Military To Replace M9 With?

[Colts]

If the Beretta has to go (no sure why it should), then the military should return to 1911's.

Go Colts

 

[Trigger Time]

How would a plastic gun like a glock, hold up in a harsh environment like Iraq? Also, what is the meaning of bacon? One would think that the .40 would be the best.

 

[jsharmon7]

I'm enjoying this caliber debate as I find it quite interesting. Can someone lay odds on who will win between a Navy SEAL armed with a .22 pistol vs. Joe Blow armed with a .45ACP pistol?

 

[jeremy]

How would a plastic gun like a glock, hold up in a harsh environment like Iraq? Also, what is the meaning of bacon? One would think that the .40 would be the best.

Well I guess we know what kinda Person you are who has to ask WTF Bacon is about...
Sigh...

 

[jeremy]

I'm enjoying this caliber debate as I find it quite interesting. Can someone lay odds on who will win between a Navy SEAL armed with a .22 pistol vs. Joe Blow armed with a .45ACP pistol?

Whoever got shot last.....

 

[the1kidd03]

Well I guess we know what kinda Person you are who has to ask WTF Bacon is about...
Sigh...

lol

 

[Destro]

How would a plastic gun like a glock, hold up in a harsh environment like Iraq? Also, what is the meaning of bacon? One would think that the .40 would be the best.

the US Government must think it will be ok, they bought thousands for them

 

[the1kidd03]

How would a plastic gun like a glock, hold up in a harsh environment like Iraq? Also, what is the meaning of bacon? One would think that the .40 would be the best.

From an engineering standpoint...the sand creates an abrasive which will wear down polymer considerably faster than metal....but for that to really matter you're talking about literally rubbing it against sand constantly/consistently.........depending on the chemical composition of certain manufacturers' polymers some may not deal well with high heat, while I've not looked up their exact specs I'm sure they would not make a gun which couldn't handle heat in all "normal" environments...knowing it is likely to see combat in the desert and such....but you know what they say about "assuming"

 

[Destro]

On a serious note I am actually amazed by the number of Posters that Have no Idea how Military Weapons Trails are...

i thought they just went on the internet and took a look at polls

 

[AF Gunner]

I like the idea of we get to pick our own. Hmmmm. I think the problem with that is just like the rest of you one is never enough. LOL

 

[darthfader]

they are using glocks over there right now...

 

[jsharmon7]

Whoever got shot last.....

The point is that the differences in handgun calibers are pretty negligible. The ability of the person firing the shot is much more of a factor than the caliber of the bullet being fired. 9mm vs. 45 doesn't really matter enough to worry about. Of course, I was never in the military to get advanced training in handgun ballistics and see experiments of all the various types of handgun calibers on the human body.

 

[HICKMAN]

I'm enjoying this caliber debate as I find it quite interesting. Can someone lay odds on who will win between a Navy SEAL armed with a .22 pistol vs. Joe Blow armed with a .45ACP pistol?

I would take an "A class" USPSA Single Stack shooter over a SEAL with a .22 in a duel any day.

 

[the1kidd03]

The point is that the differences in handgun calibers are pretty negligible. The ability of the person firing the shot is much more of a factor than the caliber of the bullet being fired. 9mm vs. 45 doesn't really matter enough to worry about. Of course, I was never in the military to get advanced training in handgun ballistics and see experiments of all the various types of handgun calibers on the human body.

eh...no real need if it's not your career choice.......you're right....when weighing the difference between calibers you're throwing in a lot of "what if's"...which doesn't generally apply in the majority of situations...and even at that....a hole in the heart, or in the cerebellum is going to have the same end result, only difference being the amount of time before the end result...in other words, it's all about shot placement....well, so long as the caliber is able to get necessary penetration that is....but anything above .38/.380 is theoretically capable of that with proper ammo

 

[the1kidd03]

I would take an "A class" USPSA Single Stack shooter over a SEAL with a .22 in a dual any day.

lol...in an open duel...probably....insert terrain and not face to face to start....I'll go with SEAL....even with a knife (personal favorite)

 

[jayhawk]

OK
I'll type this real slow so even someone like you can understand it.
As a recent example, Gabby Giffords was shot in the head at close range with a Glock M 19 loaded with WW 115 gr ball ammo.
The bullet passed through without inflicting fatal damage.
In case you missed that, it was in all of the papers.

And I really would like to read those Government funded Nationwide Testing from the last several decades to include LIVE BODY HEADSHOTS.
Since you're aware of their existence I can safely presume they are Public Record and available to all INGO Members.
Please link to the reports.
Or could it be that you're full of ??

Sorry Mike, but anecdotal evidence and bold/capital letters don't trump physics and real world data. Gabby surviving was pretty miraculous and she most certainly was incapacitated. I noticed you didn't reply to the link I provided, which actually had some data attached to it. Here it is again for you: Stopping Power

There is nothing magical about the .45ACP.

 

[bigjross2002]

New service pistol

I don't know what they will replace the M9 with but I'd like to see the .45 make a come back. A smith and wesson M&P45 with safety would be nice. If they stick with the 9mm I would personally want a Sig P226. I seriously doubt they will go back to the .45 though

Didnt the Sig win the competition with Beretta only to lose the contract due to unit price?

I would say that a Glock 35 would be the ultimate personal choice for me. I have a hard time that the military will ever give up the manual saftey thing though. I could see the new FN .45 pistols winning cause they are single/double action and also have a manual safety with decocker.

 

[BumpShadow]

O, O, I want to say something 2!


Ok, ok. Here goes.

First, why would the military go back to a caliber that they already got rid of? .45's were thrown out because women couldn't handle them and military doctrine states that more bullets downrange is better than a few large bullets. Also, whatever new gun they choose will have to shoot nato standard ammo.

If the military was going to choose a new pistol and new caliber, the 5.7 is only option that makes sense. More bullets, armor penetrating, and easy to shoot.

If the military is going to go with a new gun but same caliber, glock would be the gun to go with, because they have an awesome marketing department. O, and the gun is pretty good, I guess. If your into that sort of thing.

Where the gun is made makes zero difference, because most military hardware is made overseas anyway. My

 

[gunowner930]

LOL....338 penetrates body armor still at over 1500 meters....and .380 and .38 special is considered by nearly all of the world ballistics leaders to be the minimum acceptable calibers for self defense...and you really just compared them.....never heard of neural shock huh...let alone witnessed it

I guess I should have purpled that quote, haha. Is comparing a a .338 Lapua to a .380 an extreme example? Yeah, but a lot of people will simply say bigger caliber=bigger holes=more effective without even taking velocity into account. Afterall, .380 does leave a bigger entrance hole.

For those of you longing for the return of the .45 ACP, it aint happening. The military has to want to switch back to the .45, and the rest of NATO would have to want that as well. If we were to switch back to the .45, training would have to be altered, holsters would have to be altered, and hundreds of thousands of pistols would be purchased. And after all that, they get what? A cartridge that is debatably more effective, holds less ammunition, and fires much more expensive ammo? Now, where is the advantage of everyone wants to switch pistols but retain the 9 mm cartridge? Is the M9 really that bad?

 

[.452browning]

Didnt the Sig win the competition with Beretta only to lose the contract due to unit price?

I would say that a Glock 35 would be the ultimate personal choice for me. I have a hard time that the military will ever give up the manual saftey thing though. I could see the new FN .45 pistols winning cause they are single/double action and also have a manual safety with decocker.

I don't know if Sig lost out to Beretta but I wouldnt be suprised. A Sig P226 comes with a hefty price tag compared to a Beretta. Like you I can't see the military giving up the manual safety, but if they do I would imagine the handgun would be DA/SA trigger. The FNP45-USG would be a good candidate, but women and small stature personnel would have a hard time handling the large frame. And i strongly believe the US wouldnt want to p*** on NATO's poptart and switch from the standard 9mm round.

I have no personal experience with the Beretta M9 so I can only go with what I have been told. My brother never carried an M9 overseas. When state-side he was issued an M9, but while in Iraq and Afghanistan he carried a Wilson Combat 1911 .45 with a Insight light on the rail

He told me he used his handgun once in a firefight in Iraq when his M4 took damage when clearing a house. He said he much prefered the 1911 with 8 rounds than the M9 with 15. He carried 5 mags instead of the ordinary 3 giving him 41 rounds. He always said he just felt more comfortable with a 1911 .45 than the beretta 9mm. He rated the Beretta okay and the 1911 excellent.