MY PERSONAL PATH AWAY FROM THE 1911 (Hilton Yam)

[VERT]

Well I won't be selling the entry level 1911 I just bought. I like it. Unfortunately, I also won't be able to leave it alone as I have already added an ambi safety, mag well and need some different sights. I also wouldn't mind letting a real 1911 gunsmith give it a once over. I think when I fit the new mag well and backstrap, I inadvertently loosened the grip safety up. There won't be anything entry level about the price when I am done with it.

dude you are going to put a mag well on a Commander sized gun. The grip will be as long as the barrel. It is easy to want to customize isn't it? Same with 10/22s in that nobody leaves them alone.

One word for 1911s - Magazines. You have to run good magazines. I have Wilson ETMs but really want to try the Tripps after seeing Robs comments.

 

[bwframe]

...
One word for 1911s - Magazines. You have to run good magazines. I have Wilson ETMs but really want to try the Tripps after seeing Robs comments.

I come from the school that says a magazine sensitive gun needs gun work as opposed to attempting to find the happy brand among the top names.

 

[Rob377]

I come from the school that says a magazine sensitive gun needs gun work as opposed to attempting to find the happy brand among the top names.

Damn. Now I have to do a bunch of work to my glocks because they don't work well with crappy Korean knock off mags?

That makes me sad.

 

[cedartop]

dude you are going to put a mag well on a Commander sized gun. The grip will be as long as the barrel. It is easy to want to customize isn't it? Same with 10/22s in that nobody leaves them alone.

One word for 1911s - Magazines. You have to run good magazines. I have Wilson ETMs but really want to try the Tripps after seeing Robs comments.

Hey, give me a break. After all that time of sticking that tapered mag into a big opening, that slim 45 mag into that small sharp slot is just too much for me. It is not a funnel. Mags are the good 8 round McCormkcks. (I think)

 

[cedartop]

G41 would make a great SWAT/HRT pistol. I see it as the modern day equivalent of the 1911.

The 1911 does have some advantages over Glock. Last year I took a three day shooting class that happened to have some students in attendance from other training companies. Day one my partner stepped up and shot a nice hand sized group in rapid order. Fist bumps all around because that is how it is done. I stepped up and blasted a single half fist sized hole in target. The following day another participant was getting frustrated because his shooting was lacking. He started criticizing the outdated 1911 on my hip. After all he had never seen one make it through his classes. I agreed mine would not either. During the final exam I listened as one of the assistants lectured him on his attitude and told him he would shoot the required score or not pass. I did what I could to help by attempting to shoot the course 100% clean (248/250 twice, dropped a shot both times). That is what a quality 1911 brings to the table. A rapidly deployed platform that can send a single accurate, heavy chunk of lead where it needs to go.

A comment on quality. The Wilson, Les, Ed guys are considered by some to be snobs. The guns work and work well if the owners do their part. My guess is a $2500+ gun deserves some respect and there is an emotional attachment and pride in ownership. I consider a fine 1911 to be the modern day and American equivalent of the Samurai sword.

I thought you were talking about me for a minute. Don't remember being lectured though. BTW, just signed up for the advanced level class for this year.

 

[VERT]

I thought you were talking about me for a minute. Don't remember being lectured though. BTW, just signed up for the advanced level class for this year.

No not you. Though I am sure CraigH represented the 1911 crowd. I would love to do the advanced class, but first I need to find more paying students. My wife keeps offering up my time Pro Bono

 

[Jeff]

I consider a fine 1911 to be the modern day and American equivalent of the Samurai sword.

 

[88E30M50]

It's an interesting article, but it is really just saying that Hilton Yam is tired of the platform. He starts by saying he has a medical condition that limits his ability to shoot heavy guns in .45. He then goes on to say how he got tired of being the go-to guy for agency issues. I think he just got tired of spending his life solving the same issue over and over again. With the medical limitation added in, its only natural for him to move to a different platform.

There is a big difference in the problems that an agency armorer might see while maintaining 50 plus guns carried daily by both gun nuts and non-gun folks alike and the issues experienced by a person that owns and carries a handful of guns he/she maintains themselves. In my opinion, the modern, tight tolerance 1911 may very well need more care than the production loose tolerance 1911s built for the military. The level of care that can be provided by an armorer responsible for dozens of pistols will not match what can be given by an owner/carrier of the same gun.

He does not go into the specifics of the failures he sees in classes. Today's 1911s can be a little more susceptible to high volume shooting with no maintenance than the older production guns. If you see a failure at round 300 due to lack of lube, does that mean the gun cannot be trusted for carry? Of course not. As BBI mentioned, many of today's classes focus on high round count drills that do not mimic real world use. I think many of the failures also do not mimic real world experience.

In the end, I think Hilton Yam just got tired of the platform beating his elbows up with the volume of fire few of us can manage. Couple that with being tasked with solving the same problems over and over again for one agency after another and then add to that having to deal with failures during classes due to either lack of maintenance or low quality guns. In the end, how many people would stay with a platform that they no longer got to enjoy, but still were responsible for fixing. He lost all the positive of the platform and retained all of the negative. Not many people would stay the course in that situation.

 

[churchmouse]

It's an interesting article, but it is really just saying that Hilton Yam is tired of the platform. He starts by saying he has a medical condition that limits his ability to shoot heavy guns in .45. He then goes on to say how he got tired of being the go-to guy for agency issues. I think he just got tired of spending his life solving the same issue over and over again. With the medical limitation added in, its only natural for him to move to a different platform.

There is a big difference in the problems that an agency armorer might see while maintaining 50 plus guns carried daily by both gun nuts and non-gun folks alike and the issues experienced by a person that owns and carries a handful of guns he/she maintains themselves. In my opinion, the modern, tight tolerance 1911 may very well need more care than the production loose tolerance 1911s built for the military. The level of care that can be provided by an armorer responsible for dozens of pistols will not match what can be given by an owner/carrier of the same gun.

He does not go into the specifics of the failures he sees in classes. Today's 1911s can be a little more susceptible to high volume shooting with no maintenance than the older production guns. If you see a failure at round 300 due to lack of lube, does that mean the gun cannot be trusted for carry? Of course not. As BBI mentioned, many of today's classes focus on high round count drills that do not mimic real world use. I think many of the failures also do not mimic real world experience.

In the end, I think Hilton Yam just got tired of the platform beating his elbows up with the volume of fire few of us can manage. Couple that with being tasked with solving the same problems over and over again for one agency after another and then add to that having to deal with failures during classes due to either lack of maintenance or low quality guns. In the end, how many people would stay with a platform that they no longer got to enjoy, but still were responsible for fixing. He lost all the positive of the platform and retained all of the negative. Not many people would stay the course in that situation.

I have to agree. I have never worn out any of my 1911's but I have had several and that spreads the load around to different guns. If I only had 1 and shot it as much as the many I have, well, yeah there may be issues. If I shot 1 of any platform at that volume there would be issues. They are machines, nothing more.
As with a car a machine requires attention with use. More use equates to more attention. Our Para double stacks had issues after an excess of 10K down range. I think any gun would. Springs and ejectors, standard stuff. Sold both after 13K use and the original barrels were still in place in both and the P-12 received a trigger upgrade but not from wear just desire. New owners are friends that run the hell out of them.....still smiling and love the guns.

Thing with a 1911 is we want to Hot-Rod them. It is more desire than need. Tighten the slide/frame fit, Better barrel Bushings, trigger love, sights and on and on. All of my 1911's have had or will have some messaging as it is part of owning them. So much can be done but often is not really needed.

 

[88E30M50]

This one addresses a lot of that. Maybe you already read it. The Real Truth About 1911s | Modern Service Weapons I am getting into my 1911 but it won't be my go to gun.

That article really does sum up 1911 ownership. I'll admit to being big into 1911s and there are more 1911s in my safe than any other type. That said, there are some days when I'm just not up to carrying a 1911 and will carry a Glock instead. Sure, I have a bad habit of sweeping a non-existent thumb safety when I practice with it, but I can live with that. I do believe that you really need to be into the pistol to get the most out of the 1911. If you are not, there are better cash-n-carry guns out there.

I agree CM, a lot of guns are fun to hot-rod but there is a world of difference between dropping a 3.5 connector into a Glock and doing a trigger job on a 1911. One takes a minute and makes a crappy trigger less crappy. The other takes a bunch more time and turns a great trigger into a wonderful trigger. I love getting into the deep down details of a 1911 like figuring out the difference between a flat FPS and the normal rounded one in terms of recoil. Or, the whole design around the link and VIS (should the barrel ride the link as some think or should it ride the lower lugs as others think?). Fun stuff there that I'll never get out of a Glock.

 

[churchmouse]

That article really does sum up 1911 ownership. I'll admit to being big into 1911s and there are more 1911s in my safe than any other type. That said, there are some days when I'm just not up to carrying a 1911 and will carry a Glock instead. Sure, I have a bad habit of sweeping a non-existent thumb safety when I practice with it, but I can live with that. I do believe that you really need to be into the pistol to get the most out of the 1911. If you are not, there are better cash-n-carry guns out there.

I agree CM, a lot of guns are fun to hot-rod but there is a world of difference between dropping a 3.5 connector into a Glock and doing a trigger job on a 1911. One takes a minute and makes a crappy trigger less crappy. The other takes a bunch more time and turns a great trigger into a wonderful trigger. I love getting into the deep down details of a 1911 like figuring out the difference between a flat FPS and the normal rounded one in terms of recoil. Or, the whole design around the link and VIS (should the barrel ride the link as some think or should it ride the lower lugs as others think?). Fun stuff there that I'll never get out of a Glock.

I can not get the trigger of a Glock to be my friend. In a life threat situation I am sure I could run it like intended but just shooting them at paper I suck terribly. It is the trigger. I am spoiled rotten.
My H&K USP (.45 ACP) had a better set of ergonomics and I could hit pretty well with it but I am just spoiled rotten with the trigger in a 1911. I am also a recoil junky.....go figure.
I to am fascinated at the workings of the 1911. It can be a beater and still run a mag dead on target if I do my part.

If you like what you own....shoot it. If not, find something you do like and then shoot the hell out of it. They are all machines........maintain them. Enjoy them.

 

[88E30M50]

I can not get the trigger of a Glock to be my friend. In a life threat situation I am sure I could run it like intended but just shooting them at paper I suck terribly. It is the trigger. I am spoiled rotten.
My H&K USP (.45 ACP) had a better set of ergonomics and I could hit pretty well with it but I am just spoiled rotten with the trigger in a 1911. I am also a recoil junky.....go figure.
I to am fascinated at the workings of the 1911. It can be a beater and still run a mag dead on target if I do my part.

If you like what you own....shoot it. If not, find something you do like and then shoot the hell out of it. They are all machines........maintain them. Enjoy them.

One thing that helps me with shooting a Glock is that I had Charlie of CharlieCo fame do a trigger job to it. It's not a 1911, but it sure beats the stock Glock dart gun trigger. I also find that using a Grip Force Adapter makes a Glock point more like a 1911. I really need to add a fake thumb safety to a Glock to make it feel right though.

In the end, you are right. They are all just machines and everyone has different tastes and needs. Find what you like and do your best to wear it out with practice.

 

[NIFT]

Larry Vickers echoes Yam's sentiments on the 1911 platform, calling it a "pain in the 'arse.'"
Read this before you buy your first 1911 | Military Times GearScout

He goes on to say, "If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

 

[churchmouse]

Larry Vickers echoes Yam's sentiments on the 1911 platform, calling it a "pain in the 'arse.'"
Read this before you buy your first 1911 | Military Times GearScout

He goes on to say, "If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

That is just not true.

 

[Rob377]

That is just not true.

When you're selling $1100+ "1911 armorer" courses, it is!

 

[churchmouse]

When you're selling $1100+ "1911 armorer" courses, it is!

I know right.....

 

[88E30M50]

Larry Vickers echoes Yam's sentiments on the 1911 platform, calling it a "pain in the 'arse.'"
Read this before you buy your first 1911 | Military Times GearScout

He goes on to say, "If they don’t like messing around with the pistol and spending a grand to really get it tuned, then they should forget it.”

What kind of junk are they buying that needs a grand to run? Send me an airsoft 1911 that's been cut in half and for under $800, I'll send you back a gun that runs .45 all day long. To do that, I'll toss the airsoft into the trash and send you back a RO, Ruger, Remington or any number of other guns that work well. I think that sometimes pistol smiths get a bit full of themselves and start to assume that any gun they did not build could not possibly be trusted. Seriously, what could you spend a grand on in regards to a Springfield Range Officer that would be solely for reliability?

When all said and done, I put a total of less than $30 into my Remington R1S. $6 of that was to replace the link that I needlessly modified to fix an issue that turned out to be more of a reload issue than a pistol issue. Even the $22 I spend on an EGW angle bored bushing was more to make it feel better than to work better. I did not like the bit of barrel bind when manually racking the slide and the new bushing fixed that and added a bevel to the edge. The gun has north of 800 rounds and is my favorite to shoot and gets carried more than most others.

Anyone that tells you that a 1911 needs a grand put into it to make it reliable enough for carry is either an idiot or is trying to sell you something.

 

[churchmouse]

What kind of junk are they buying that needs a grand to run? Send me an airsoft 1911 that's been cut in half and for under $800, I'll send you back a gun that runs .45 all day long. To do that, I'll toss the airsoft into the trash and send you back a RO, Ruger, Remington or any number of other guns that work well. I think that sometimes pistol smiths get a bit full of themselves and start to assume that any gun they did not build could not possibly be trusted. Seriously, what could you spend a grand on in regards to a Springfield Range Officer that would be solely for reliability?


Anyone that tells you that a 1911 needs a grand put into it to make it reliable enough for carry is either an idiot or is trying to sell you something.

Or both.......

 

[indiucky]

Dang, I hope I can sell mine before the market on them crashes.

For Expat, BBI,Jetgirl and Kirk Freeman......

[video=youtube;d8Oe9SteE3M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8Oe9SteE3M[/video]

 

[cedartop]

So much emotional attachment to the 1911 platform. This conversation reminds me of when the liberals get all mad when a black person espouses conservative beliefs. How dare they, Uncle Tom I say.