License, registration.....and religious status?

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I said the same thing. The whole, making a list and sharing it with his church, is pretty creepy though. Definitely over the top.

I know there are several cops/deputies that go to my church. While I've yet to hear about any of them adding speeders to a prayer list, it is quite common for folks to ask the church to pray for members' relatives involved in drug and alcohol problems (most recently), along with those stricken with illness. It's not that uncommon to add folks to the prayer list that don't even attend our church or (maybe) any other church. While it may seem a little odd, I imagine especially to non-believers, it's really not so much.

 

[PaulF]

As a non-believer, I don't mind being put on a prayer list by a friend or family member.

If you honestly think that you are in communication with the creator of the universe, and that I am going to suffer that being's wrath because of my beliefs...I rather appreciate you looking out for me. Thanks!

What at gives me pause about this situation is that the trooper and the woman didn't have a relationship prior to the traffic stop. Taking her information for the prayer list was something of an invasion of privacy, and certainly a misuse of privileged access to information.

If he want to save sinners, he is free to do so on his own time...he'll have more of it, now.

 

[MarkC]

He should've thrown in "you are free to go"....taken 3 steps to his car, turned around, walked back and the asked "do you mind if I talk to you for a sec?l problem solved, lol.

I'm not sure even that would have turned this into a consensual encounter; what would an reasonable person believe they are free to go if he or she was in the motorist's position?

As for another questions that's come up, what is a five minute detention worth? In the Southern District of Indiana, the answer in some past cases has been along the lines of "not much." However, where the trooper (and, ultimately, the agency in many cases) will end up getting whacked is for attorneys fees under the fee-shifting provisions of 42 USC 1988, should she prevail. And, I suspect she's gonna prevail.

Finally, I have a big problem with a law enforcement officer using the coercive power of the state for anything other than advancing state business, no matter how right/proper/good/etc. the cause.

 

[jamil]

I know there are several cops/deputies that go to my church. While I've yet to hear about any of them adding speeders to a prayer list, it is quite common for folks to ask the church to pray for members' relatives involved in drug and alcohol problems (most recently), along with those stricken with illness. It's not that uncommon to add folks to the prayer list that don't even attend our church or (maybe) any other church. While it may seem a little odd, I imagine especially to non-believers, it's really not so much.

I get that. I grew up in the church. Mentioning people that you've come across in the course of your week, and asking your church to pray for them, is one thing. No problem with that at all. What made this creepy was that a officer acting in an official capacity used the stop to get her name, put it on a list, gave that list to his church, and then had church members approach her. If it's just, "I pulled over a lady I'd like you to pray for." That's one thing. But presenting a list of names, I suppose contact information, or whatever else, no. That's over the line.

 

[Mark 1911]

As a non-believer, I don't mind being put on a prayer list by a friend or family member.

If you honestly think that you are in communication with the creator of the universe, and that I am going to suffer that being's wrath because of my beliefs...I rather appreciate you looking out for me. Thanks!

What at gives me pause about this situation is that the trooper and the woman didn't have a relationship prior to the traffic stop. Taking her information for the prayer list was something of an invasion of privacy, and certainly a misuse of privileged access to information.

If he want to save sinners, he is free to do so on his own time...he'll have more of it, now.

I agree with you, as several others have mentioned above, that the trooper should not have used his official capacity as a police officer in this way. There are times when that kind of behavior is appropriate, but not on the job, and because of the nature of his job, especially not on his. That's not what he gets paid for, or the vast majority of us for that matter. A person doing their job with professionalism and integrity has a much greater impact on people and sets a much better example than what the officer did, which could be taken as a from of coercion.

As far as adding folks to prayer lists, I don't keep a written list, but do keep a mental list and I have a time set aside every morning where I recall those names as well as during daily Mass. You have been in my thoughts a lot since yesterday, were in my thoughts and prayers this morning, and at lunch time during Mass. I wish you all the best, and that is my sincere prayer for you as well.

 

[jamil]

I'm not sure even that would have turned this into a consensual encounter; what would an reasonable person believe they are free to go if he or she was in the motorist's position?

As for another questions that's come up, what is a five minute detention worth? In the Southern District of Indiana, the answer in some past cases has been along the lines of "not much." However, where the trooper (and, ultimately, the agency in many cases) will end up getting whacked is for attorneys fees under the fee-shifting provisions of 42 USC 1988, should she prevail. And, I suspect she's gonna prevail.

Finally, I have a big problem with a law enforcement officer using the coercive power of the state for anything other than advancing state business, no matter how right/proper/good/etc. the cause.

Well, I probably would. I suppose you could argue I'm not reasonable.

If an officer tells me I'm free to go, I'll take his word for it and leave. If he says something like, "You're free to go. But if you don't mind, can I talk to you about eternity." I don't feel compelled to stay, and I'd probably thank him for his concern and then decline. It's no different if he said I'm free to go and then wanted to talk about guns or politics. Except, if I'm not in a hurry I might stick around for that.

 

[steveh_131]

I get that. I grew up in the church. Mentioning people that you've come across in the course of your week, and asking your church to pray for them, is one thing. No problem with that at all. What made this creepy was that a officer acting in an official capacity used the stop to get her name, put it on a list, gave that list to his church, and then had church members approach her. If it's just, "I pulled over a lady I'd like you to pray for." That's one thing. But presenting a list of names, I suppose contact information, or whatever else, no. That's over the line.

If he handed out her address or something, I would agree with you.

If he mentioned it in a prayer meeting and a church member happened to know her, that's a bit different.

We don't know either way. Regardless, what he did was inappropriate and I don't support it.

 

[MarkC]

Well, I probably would. I suppose you could argue I'm not reasonable.

If an officer tells me I'm free to go, I'll take his word for it and leave. If he says something like, "You're free to go. But if you don't mind, can I talk to you about eternity." I don't feel compelled to stay, and I'd probably thank him for his concern and then decline. It's no different if he said I'm free to go and then wanted to talk about guns or politics. Except, if I'm not in a hurry I might stick around for that.

True, that's a little more clear that the driver is free to go, but then there's still the problem of the government employee hanging around and doing something way outside of government business. However, when I was in that business, I would sometimes stay and talk with motorists about some stuff like that, but only if they started the conversation. Not surprisingly, interesting cars was often the topic of conversation. People who owned interesting cars often drove them interestingly fast, and they were (sometimes rightly) proud of their nice ride.

 

[searpinski]

As a non-believer, I don't mind being put on a prayer list by a friend or family member.

If you honestly think that you are in communication with the creator of the universe, and that I am going to suffer that being's wrath because of my beliefs...I rather appreciate you looking out for me. Thanks!

What at gives me pause about this situation is that the trooper and the woman didn't have a relationship prior to the traffic stop. Taking her information for the prayer list was something of an invasion of privacy, and certainly a misuse of privileged access to information.

If he want to save sinners, he is free to do so on his own time...he'll have more of it, now.

Another well thought out, concise response. Thank you.

 

[Dead Duck]

I don't know your first name, but there is no doubt you would be welcome in my home.

You and I understand each other better, I think, than we sometimes let on.

It is hard to explain the saturation of the Christian message from the perspective of a non-believer...it is everywhere, and in many ways incredibly uncomfortable. We are constantly reminded that something we cannot see, or feel, or measure, or interact with in any way waits to torture us forever. Every day. Everywhere we look.

It's maddening, honestly. I don't mean that to be condescending, I don't know how else to explain it...If something were to change my mind, please believe me: I will know where to find you.

Christians have every right to broadcast their message, and I support that right. They need to understand that a broadcast message can have a dark side...you want your message to be easy to access, but not suffocate and oppress. The very universality that sounds appealing to the broadcaster can sound appaling to the listener.

This is good to hear. I was afraid "The Word" wasn't getting out there anymore.

Yea, you're right. Isn't it terrible that such an evil message is being saturated to the people. And kids learning about The Ten Commandments and good wholesome bible stories, would just destroy the world as we know it.

I too have reservations about the officer preaching while pulling people over on duty. But to sue over it? No.



BTW-
Be careful how you label "Christians". For instance, many believe that Catholics are NOT true Christians. In fact I've met more Atheists that were X-Catholics than not.

 

[Route 45]

Yea, you're right. Isn't it terrible that such an evil message is being saturated to the people. And kids learning about The Ten Commandments and good wholesome bible stories, would just destroy the world as we know it.

You are inherently worthless, and you need me to save you. If you don't believe what I am telling you, I will torture you for eternity.
Awesome message!

I like good wholesome Bible stories, myself. My favorite might be the one where the 2 daughters get their dad drunk and have sex with him. I saw a movie like that once on the internet.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Ehh, I don't know. In the court documents it states that members of the cops church approached her after the event and said Officer Joe had added her name to the prayer list because she has been naughty.

You don't seem anything wrong with a cop creating a list of full names of people he pulled over to the town church so they can be prayed for?

Line 20 of the complaint.
20. Nevertheless, shortly thereafter Ms. Pyle was approached by someone who attended church with Trooper Hamilton who informed her that Trooper Hamilton had placed her on aprayer list.

Which does not back up your previous statements. Of which she was approached by multiple people, that the officer was submitting lists of full names, or that he asked for her to be added to the prayer list because she was "naughty".

He should've thrown in "you are free to go"....taken 3 steps to his car, turned around, walked back and the asked "do you mind if I talk to you for a sec?l problem solved, lol.

I think I mentioned something similar upthread.

I said the same thing. The whole, making a list and sharing it with his church, is pretty creepy though. Definitely over the top.

Where does it say he was making a list? And sharing it with his church could mean a couple of different things, the church I attend a person can submit a prayer request and have it public (name and reason get posted in the handout) or private which the name and other info is only seen by church officials.

I know there are several cops/deputies that go to my church. While I've yet to hear about any of them adding speeders to a prayer list, it is quite common for folks to ask the church to pray for members' relatives involved in drug and alcohol problems (most recently), along with those stricken with illness. It's not that uncommon to add folks to the prayer list that don't even attend our church or (maybe) any other church. While it may seem a little odd, I imagine especially to non-believers, it's really not so much.

Sounds similar to my church.

What at gives me pause about this situation is that the trooper and the woman didn't have a relationship prior to the traffic stop. Taking her information for the prayer list was something of an invasion of privacy, and certainly a misuse of privileged access to information.

I don't believe that the info would be considered privileged. I'm almost positive that all that info would be public record, call logs, dispatch logs, etc are all public info and are available no later than 24 hrs after.

What made this creepy was that a officer acting in an official capacity used the stop to get her name, put it on a list, gave that list to his church, and then had church members approach her. If it's just, "I pulled over a lady I'd like you to pray for." That's one thing. But presenting a list of names, I suppose contact information, or whatever else, no. That's over the line.

Where did you find that he presented lists of names, had church members approach her, supplied contact info, etc.?

If he handed out her address or something, I would agree with you.

If he mentioned it in a prayer meeting and a church member happened to know her, that's a bit different.

We don't know either way. Regardless, what he did was inappropriate and I don't support it.

Agreed with all of the above.

 

[steveh_131]

You are inherently worthless, and you need me to save you. If you don't believe what I am telling you, I will torture you for eternity. Awesome message!

A perfectly Holy God desires communion with us so much that He suffered the pain and indignity on our behalf so that we could spend eternity with Him - with no suffering on our part. Nothing required but confession and repentance and acceptance of His sacrifice.

I know it doesn't have the same ring to it as your flawed representation, but it has the distinct advantage of being accurate.

I like good wholesome Bible stories, myself. My favorite might be the one where the 2 daughters get their dad drunk and have sex with him. I saw a movie like that once on the internet.

You are correct that the Bible is not a feel-good children's story book.

 

[Route 45]

I know it doesn't have the same ring to it as your flawed representation, but it has the distinct advantage of being accurate.

Well, that is the great thing about religion. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Mark 1911]

Well, that is the great thing about religion. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

Great news. I can throw all my scales, micrometers, and calipers in the trash.

 

[indiucky]

Well, that is the great thing about religion. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

I have actually spent some time studying the science behind the belief in a creator and the history behind the events that took place in Jerusalem 1986 years ago....There are actually a number of things we can make accurate statements about regarding the beginning of the Universe (The Big Bang Theory, the apparent "fine tuning" of the universe etc...) and the events that took place in Jerusalem 2000 years ago...

I caution you on looking into them until you are willing to open your mind that a persons faith can actually be based on reason. The accuracy of what science tells us about the universe and life on earth (the sudden appearance of complicated life forms during the Cambrian explosion, the apparent programming and coding of DNA, etc...) as well as a few indisputable, (even among atheist or agnostic historical scholars) facts regarding the life of Jesus of Nazareth (and the events surround His execution), for one to come to a belief that He may, in fact, be exactly who He says He was...

One still doesn't have to accept it, but there is reason as well as accuracy behind how others may have come to believe...

I do not look down on the Neo-Darwinists but I do think they need to get up to date regarding the discoveries in science and the fossil record that we have learned in the last 150 years....They are becoming dangerously close to being cult like in their defense of a 150 year old theory that's so full of holes that Darwin himself had his doubts, and was classy enough to include those doubts in his book...The Cambrian explosion gave him fits and his hope was that one day soon we would discover the fossil records that would show the transition...Two discoveries, one in BC, Canada and one in China, shows that below the level of the Cambrian there is not much but the tracks of worms...Then BOOM...An explosion of complicated life...All in the blink of an eye in geologic time...

As beautiful as it would be to believe that random mutations over a long period of time created this wonderful, intelligent, good looking, suave, upright, talking ape that is me, I just can't...I don't have that much faith...

IMHO

 

[HoughMade]

You can't plausibly deny "well settled" science.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...8800-report-no-global-warming-228-months.html

 

[steveh_131]

Well, that is the great thing about religion. Accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.

Not really. It's all written down. These are the very basics. You just either A) Didn't read it, or B) Purposely misrepresented it.

 

[Route 45]

Great news. I can throw all my scales, micrometers, and calipers in the trash.

You use scales, micrometers and calipers in your religion? That's interesting. Hadn't heard of that one.

 

[Route 45]

Not really. It's all written down. These are the very basics. You just either A) Didn't read it, or B) Purposely misrepresented it.

If it's written, it must be true, I guess.