one of the people that refuse to master it.

 

[SERparacord]

I don't think it's so much emotion as it is calling out BS when it's heard. Hilton Yam's article makes sense from his point of view. He's run up against a medical condition that prevents his shooting the platform and he's getting tired of supporting what he cannot enjoy. Larry Vicker's article sure sounds like someone that's kind of full of himself in that he cannot imagine carrying a 1911 that had not had a top notch gun smith rework regardless of how reliable it already is. He states it takes a grand to make a 1911 reliable, yet describes very little that need be done after that. Statements from him like "But the 1911 is not a plug-and-play platform. Even a $2,000 semi-custom 1911 likely will need a pricey trip to a gunsmith for tweaking." is flat wrong. If he is thinking that anyone that buys a Wilson Combat 1911 should send it to him to be fixed before it can be trusted, he is delusional.

If there is emotion involved, it's coming from the frustration of bad info being passed off as common logic from folks that should know better. While I'm a fan of the 1911, I don't think it's an emotional attachment. I also am a fan of Glocks and CZs and just appreciate good engineering when I see it.

He's just confused. He thought his RIA was a $2000 semi-custom.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

All of the arguments invalid, not at all. I am merely speaking of those who think because they have put 1,000 rounds or so through a couple of 1911's are going to disregard observations from people who have watched thousands of people in widely varying circumstances shoot what, hundreds of thousands of rounds. " I have never had a problem with mine, ergo all of your experience is invalid."

Different people have different needs. Different guns excel in different areas. Combine those two facts, and you have different experiences. The areas the 1911 excels in areas that match my requirements. If I were a competitor shooting thousands of rounds in one day, it may not match up as well.

I've already explained that the areas the 1911 is weak in don't effect me. The areas it is strong in go hand in hand with my personal requirements. In the same way, my experiences with the M9 in a sandy environment with crap gov't supplied magazines in 130 degree heat are valid experiences. They are just irrelevant for anyone carrying a Beretta in Indiana with quality magazines. If someone says they carry a 92, I don't pipe up that its a terrible gun because sand gums it up, the magazine followers stick easily, and a 15 round magazine will only feed the top 3 or 4 reliably. Their requirements for carrying it here do not include the ability to weather a sandstorm, they aren't stuck with the GI mags, etc. There is a difference between writing off my experience and realizing that its irrelevant to someone with different needs.

In the end, everyone needs to do a realistic evaluation of their needs, and find out which platform meets their needs the best. My requirements are pretty simple. What do I shoot the best the fastest in situations that I am likely to find myself in. I do not carry the same gun while jogging as I do when going to the movie theater, because the threats I would be likely to face are quite different. Jogging, my primary likely threats are dogs or muggers, both of which will be up close. A snubby revolver can deal with either threat, and excels in the other requirements of being lightweight, easy to carry in jogging clothes, etc. I'm much less concerned with an active shooter, I'm much less concerned with distances, I'm much less concerned about night sights. A trip to the movies is different. Night sights are now mandatory, likely engagement ranges stretch from bad breath distances to 30y or more. Clothing choices allow for belt carry, weight is no longer much of an issue, etc. I'm going to carry my Sig P220 for that. It better fits those needs.

 

[churchmouse]

So much emotional attachment to the 1911 platform. This conversation reminds me of when the liberals get all mad when a black person espouses conservative beliefs. How dare they, Uncle Tom I say.

That is what you get from my posts.......Really...

Yeah, I am somewhat emotionally attached but (yes the bis "B" word) this antique and outdated platform works for me.....and many many others.

 

[indiucky]

So much emotional attachment to the 1911 platform.

I myself have a very strong emotional attachment to Smith revolvers and 1911's...A combination of history, reliabilty, and beauty make them seem oh so wonderful to me...

I am not embarrased nor ashamed about this emotional attachment...However...My wife did smell Hoppes on my collar one night and I explained to her that it was just a one night fling with a Smith and Wesson H.E. 2nd Model in original .455 Webley. I lied and said it was purely physical...But let's be honest...It really was emotional...

I don't know about Uncle Tom...He died a couple of years ago down in Muhlenburg County...Rumour is he like 1911's and Smith's as well....

 

[dthm03]

just another article to keep in the back of your mind. I'm still getting a 1911 though...

 

[VERT]

just another article to keep in the back of your mind. I'm still getting a 1911 though...

And that's OK. Just don't carry it for personal protection.

 

[jagee]

And that's OK. Just don't carry it for personal protection.

Weren't you carrying a 1911 at the Big Woods meet and greet?

 

[Hohn]

C'mon in--the water's fine amongst those of us with no practical use at all for any 1911.

They look cool, for sure. They are historic and timeless. Which is why the belong in a display case--not in a holster.

*Dons Nomex*

 

[bwframe]

And that's OK. Just don't carry it for personal protection.

...or knives either, outdated .

 

[VERT]

But they look cool. If I am going to die in a hail of bullets while shopping at WalMart, I might as well look good doing it.

 

[VERT]

...or knives either, outdated .

Knives are OK. Leave the sword and crossbow at home. Unless it is the zombie apocalypse.

 

[SERparacord]

Knives are OK. Leave the sword and crossbow at home. Unless it is the zombie apocalypse.

Knives can't pass the 10,000 round torture test the gun writers are so proud of.

 

[VERT]

Knives can't pass the 10,000 round torture test the gun writers are so proud of.

I bet there is a thread somewhere on INGO where people are beating their knives with a hammer or chopping down trees. Then they wonder why they lose an edge or break. Tools that get used break. Tools that get abused break more quickly.

 

[88E30M50]

And that's OK. Just don't carry it for personal protection without learning how to maintain it properly.

FIFY