Militia Takes Over Wildlife Refuge In Oregon

[bwframe]

That woman is going to get them all killed.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

"Kill us and get it over with"

 

[BogWalker]

Wish I could get a better listen at what the FBI is saying to them. I can barely hear it droning in the background, can't tell what's being said.

The woman on the phone is doing her best. Every time they get riled up she calls them to prayer. Seems to be working for now.

EDIT: Seems like the holdouts are catching on to that tactic.

 

[SMiller]

Feds want to burn then down, they are just taunting them.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*

 

[BogWalker]

Calls gone quiet.

Woops nevermind it's back.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

It sounds like it is getting nasty.

 

[voidsherpa]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOlrSain0lk

Last I heard on the News they were supposed to surrender in the morning, doesn't seem to be the case anymore. As of right now on the live stream they are screaming at the Feds. Really eerie to listen to.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And now Cliven Bundy has been arrested. I don't care what anyone says, the Feds put together a pretty legit op.

Oregon standoff: Protesters may leave Thursday; Cliven Bundy arrested - CNN.com

 

[voidsherpa]

Also, Cliven Bundy arrested. Same charges as the others.

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy arrested by FBI in Portland | OregonLive.com

 

[Kutnupe14]

Also, Cliven Bundy arrested. Same charges as the others.

Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy arrested by FBI in Portland | OregonLive.com

Scooped ya

 

[The Bubba Effect]

The protesters are getting really worn down. This is a disaster.

I think their occupation of the property was a stupid move to begin with, but as an uneducated listener, it sounds like the law on the scene is pushing the protesters, hoping for violence.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

This is riveting.

 

[voidsherpa]

...it sounds like the law on the scene is pushing the protesters, hoping for violence.

No No, they just "can't hear them". Even though they've been talking back and forth..

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Respect for Michele Fiore.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well, I think I know how it's going to go down the next time.

While most non-ranchers seem not to get it, when the feds 'negotiate' like this (and have been for decades):

[video=youtube;qd8hy032uLc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd8hy032uLc[/video]

eventually, things get messy.

 

[BogWalker]

News says they've agreed to surrender at 8am PT. One hour.

 

[jsharmon7]

Well, I think I know how it's going to go down the next time.

While most non-ranchers seem not to get it, when the feds 'negotiate' like this (and have been for decades):

eventually, things get messy.

That's not entirely accurate. Read the book "Stalling for Time" by former FBI agent Gary Noesner. He was a negotiator for 23 years and eventually became Chief Negotiator. Ruby Ridge was a mess and they tried to fix mistakes they made. Waco started off much better, but there was still a disconnect between tactical and negotiations teams. While negotiations was working to get children out, tactical teams were buzzing the compound with helicopters and armored vehicles were doing donuts on Koresh's vehicle. The left hand was doing one thing and the right hand was doing another. People were starting to leave the compound but tactical pressure started to cause problems that undermined negotiations. After that turned out to be another mess, Freeh took over and gave Noesner whatever he needed to accomplish things peacefully. The Republic of Texas incident was a great example of peaceful negotiations which ended well. Even this situation, which is standing at 40 days and counting, has only been violent when Finicum reached for a gun multiple times. Nobody has moved in or fired shots on anybody else involved. Things have changed since the early 90s where federal government negotiations are concerned.

 

[bwframe]

News says they've agreed to surrender at 8am PT. One hour.

Thanks for the time calculation!

 

[IndyDave1776]

That's not entirely accurate. Read the book "Stalling for Time" by former FBI agent Gary Noesner. He was a negotiator for 23 years and eventually became Chief Negotiator. Ruby Ridge was a mess and they tried to fix mistakes they made. Waco started off much better, but there was still a disconnect between tactical and negotiations teams. While negotiations was working to get children out, tactical teams were buzzing the compound with helicopters and armored vehicles were doing donuts on Koresh's vehicle. The left hand was doing one thing and the right hand was doing another. People were starting to leave the compound but tactical pressure started to cause problems that undermined negotiations. After that turned out to be another mess, Freeh took over and gave Noesner whatever he needed to accomplish things peacefully. The Republic of Texas incident was a great example of peaceful negotiations which ended well. Even this situation, which is standing at 40 days and counting, has only been violent when Finicum reached for a gun multiple times. Nobody has moved in or fired shots on anybody else involved. Things have changed since the early 90s where federal government negotiations are concerned.

I would consider this true within the narrow context of making an attempt to arrest people without killing them, and specifically excluding any effort to address the actual problem(s).

Another problem: I will believe that the federal government is behaving as an honest participant the day I see Lon Horiuchi swinging from a five-stranded hemp rope administered by the federal government and not an instant sooner. One's morality is defined to a large extent by what is condoned.