Mossberg 500 Variants vs. Remington 870 variants

[hookedonjeep]

Myself, I have a Mossy 500A. I have fed about 500 shells through it in the last year, and have yet to have a hiccup or problem of any kind. I bought it used, at a show over in Bristol. It had a 30" vented barrel on it at the time, but I swapped it out for a shorter rifled barrel. It was dirty, filthy even, and I picked it up cheap. But, after tearing it down, and a thorough cleaning; it was fit for duty. I have no doubt that it would get the job done. That being said, I kind of like the sound a 12 gauge makes.... it is a very DISTINCTIVE sound...... and if you are somewhere you are not supposed to be, it is dark, and you are not the one that made that sound..... you KNOW it is GAME OVER for your sorry ass!

 

[jforrest]

Want to keep believing that the 870 is some sort of perfect pump shotgun? go right ahead, but I guarantee if you got it out of the closest/safe, blew the dust out of the chamber & started actually using the thing on a regular basis you'd probably come to a different conclusion

No shotgun is perfect, no gun is perfect for that matter, in ergonomics or manufacturing. Imperfect people cannot create a perfect anything. All companies will have their lemons, and no gun is going to perfectly suit the person shooting it. I wanted a solid shotgun that feels best in my hands, meets my needs, and has the quality and rep to go along with that. For me that was the 870.

I guess any one of them millions of 870 owners don't use their shotgun regularly I guess sitting in the closet collecting dust means to hunt deer, rabbit, squirrel, turkey, dove, shoot clay pigeons, and protect my home.

 

[Richard]

Photo illustration.

Here is a photo of a Mossberg 500 notice how the entrance to the magazine tube is completely unobstructed as the loading gate is always in the up position (unless it's chambering a shell), the blue arrow indicates the direction in which a shell would be fed.

And here is the Remington, notice how the loading gate is blocking the entrance to the magazine tube.

The loading gate is being pushed downwards by a spring (directionally marked in red arrows) obstructing the blue directional arrow which is where you would be stuffing a shell into that with your thumb up into the magazine tube to load, causing a pinching action when you pull your thumb back out, the point of pinch is highlighted in yellow.

The really remarkable thing about all of this is the fact that I have had to sit here and explain all of this to people (doing illustrations even) who say they own or have owned an 870.

 

[daddysmallbucks]

870

I want a shotgun with the pistol grip rather than the butt stock. I want the magazine tube, regardless of shot number. And I would like to add the pistol grip pump action tube, those always looked and functioned great. I am having trouble with what barrels as well. 20, 18, etc... This is going to be for home defense, and no laser grips, only light attachments, maybe ghost ring sights, etc.

Home Defense? Close quarters? No need for sights...Just throw some Tactical 8-00BUCK 2 3/4" in that puppy and don't stop shooting until he stops screaming! " 870 ALL THE WAY!" Take the $$ from not buying sights and throw a nice Surefire finger press light on the front. If your interested Ill send you a pic of mine.

 

[jeremy]

The "pinchy" thumb of an 870 is kinda like Garand thumb. Not everyone experiences it but it leaves a lasting impression in your mind.

 

[jforrest]

The loading gate is being pushed downwards by a spring (directionally marked in red arrows) obstructing the blue directional arrow which is where you would be stuffing a shell into that with your thumb up into the magazine tube to load, causing a pinching action when you pull your thumb back out, the point of pinch is highlighted in yellow.

The really remarkable thing about all of this is the fact that I have had to sit here and explain all of this to people (doing illustrations even) who say they own or have owned an 870.

Ok, here is my 870 since you don't believe I have one

The gap from the loading gate to the shell roughly 1/8'' Yes I understand you can pinch your thumb in that gap.

The proper way of loading one in the chamber. *Notice my thumb is holding the loading gate up*

I'm not arguing you can't pinch your thumb, I'm just saying not everyone does as I have never done it. I personally don't know anyone who has pinched their thumb in the loading gate. I shoot this exact 870 all the time, so I load shells in it all the time as well.

My problem is telling people you WILL pinch your thumb. I'm fine with telling people it is possible, that's the kind of information people are looking for when they ask questions, but its not something that happens to everyone.

I respect your opinion as it had happened to you, but not everyone.

 

[shooter521]

I've personally inadventantly racked the slide during recoil while shooting heavy stuff before - but that was operator caused and not failure of the shotguns breech.

That's how come I knew that you had no idea of what it was you were talking about.

A friend of mine had a Model 500 that did the same thing; the pump would "automatically" retract about halfway when shooting heavy loads. To make sure it was mechanical and not operator-induced, we shot the gun one-handed (no contact with the gun's forearm). He contacted Mossberg about the issue, and they claimed it was a "feature" that facilitated faster cycling of the gun. I sh*t you not. He ended up selling the gun shortly thereafter. I had a 500 around the same time, and could not duplicate the phenomenon with mine no matter how hard I tried.

I'm not arguing you can't pinch your thumb, I'm just saying not everyone does as I have never done it. I personally don't know anyone who has pinched their thumb in the loading gate.

For the record - I've owned both an 870 and an 11-87P, and never had the ol' pinchy-pinchy when loading either of them.

I can't believe, given the number of people who have essentially said "they're both good, pick one," that this thread has gone on for 9 pages. Gotta love the internet.

 

[cce1302]

A friend of mine had a Model 500 that did the same thing; the pump would "automatically" retract about halfway when shooting heavy loads. To make sure it was mechanical and not operator-induced, we shot the gun one-handed (no contact with the gun's forearm). He contacted Mossberg about the issue, and they claimed it was a "feature" that facilitated faster cycling of the gun. I sh*t you not. He ended up selling the gun shortly thereafter. I had a 500 around the same time, and could not duplicate the phenomenon with mine no matter how hard I tried.

I'm not sure what the problem is here. Don't you cycle the action when you fire a round? When I'm shooting, I'm pulling the gun back into my shoulder with both hands. When I fire a round, I'm automatically beginning to cycle the action as soon as the round goes off, since pulling the trigger automatically unlocks the action, same as with the 870. The faster you can cycle the action, the faster you can shoot doubles in skeet.

How do you think the Mossberg is supposed to work?

 

[Gungho_1989]

I am not sure why everyone has "circled the wagons" in order to defend the 870's "pinchy" loading gate, but IMHO Remington really needs to redesign it along with a couple other ergonomic problem areas as described in my laundry list.

But I am really not going to waste my time debating either how water isn't wet or how the 870 loading gate doesn't pinch.

Want to keep believing that the 870 is some sort of perfect pump shotgun? go right ahead, but I guarantee if you got it out of the closest/safe, blew the dust out of the chamber & started actually using the thing on a regular basis you'd probably come to a different conclusion

I actually do shoot my 870's.... occasionally... and over the years have put alot of rounds through them. I wouldn't claim any type pf expertise but feel I know where I am at when it comes to a tactical shotgun. Theres a reason or two that the 870 is the Dominant pump out there and it isnt due to uderbidding.
I don't think any one can deny it happens to certain individuals, Just like the surefire/ knoxx slap it exists but there are not many people who experience it. I like what one poster said about M1 thumb, that may be a good comparison.
The only thing I feel Remington can really do to improve the design is to increase the size of the little bitty trigger guard. Any other improvement really can be done easily by the end operator.

 

[Richard]

A friend of mine had a Model 500 that did the same thing; the pump would "automatically" retract about halfway when shooting heavy loads. To make sure it was mechanical and not operator-induced, we shot the gun one-handed (no contact with the gun's forearm). He contacted Mossberg about the issue, and they claimed it was a "feature" that facilitated faster cycling of the gun. I sh*t you not. He ended up selling the gun shortly thereafter. I had a 500 around the same time, and could not duplicate the phenomenon with mine no matter how hard I tried.



For the record - I've owned both an 870 and an 11-87P, and never had the ol' pinchy-pinchy when loading either of them.

I can't believe, given the number of people who have essentially said "they're both good, pick one," that this thread has gone on for 9 pages. Gotta love the internet.

And I know a guy who flys all over the globe on a regular basis in a private jet, in order to make the claim that people who drive SUV's are destroying the planet.

Just saying ...

Neither the Mossberg nor Remington will fire if their locking bolt is not fully engaged.

 

[Richard]

Ok, here is my 870 since you don't believe I have one.

Oh I believed that you owned one, but your photos are of a "brand-new looking" Rem 870.

Which probably means you haven't slanked a lot of shells into the magazine yet.

I've been shooting 870's since the 1980's and while I appreciate your "how to load an 870 without pinching your thumb" tutorial it really was unnecessary for you to go through all of that trouble.

 

[Richard]

I actually do shoot my 870's.... occasionally... and over the years have put alot of rounds through them. I wouldn't claim any type pf expertise but feel I know where I am at when it comes to a tactical shotgun. Theres a reason or two that the 870 is the Dominant pump out there and it isnt due to uderbidding.
I don't think any one can deny it happens to certain individuals, Just like the surefire/ knoxx slap it exists but there are not many people who experience it. I like what one poster said about M1 thumb, that may be a good comparison.
The only thing I feel Remington can really do to improve the design is to increase the size of the little bitty trigger guard. Any other improvement really can be done easily by the end operator.

I am not saying that the 870 isn't a good shotgun, what I am saying is that the ergonomics are alot better on the Mossbergs.

 

[jforrest]

You are right, this shotgun isn't that old I bought it a year ago, but before that I would use my dad's wingmaster. Used that since I have been 14 so I have been shooting 870's for about 8 years now, granted you still have more time but 8 years is plenty to know the gun extremely well.

Part of the reason mine still looks new is because, I clean my guns after I'm done shooting for the day every time, I usually even wipe off as much of the line the shells make on the loading gate. I enjoy cleaning it, so I'll go out to the backyard to shoot a few rounds, gives me an excuse to play with it and clean it.

 

[Richard]

Jforrest,

Well next time you (or anyone else) needs a reason to dirty up your new 870 so you can clean it, you can always come out to FCVCC from 6-10pm on Tuesday nights and shot a little trap with me.

 

[jforrest]

Richard,
Sounds good to me. Then we can debate this face to face! haha
I don't know where FCVCC is though

 

[Richard]

John,

One moment & I'll do the google map thingy.

fall creek valley conservation club - Google Maps

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Home Defense? Close quarters? No need for sights...Just throw some Tactical 8-00BUCK 2 3/4" in that puppy and don't stop shooting until he stops screaming! " 870 ALL THE WAY!" Take the $$ from not buying sights and throw a nice Surefire finger press light on the front. If your interested Ill send you a pic of mine.

Well, there is another debate. What # or type of shot is the best? In my Judge Magnum, I have #4, #6, #7 1/2, and #8, 000 buck, 1/4 oz HP slugs, etc... And I know for bigger gauges, its the same thing. 2.5, 2.75, and 3 in shells. What do you guys use for Home Defense? I can get some Speer LE 12ga ammo from some close family members...

 

[jforrest]

That is a bit of a drive for me. From NW Indiana, Valparaiso to be exact. But if I am ever in the area I will stop buy

 

[Dragon Talon TSi AWD]

Daddysmallbucks, I'll take your offer on that light. I would like to see how it works and if its functional or not for my taste.

 

[jforrest]

Well, there is another debate. What # or type of shot is the best? In my Judge Magnum, I have #4, #6, #7 1/2, and #8, 000 buck, 1/4 oz HP slugs, etc... And I know for bigger gauges, its the same thing. 2.5, 2.75, and 3 in shells. What do you guys use for Home Defense? I can get some Speer LE 12ga ammo from some close family members...

Well I prefer O Buck more BB's and about 12" of penetration. But OO is a viable option. Honestly I think any of them will stop a BG, but only the O Buck and bigger are a pretty sure kill.