More training than guns?

[jsharmon7]

Esrice you are close to the answer... Most of the courses I have been to focus on Defensive Ops from a Civilian Mindset. And the Offensive Ops that were taught were from a LEA mindset. I am not overly concerned about trivial stuff like collateral damage...

But it also went into practices that would be fatal on the field of battle. Mostly minor stuff, Like worrying about where empty mags are, maintenance tips that require a shop to repair a firearm, to advocating shooting repeatedly at a target.

As a soldier it might be days before I can get to a shop for a repair. I can find my empty mags after the fire fight or get more when I get more ammo supplied. While on the Ammo subject don;t know when that might get filled so that 210 rounds that I started the week with might have to last more than a 15 minute fight... Rarely does my selector switch get put into the third spot. Experience has taught me that ammo is a very precious commodity. Sometimes worth more than Gold...

In planning a fight in the Military I try to follow the 5 S's Surprise, Security, Simplicity, Speed, and Severity of action. If you can manage to combine any 3 of these events you can overcome most actions.

Did that help or hurt?! It has been several years since I have gone back to a Civilian class... I imagine things have changed quite a bit...

Thanks for the detailed response, I've been wondering about this topic. How applicable is what you've learned in the military to the life of a private citizen? I.E. do they teach you in the military to defend against an enemy similar to a mugger, home invader, etc? How much time is spent on hand-to-hand combatives in the military? I was never in the military so I have no idea what types of training you're given. Thanks!

 

[Shay]

This is a new goal for me... Sold off the safe queens and plan on taking more training. I'll see some of you this year a few times I'm sure.

I'm still way behind though.

This is a very cool answer. Good for you.

Encouraging people not to buy new guns is tough enough, but selling ones you already own to fund training??? INSANITY!!!!

 

[OneBadV8]

This is a very cool answer. Good for you.

Encouraging people not to buy new guns is tough enough, but selling ones you already own to fund training??? INSANITY!!!!

Not a lot of them, just a few. What can I say, I blame TFin04

 

[TFin04]

Not a lot of them, just a few. What can I say, I blame TFin04

 

[pierce195]

I would have to say after my divorce about 2 years ago, I'm well over the training to gun ratio.

I just got back from the OpTac National SWAT/Sniper Symposium January 15-17 just
outside of Washington DC. It's alway great to get out to DC!

 

[6birds]

I have a good customer in Arizona I visit a few times a year. When I go in March, I'm going back to Gunsite for a few refreshers, 1-day Pistol and 2-day Rifle. I plan on catching up with the guys at Mind Set one of these days too.

 

[shooter521]

I am approaching parity. 23 guns, 20 classes.

 

[theweakerbrother]

I've thought a lot about this and the more I dwell on it, the more I am convicted that I am in dire need of training. As silly as this sounds, I can't "show" my training to my buddies like I can with a new firearm so I get less excited about receiving new kinds of training. I know how wrong this is, so spare me the criticism.

I know, or at least hope, that more training should increase my percentage of survival in a self defense situation. As one who will be reacting, rather than acting, for survival, I (we) are already on the short end of the stick because the attacking party has the upper hand.

Anoter main reason I have neglected training is that it has forced me to examine my morality a bit closer than what I would like to. I am weak, I am fat, I am slow. Training with others makes me a bit self concious as others in the class will surely attribute my poor performance to mere laziness but it is much more than that. I hate dwelling on the fact that in spite of looking relatively healthy, I'm not. This is all a bunch of bull armchair philosophy and I'm not obsessed with other's perception of me but it has prevented me from taking classes.

Money is always a factor but I can now justify that. It is money used to preserve the life of my loved ones and even my own self, potentially.

I am not a new year's resolution type of person. However, one promise I have made to myself is to take at least one class to improve my self defense prepardness.

I will probably always be fat, slow and weak but that is no excuse... I can always be a bit more prepared. Thanks for listening, guys and gals.

 

[Shay]

That was a very honest and heart-felt response. Thank you.

 

[Steve MI]

Good on you

 

[esrice]

Way to say it, Robb!

 

[rhino]

Dude, your only question at this point should be when you're coming to see me and my associates either for a class or private sessions. In addition to the fact that I'm not the greatest physical specimen on the block, we've had more than a few students with limitations of some sort or another. It doesn't matter why and we don't judge anyone, except perhaps by their behavior.

You've expressed some of the same concerns and issues I had when I started my involvement in this area of study. In addition to real physical limitations, I knew I would be judged (sometimes harshly) because of those sometimes just because of my appearance. The idea of a 3-day class in the August heat scared the crap out of me. So far I've not let that stop me. Yeah, I take a seat with me so I can sit when I need to sit. So what? I'm in a much better place because I tried, did my best, and persevered than I would have been had I focused on why I couldn't do it instead. Some things I've had to just say "I can't do that," and some have forced me to find a different way to achieve the same results, but even if a different path, things are better for me.

One of the reasons we chose "Adaptive" for part of our name is because we specifically wanted to be able to adapt to the needs of students. If there is a skill a student can't do safely for whatever reason, we try to find a way for them to accomplish the same goal working within their capabilities. If someone needs to have sessions that are shorter in duration, we can handle that too. In fact, I prefer to do shorter sessions for a variety of reasons. We don't try to force anyone to do anything they can't do safely or that they don't feel comfortable doing.\

The reason why I am posting this instead of sending a private message is because there may be others reading this who are hesitant to commit to formal training because of their limitations, whether real or perceived. We want to make this kind of instruction accessible to those people, many of whom are the most in need of defensive skills because they may lack the ability to retreat altogether. It's one of my personal goals to do this and even to help some come to the realization that they can participate in the "regular" classes as well.

Anoter main reason I have neglected training is that it has forced me to examine my morality a bit closer than what I would like to. I am weak, I am fat, I am slow. Training with others makes me a bit self concious as others in the class will surely attribute my poor performance to mere laziness but it is much more than that. I hate dwelling on the fact that in spite of looking relatively healthy, I'm not. This is all a bunch of bull armchair philosophy and I'm not obsessed with other's perception of me but it has prevented me from taking classes.

 

[Fenway]

I'm just about even.

 

[thompal]

I am weak, I am fat, I am slow. Training with others makes me a bit self concious as others in the class will surely attribute my poor performance to mere laziness but it is much more than that. I hate dwelling on the fact that in spite of looking relatively healthy, I'm not.

I must admit that I am in the same camp. 20-30 years ago might have been a different story, although even then, I was never in tip-top shape. Now, however, being put through the paces alongside an 11 Bravo, for example, would probably result in my untimely demise (or at least a poor showing on the training course). As this is extremely irritating to me (as well as those who would surely be somewhat amused at my verbalizations of discomfort), and is not likely to improve any with age, it has kept me from much training.

 

[Siderite]

Just noticed that this thread had been resurrected from 2008, where I was approaching even. I'm happy to say that I've broken even and I am at +2 for firearms classes, and +5 if we count first-aid/medical classes too.

 

[Shay]

I am at +2 for firearms classes, and +5 if we count first-aid/medical classes too.

I'd say of course medical classes count. You're more likely to need medical skills than gun skills.

 

[jeremy]

I'd say of course medical classes count. You're more likely to need medical skills than gun skills.

Coming from someone who says/does a lot of good stuff. That is probably in the top 5 of all time...

Medical skills are if not more important than gun skills they are at least equal. There is no need to train to be a surgeon, but a definate solid knowledge of first aid is needed...

 

[riverman67]

I'll start by saying that I am at least + 3 on training
And now I'll address what I perceive is part of the issue of folks not seeking training.
I am fat, slow .and sometimes bull headed and stupid . Do I look foolish when attempting a new drill or skill? Yep I have never tried to do it before and no one is going to be perfect the first time every time. That is the point of doing the drill, to get better at something right?
I think that if you get some kind of training, any kind, you will find that most people are lacking in the skill that is being taught and if they aren't they will likely to help you get better.
I haven't taken class yet that I was ridiculed in on embarrassed by anyone, trainer or student , even when I messed something up.
I can recommend ACT Coach , Rhino and Obi John are very good at what they do . I have never regretted taking any of their classes.

 

[mercop]

As riverman said, more than time or money I think it comes down to people not wanted to be embarrassed. Whether you are in third grade or 50 yrs old nobody wants to be made fun of. We go out of our way in classes to build people up, not tear them down. That is the great thing about small group training.

It is no secret that I go out of my way to pressure test what is long standing beliefs in every thing from open hands, to gun and knives. This stuff comes from traditional Martial Arts, military, or police. Sometimes it just fails when applied under the conditions a citizen will need it for.

We test it. And when across the board when we can evidence how students from all different backgrounds and levels of training do the respond the same way...as people. Then we train them and build them up and pressure test it again. They all do better the second time, and now as part of a group feel better about themselves.

The training that you do once in a while is not as important to the things you practice everyday.

If I had to say one thing to people that have not trained it is that most instructors are concerned with making you the best you can be, not picking on you or correcting you. When it comes down to it you will be the only person there.- George

 

[6birds]

"When it comes down to it you will be the only person there."

You said a mouthful there my friend!