Mueller report delivered

[IndyDave1776]

I would also point out that there are frightening implications of the precedent for anyone within 6 degrees of separation from the president, any president, to be investigated without probable cause to the extent that if he posses behind a tree as a child it will be national news and prosecuted by the president's political enemies.

The most likely outcome I can see is a new class of operatives to work directly in campaigns and in the white house who are squeaky clean, perhaps including the candidate/president himself who are strictly go-between much like lobbyists isolating the real power brokers with skeletons in their closets from the people.

 

[jamil]

Mueller got indictments and/or guilty pleas from 34 individuals and 3 companies. 6 of them are former Trump advisors on their way to prison (5 for sure, one maybe). Mueller kept the focus of the investigation "tight" and didn't wander into the "I can investigate anything I want to investigate"-technique used by Kenneth Starr.

Bad things were done by people who thought themselves outside the law. They got caught and they'll go to prison. In my mind, that's a successful investigation.

It also puts people on BOTH sides of the aisle on notice that manipulation of the electoral process is not without risk.

I really don't care how either side spins it. Mueller did a fairly good job and maintained high standards doing so.

Of the 6, only two committed crimes outside of the investigation itself. Of course it’s no less a crime. But getting yourself an indictment because you were stupid enough to get caught in a perjury trap should not be evaluated on the same level as the ones who committed crimes which were not committed because of the investigation. It’s a crime of arrogance to lie to prosecutors. I mean, if they’re asking the question you should assume they know the answer already.

But I’d have to agree that the Mueller investigation was conducted at least a little more professionally than the Star investigation. The scope of that investigation was supposed to be Whitewater. There’s no reason to have asked Clinton about rumors of affairs. That’s out of scope. As far as I’m aware, Mueller’s perjury traps were at least in scope.

 

[jamil]

I would also point out that there are frightening implications of the precedent for anyone within 6 degrees of separation from the president, any president, to be investigated without probable cause to the extent that if he posses behind a tree as a child it will be national news and prosecuted by the president's political enemies.

The most likely outcome I can see is a new class of operatives to work directly in campaigns and in the white house who are squeaky clean, perhaps including the candidate/president himself who are strictly go-between much like lobbyists isolating the real power brokers with skeletons in their closets from the people.

The probable cause, I thought, was the dossier. Which turned out to be a fraud.

 

[Trigger Time]

A clear attempt by PUBLIC OFFICIALS at all levels some elected, To overthrow a legitimately elected president of the United States of America. Actually even before that as a candidate.
150 years ago people would be hanging from ropes for this if convicted. Today we dont even charge them.
Un-****ingbelieveable

Ive lost so much respect for and faith in our government, courts, federal law enforcement agencies, congress, national agencies.
I think we have a huge problem people. Wolves are in the hen house

 

[churchmouse]

A clear attempt by PUBLIC OFFICIALS at all levels some elected, To overthrow a legitimately elected president of the United States of America. Actually even before that as a candidate.
150 years ago people would be hanging from ropes for this if convicted. Today we dont even charge them.
Un-****ingbelieveable

Seen this coming for some time now. I really took off when the "Coward and chief" put his hand on the bible.

 

[Trigger Time]

Seen this coming for some time now. I really took off when the "Coward and chief" put his hand on the bible.

Yes it did.
And I dont give 2 ****s what some will say or think of me saying this or laugh whatever, but im convinced, without future proof, that Obama wasn't even a natural born citizen.
Does it matter now? No. It just makes it hurt a little worse. Should have never let the bastard in to hurt our country

 

[KG1]

Now, I want to see either successful appeals or pardons for each person convicted as a result of the Mueller probe by virtue of there having been no probable cause to investigate any of them thus their Fourth Amendment rights were flagrantly abused.

Not to mention there were some associated with the Trump campaign that were ruined financially for what amounted to being set up for procedural crimes in an attempt to get at Trump. There were also a few hauled in that were'nt even charged that took a big financial hit just trying to defend themselves. ( Micheal Caputo for example. Former Trump campaign aide)

 

[Trigger Time]

Not to mention there were some associated with the Trump campaign that were ruined financially for what amounted to being set up for procedural crimes in an attempt to get at Trump. There were also a few hauled in that were'nt even charged that took a big financial hit just trying to defend themselves.

Thats the way they work. They know theyre going to **** you and can even if they know you will be found innocent. Theyre getting paid the whole time to put on the best show they can. Just well paid/ovverpaid clowns dancing for the man.
Like bringing charges against good people for other BS reasons. I guess they can look at themselves in the mirror. I couldn't

 

[Hoosierkav]

Mueller got indictments and/or guilty pleas from 34 individuals and 3 companies. 6 of them are former Trump advisors on their way to prison (5 for sure, one maybe).

<SNIP>

^ This is all that matters for those in opposition to President Trump.

"Nearly 40 indictments from the Mueller investigation into President Trump's collusion with Russia"
"More than three dozen people had charged filed against them related to the investigation of Russia's manipulation of the election on behalf of President Trump"
"The Mueller investigation of the Trump-Russia election manipulation found that dozens of people related to the Trump campaign and his businesses had broken the law"

 

[KG1]

Thats the way they work. They know theyre going to **** you and can even if they know you will be found innocent. Theyre getting paid the whole time to put on the best show they can. Just well paid/ovverpaid clowns dancing for the man.
Like bringing charges against good people for other BS reasons. I guess they can look at themselves in the mirror. I couldn't

They play dirty for sure. I'm not totally convinced that Mueller and his team were exactly dealing on the up and up behind the scenes. One example is what they tried to do to Jerome Corsi over the wikileaks DNC email dump and the disemination of the information. Mueller's team wanted to pin something on Trump over that.

He claims they tried to get him to take a plea deal for some bogus procedural crime they could charge him with in exchange for making false statements to buttress their case against Trump but Corsi refused to take any such deal. Said he would rather go to jail than testfiy to what they wanted him to say (basically lie). If I remember correctly Corsi made a big stink at the time and threatned to take legal action against Mueller's team and would'nt you know it the Mueller investigation ended without Corsi being charged.

 

[Leadeye]

When the report goes public there will be plenty of sketchy info for speculation on the part of big media. They, as the ultimate arbitrators of truth, will connect the dots for their listeners even if Mr. Mueller could not.

 

[Libertarian01]

The problem I have with some of the folks who have "plead guilty" is the potential abuse of power from the feds.

Say you run for office. The laws are so convoluted anyone and everyone will break them if you look at them a certain way. Or, everyone can be found not guilty with the right light on it.

As an example, say you receive a birthday party gift from a friend during the election. You have to report all gifts, but you don't think of it because your friends do this on occasion. Not every year, but occasionally. So you don't report it. Did you break the law? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how it's argued.

So now the FBI comes in and questions you about unreported gifts. You don't even think of it so you tell them you haven't received any. You are TELLING THE TRUTH as far as you know. There is NO intent to lie. But alas, you have lied. You forgot. Now they use their power to try to force you to talk about your prominent campaign donor. They can threaten to charge you with lying to the FBI which brings X Years in prison with large fines, OR you can plead guilty to something like Hindering Prosecution and walk with a three (3) month suspended sentence. What do you do? Do you really take a risk of tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, your name being dragged through the mud for MONTHES, then possibly face four (4) years in prison, or take a deal that keeps you out completely?

The FBI may know you had honestly forgotten, but they do not care. They believe you have information on someone they want, whether you do or not is irrelevant. They will use all means available to squeeze you for what they think you know, and who stands up to that kind of pressure. After all, you did receive a couple valuable gifts mixed in that could be used for the campaign during the party and just honestly overlooked them.

I am certainly not suggesting this happens with every plea deal, but it does happen. Just like not everyone executed was innocent of what they were charged with, but DNA evidence has proven it has happened.

Regards,

Doug

 

[Leadeye]

The problem I have with some of the folks who have "plead guilty" is the potential abuse of power from the feds.

Say you run for office. The laws are so convoluted anyone and everyone will break them if you look at them a certain way. Or, everyone can be found not guilty with the right light on it.

As an example, say you receive a birthday party gift from a friend during the election. You have to report all gifts, but you don't think of it because your friends do this on occasion. Not every year, but occasionally. So you don't report it. Did you break the law? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how it's argued.

So now the FBI comes in and questions you about unreported gifts. You don't even think of it so you tell them you haven't received any. You are TELLING THE TRUTH as far as you know. There is NO intent to lie. But alas, you have lied. You forgot. Now they use their power to try to force you to talk about your prominent campaign donor. They can threaten to charge you with lying to the FBI which brings X Years in prison with large fines, OR you can plead guilty to something like Hindering Prosecution and walk with a three (3) month suspended sentence. What do you do? Do you really take a risk of tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, your name being dragged through the mud for MONTHES, then possibly face four (4) years in prison, or take a deal that keeps you out completely?

The FBI may know you had honestly forgotten, but they do not care. They believe you have information on someone they want, whether you do or not is irrelevant. They will use all means available to squeeze you for what they think you know, and who stands up to that kind of pressure. After all, you did receive a couple valuable gifts mixed in that could be used for the campaign during the party and just honestly overlooked them.

I am certainly not suggesting this happens with every plea deal, but it does happen. Just like not everyone executed was innocent of what they were charged with, but DNA evidence has proven it has happened.

Regards,

Doug

I think all of that would depend on the FBI's opinion of you, whether you were perceived as being for or against their interests.

 

[halfmileharry]

I think all of that would depend on the FBI's opinion of you, whether you were perceived as being for or against their interests.

I have to agree that the FBI has a new rules book of their own making.

 

[KG1]

The problem I have with some of the folks who have "plead guilty" is the potential abuse of power from the feds.

Say you run for office. The laws are so convoluted anyone and everyone will break them if you look at them a certain way. Or, everyone can be found not guilty with the right light on it.

As an example, say you receive a birthday party gift from a friend during the election. You have to report all gifts, but you don't think of it because your friends do this on occasion. Not every year, but occasionally. So you don't report it. Did you break the law? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how it's argued.

So now the FBI comes in and questions you about unreported gifts. You don't even think of it so you tell them you haven't received any. You are TELLING THE TRUTH as far as you know. There is NO intent to lie. But alas, you have lied. You forgot. Now they use their power to try to force you to talk about your prominent campaign donor. They can threaten to charge you with lying to the FBI which brings X Years in prison with large fines, OR you can plead guilty to something like Hindering Prosecution and walk with a three (3) month suspended sentence. What do you do? Do you really take a risk of tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, your name being dragged through the mud for MONTHES, then possibly face four (4) years in prison, or take a deal that keeps you out completely?

The FBI may know you had honestly forgotten, but they do not care. They believe you have information on someone they want, whether you do or not is irrelevant. They will use all means available to squeeze you for what they think you know, and who stands up to that kind of pressure. After all, you did receive a couple valuable gifts mixed in that could be used for the campaign during the party and just honestly overlooked them.

I am certainly not suggesting this happens with every plea deal, but it does happen. Just like not everyone executed was innocent of what they were charged with, but DNA evidence has proven it has happened.

Regards,

Doug

They use those tactics to try and get them to "sing" and in some cases "compose" as in what Corsi claimed they tried to get him to do.

 

[Leadeye]

I have to agree that the FBI has a new rules book of their own making.

You could probably apply those motivations to other alphabet agencies as well, but it's bad when the FBI/DOJ sees you as being in conflict with their interests.

When you talk about "deep state" and the government serving it's own interests, as opposed to the people in this country, you get into this territory. I'm reminded of a scene in the movie Clear and Present Danger where a dying Admiral Greer reminds Jack Ryan that he took his oath to the people of this country.

 

[Libertarian01]

I think all of that would depend on the FBI's opinion of you, whether you were perceived as being for or against their interests.

I read an article about the time, just in the last several years, where the FBI cut a deal with a witness who was saying what they wanted to hear.

On the stand it was proven that the witness was lying and committing perjury, the judge dismissed the case against the defendant it was that bad.

And YET, the FBI kept their deal with the witness even though he had been proven lying, because his lie was what they wanted him to say.

I don't know that I trust them very much at all. I DO KNOW that if I'm ever questioned I'm demanding my lawyer present and ain't saying squat until trial, unless my attorney says to.

Regards,

Doug

PS - I'm not talking state and local, only federal.

 

[Trigger Time]

I think all of that would depend on the FBI's opinion of you, whether you were perceived as being for or against their interests.

I dont. FBI has said in previous interviews they didnt believe the person was lying to them or intentionaly trying to deceive them but "special" prosecutors charged and sometimes got convictions anyways.
I think its all about adding to their list of names and they dont care about the pile of innocent bodies left in their path.
I was raised to always respect and obey the law and the police and have always done my damndest to do it but the older and more aware I become the more and more I despise government prosecutors.
There are some that still seem to operate with integrity. Sadly the ones that dont are sought out by politicians for their hit teams

 

[jamil]

The problem I have with some of the folks who have "plead guilty" is the potential abuse of power from the feds.

Say you run for office. The laws are so convoluted anyone and everyone will break them if you look at them a certain way. Or, everyone can be found not guilty with the right light on it.

As an example, say you receive a birthday party gift from a friend during the election. You have to report all gifts, but you don't think of it because your friends do this on occasion. Not every year, but occasionally. So you don't report it. Did you break the law? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how it's argued.

So now the FBI comes in and questions you about unreported gifts. You don't even think of it so you tell them you haven't received any. You are TELLING THE TRUTH as far as you know. There is NO intent to lie. But alas, you have lied. You forgot. Now they use their power to try to force you to talk about your prominent campaign donor. They can threaten to charge you with lying to the FBI which brings X Years in prison with large fines, OR you can plead guilty to something like Hindering Prosecution and walk with a three (3) month suspended sentence. What do you do? Do you really take a risk of tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, your name being dragged through the mud for MONTHES, then possibly face four (4) years in prison, or take a deal that keeps you out completely?

The FBI may know you had honestly forgotten, but they do not care. They believe you have information on someone they want, whether you do or not is irrelevant. They will use all means available to squeeze you for what they think you know, and who stands up to that kind of pressure. After all, you did receive a couple valuable gifts mixed in that could be used for the campaign during the party and just honestly overlooked them.

I am certainly not suggesting this happens with every plea deal, but it does happen. Just like not everyone executed was innocent of what they were charged with, but DNA evidence has proven it has happened.

Regards,

Doug

I think your answer shouldn’t be locked in untill you say, “...final answer”.

 

[Trigger Time]

The whole idea too of snitches is a joke. If i was a juror i would hardly trust someone like that who was getting a plea deal to rat.
Thats a lawyer who couldnt make his own case so now hes re-writing the rules and putting someones freedom at peril on the word of an admitted criminal. and in some cases the govt participated and funded some of those illegal things. Dirty dirty dirty all around.

And some legal mind can come in and justify it with big words and case law but i dont give a ****. Im a normal guy who worked for a living looking into your dirty world and saying something stinks and its not just the defendants