My daughters problem

[Doug]

Did they confiscate the pill from the girl that had it in her purse?
If they did every staff member and teacher who touched the pill is guilty of drug possession at a school! They should all be fired and prosecuted!
And if they're not going to fire them, why are they holding the students to stricter standards than the students?

Doug

 

[Principal Skinr]

Did they confiscate the pill from the girl that had it in her purse?
If they did every staff member and teacher who touched the pill is guilty of drug possession at a school! They should all be fired and prosecuted!
And if they're not going to fire them, why are they holding the students to stricter standards than the students?

Doug

You've got a good point. This is a great illustration of the folly of Zero Tolerance.

 

[Bill of Rights]

First, Congratulations and way to go, Rachael. Your parents have good reason to be proud of you and you have even more reason to be proud of yourself, and that's the best reward you can have, pride in a job done well.

IGG, I have some suggestions for you, but you'll need to figure out how best to use them. 1) The other girl came up to your young lady and said, "Look what ______ brought me." Now granted, you look with your eyes, not your hands, but realistically, when someone, especially a friend, goes to hand you something, you automatically extend your hand to take it to inspect whatever it is more closely. You might find a way to use that to your advantage if you know school employment policies, but I'd wager there's something in them about the possession of drugs by school employees as well. Did the principal or any school employee handle the pill? If so, are they being counseled, suspended, terminated? If not, this is hypocrisy.

2) Also, as someone here pointed out, there's probably a school policy against weapons and ammunition. There is no law that I found in the IC about possession of ammunition, but IANAL, so this may fall to your school resource officer, who clearly CAN possess weapons and ammunition on school property; Have him/her hand the principal something that is forbidden to possess there, then ask if he should be arrested for possession? The parallel is good; the LEO is someone the principal trusts, just as your Rachael trusted (hopefully past tense) her friend, the item is forbidden, and the school official was theoretically in "possession". 3) Additionally, I'm quite certain there are laws about the possession of cocaine. I heard not too long ago that some enormous percentage of the cash in circulation, if tested, would test positive for cocaine residue. (I know the number was high, but I don't remember the percentage. I'm going to lowball guess it at 60%) If your school principal and superintendent want to go "holier than thou", merely suggest that they are using and the proof is in their own wallets. Then have LEOs test the cash in question. Yes, I have the capacity to be an evil, vindictive SOB.

4) Now, with those suggestions, Principal Skinr may have the best solution for you: Withdraw your kid(s) and go to a neighboring district, one that doesn't have idiotic policies enforced without regard for a little thing we call uncommon sense (uncommon because it is certainly not common!)

Item last: It is precisely because of lunacy like this that I do not support drug laws. Given a medical need for the information to be given, I will inform the ER physician when I bring an adult patient in who has ingested, injected, inhaled, or absorbed some illicit drug, but while a long time ago, I might have left a written report where a cop could accidentally see it, I cannot do that anymore, either legally or morally/ethically. What an adult citizen puts in his/her body is his/her own business and no one else's. What a child citizen puts in his/her body is or should be determined by his/her doctor and ultimately, parents and no one else. I will support completely efforts to educate and to otherwise proof children against drug usage unless necessary. I do not support legislation nor "zero intelligence policies" that criminalize all when only a small minority are even suspected of the activity in question.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[dburkhead]

Not my usual approach but . . .
[Ben Grimm Voice]
It's Lawyerin' time!
[/Ben Grimm Voice]

 

[shibumiseeker]

Well kudos to Rachael for doing the right thing.

I graduated in 87 and one of the biggest things I got from my school days is that the system as a whole really does not care about individual children. To be sure there are really good teachers and administrators, and here and there are actual good programs. Given what I've heard over the years it's steadily gotten worse in that respect.

I want to preface by saying that I was rarely in trouble in school, and as an adult the worst trouble I've been in was a few speeding tickets over the years two in the last ten years, one when I wasn't actually speeding). I've been a positively contributing member of society and have given far more than I have ever received.

I learned in school that if you engage the system that even if you are completely innocent you will probably get in trouble as well. I learned that the system has a lot of inertia and will crush you if you try to stand up for yourself. I learned that I cannot trust the system to be fair and impartial. I learned that the system will not protect you, and if you try to protect yourself you will get in trouble, but the person trying to hurt you will seem to be immune to trouble.

I took these messages along as an adult and they are deeply ingrained.

 

[Glock32j]

What is the teacher doing at this point? My high school had an office in the locker room where the teacher/coach could over see whats going on. I hope they are pursuing the parents of the other girl. And why would you bring just 1 pill to school and not take it?

 

[Bill of Rights]

Did they confiscate the pill from the girl that had it in her purse?
If they did every staff member and teacher who touched the pill is guilty of drug possession at a school! They should all be fired and prosecuted!
And if they're not going to fire them, why are they holding the students to stricter standards than the students?

Doug

This post has been GMTA repped.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Not my usual approach but . . .
[Ben Grimm Voice]
It's Lawyerin' time!
[/Ben Grimm Voice]

Too soon to rep you.. For those who don't know (is there really someone out there who doesn't????)

And as much as I'd like to avoid this horrid pun....


Ben Grimm ROCKS!

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Bill of Rights]

...
I learned in school that if you engage the system that even if you are completely innocent you will probably get in trouble as well. I learned that the system has a lot of inertia and will crush you if you try to stand up for yourself. I learned that I cannot trust the system to be fair and impartial. I learned that the system will not protect you, and if you try to protect yourself you will get in trouble, but the person trying to hurt you will seem to be immune to trouble.

I took these messages along as an adult and they are deeply ingrained.

I have to wonder if the whole "zero tolerance", "punish both students, no matter who started the fight"/not allowed to defend yourself mentality is part of the reason we see so much distrust amongst the public of LEOs. I have to wonder if this is at least part of the reason so many people in politics are proven dishonest; that is, they discover what you think and feel, shibumiseeker, and as such, engage the system by becoming part of it so as to place or attempt to place themselves above the law.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Mr. Habib]

To the OP, you've done all the right things so far, now it's lawyer time. How about a defamation of character law suit for ruining your daughters reputation by suspending her and making her look like a drug user to the student body and to potential employers and universities. If they believed that she really was in position of illegal drugs and didn't not report her to the police, they may have committed conspiracy to deal in a controlled substance. I wonder how a felony drug arrest would help their careers?

 

[schafe]

To INGUNGUY: Tell Rachael that there are people who don't know her who are praying for a proper resolution to this travesty. Any of us who have tried to raise our kids to be honest,and play by the rules can sympathize with her plight.--- Again, prayers go out to you and especially to her.

 

[wtfd661]

Way to go Rachael and way to go DAD!!!!!!!!!

 

[INGunGuy]

Was she suspected of doing drugs before this incident happened?

How did anyone beyond her and the other girl find out about this?

This also proves the point, don' help the police or any of authority because it will always come back to bite you.

Rachael has never been in any trouble at school before. She doesnt do drugs, as for how things were found out. The story is as follows:

Another student brought in the pills. He then gave the pills to the girl who gave my daughter the pill. There were 3 other students involved. Of all those involved, the one who brought the pills, and the girl who handed them out were sent to juvenile detention. One student took the pill, then later threw it away. The other student actually took the pill, and of course my daughter Rachael said no to the drugs. My daughter along with the other 2 students who touched the pills were suspended.

I agree about not helping the police, or the authority. And both of my children who still are in school have both been told that they are to NEVER make a statement, give a witness report, or offer any assistance until myself or mom are there with her to ensure she doesnt have this happen again.

INGunGuy

 

[Hammer]

Rachael, you did the right thing by handing back the drug and not partaking in the activity. It takes great strength to do that. You have great parents and have been taught well, although you may not like "All" of their rules and teachings you will be better prepared for later on in life with them. So Kudo's to Rachael and her parents.



Another thing to think about is:

If your child is called into the office, have them request a parent present before answering any questions.

 

[Doug]

I recommend the following notice be sent to each principal:

I, Parent's Name, hereby deny my permission for any school official to question my child, Child's Name, about any matter whatsoever unless I am present and have an opportunity to confer with my child in private.

Maybe some smart attorney can find some legal means of enforcing this and/or some invasion of privacy, illegal confinement, child abuse kind of thing to sue over in civil court.

Hammer, the problem is that the teacher can trap the child as easily as the principal. If you are present and the child admits to having touched the pill, they're still suspended. You need to confer because of the tendency of the school to punish the witness as well as the perpetrator. Unfortunately, we must now assume every school employee is trying to trap a student in some admission of guilt.

Doug

 

[Principal Skinr]

I recommend the following notice be sent to each principal:

I, Parent's Name, hereby deny my permission for any school official to question my child, Child's Name, about any matter whatsoever unless I am present and have an opportunity to confer with my child in private.

Maybe some smart attorney can find some legal means of enforcing this and/or some invasion of privacy, illegal confinement, child abuse kind of thing to sue over in civil court.

Hammer, the problem is that the teacher can trap the child as easily as the principal. If you are present and the child admits to having touched the pill, they're still suspended. You need to confer because of the tendency of the school to punish the witness as well as the perpetrator. Unfortunately, we must now assume every school employee is trying to trap a student in some admission of guilt.

Doug

That is just foolish. I'd rather you take your child to a private school if you feel that way. Then, try to get the private school to agree to that. Good luck. At that point, you are ready to home school.

Maybe children should be coached that when their parents question them, they should take the 5th and not say anything unless an attorney is present. After all, parents are always trying to trick kids into an admission of guilt.

Common sense is a rare quality these days.

Sheesh.

 

[jeremy]

I recommend the following notice be sent to each principal:

I, Parent's Name, hereby deny my permission for any school official to question my child, Child's Name, about any matter whatsoever unless I am present and have an opportunity to confer with my child in private.

Maybe some smart attorney can find some legal means of enforcing this and/or some invasion of privacy, illegal confinement, child abuse kind of thing to sue over in civil court.

Hammer, the problem is that the teacher can trap the child as easily as the principal. If you are present and the child admits to having touched the pill, they're still suspended. You need to confer because of the tendency of the school to punish the witness as well as the perpetrator. Unfortunately, we must now assume every school employee is trying to trap a student in some admission of guilt.

Doug

At least drill into the heads of your youth the fact that whatever they say can and will be used against them...

That is just foolish. I'd rather you take your child to a private school if you feel that way. Then, try to get the private school to agree to that. Good luck. At that point, you are ready to home school.

Maybe children should be coached that when their parents question them, they should take the 5th and not say anything unless an attorney is present. After all, parents are always trying to trick kids into an admission of guilt.

Common sense is a rare quality these days.

Sheesh.

If some in Authority positions would exercise common sense. Steps like the above would not be needed either... Two way street...

 

[Principal Skinr]

At least drill into the heads of your youth the fact that whatever they say can and will be used against them...



If some in Authority positions would exercise common sense. Steps like the above would not be needed either... Two way street...

As a parent, I would hope one would take the time to get to know the principal. I know my kids' principals well. That should tell you all you need to know.

One problem though. In loco parentis. You can't tell the school they cannot question your child. When you leave your child at the school, you accept their rules. Imagine if every parent did this. I would not want my child going to that school, because it will be overrun with bad behavior, and the school would be powerless to enforce rules.

Again, common sense. Get involved in your child's school and help make it a better place. If you leave it to others and give no input, you are at the mercy of people who think zero tolerance is a good idea.

 

[Doug]

Maybe children should be coached that when their parents question them, they should take the 5th and not say anything unless an attorney is present. After all, parents are always trying to trick kids into an admission of guilt.

Common sense is a rare quality these days.

Sheesh.

There IS a difference between the parents and a school official. The parents, generally, are more concerned with the child's welfare than with following some no-tolerance rule.

Maybe you're one of the good ones who wouldn't try to trap a student. If so, more power to you. But, you can't always trust the school to do the right thing, as this event shows. And, this event also shows that, yes, common sense IS a rare quality these days, especially in school policies.

Doug

 

[shibumiseeker]

I have to wonder if the whole "zero tolerance", "punish both students, no matter who started the fight"/not allowed to defend yourself mentality is part of the reason we see so much distrust amongst the public of LEOs. I have to wonder if this is at least part of the reason so many people in politics are proven dishonest; that is, they discover what you think and feel, shibumiseeker, and as such, engage the system by becoming part of it so as to place or attempt to place themselves above the law.

Blessings,
Bill

I think this is 100% spot on, both points.

The best you can do is keep your head low and try to avoid being noticed, or join 'em and surf the ride and hope you get through without scandal.