License, registration.....and religious status?

[HoughMade]

If it's written, it must be true, I guess.

I'll settle for an acknowledgment that it could be​ true.

 

[PaulF]

A perfectly Holy God desires communion with us so much that He suffered the pain and indignity on our behalf so that we could spend eternity with Him - with no suffering on our part. Nothing required but confession and repentance and acceptance of His sacrifice.

I know it doesn't have the same ring to it as your flawed representation, but it has the distinct advantage of being accurate.

You are leaving quite a bit out here, Steve.

Let's start with that message, here's what it sounds like to an outsider:

The problem with a message of "good news" is that it cannot stand alone. You can't have salvation without having something else from which you require saving. The Christian Bible makes it clear that their god is the creator of everything, so whatever that something else is, it must also have been created by their god.

The actual Christian message is that "loving god" is going to torture every human being that ever lived, unless we have heard of and are willing to exploit the "Jesus Loophole".

The Christian message is horrifying. The only "good news" is that there is no reason to believe that any of it is real.

 

[PaulF]

I'll settle for an acknowledgment that it could be​ true.

2000 years of any day now.

Jesus himself stated that he would return before some people who actually heard him speak would "taste death". (Matthew 16:28)

Whether or not the Jewish "god" exists...the case for the return of Jesus seems pretty shaky. Even the Hebrews of the day said he didn't meet the criteria of "messiah".

I'll settle for an acknowledgement that you could be wrong.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You are leaving quite a bit out here, Steve.

Let's start with that message, here's what it sounds like to an outsider:

The problem with a message of "good news" is that you it cannot stand alone. You can't have salvation without having something else from which you require saving. The Christian Bible makes it clear that their god is the creator of everything, so whatever that something else is, it must also have been created by their god.

The actual Christian message is that "loving god" is going to torture every human being that ever lived, unless we have heard of and are willing to exploit the "Jesus Loophole".

The Christian message is horrifying. The only "good news" is that there is no reason to believe that any of it is real.

Think of it another way. It's really kinda libertarian-like: "here's how it works, I love you and want to be near you and you near Me...all you have to do is x, y, and z and "We're" good. It's your choice. Make your decision and live with the consequences. But by the way...if you change your mind--any time--it's not too late. It's up to you".

 

[HoughMade]

2000 years of any day now.

Jesus himself stated that he would return before some people who actually heard him speak would "taste death". (Matthew 16:28)

Whether or not the Jewish "god" exists...the case for the return of Jesus seems pretty shaky. Even the Hebrews of the day said he didn't meet the criteria of "messiah".

I'll settle for an acknowledgement that you could be wrong.

Me? I'm wrong on a regular basis.

 

[Route 45]

You can't plausibly deny "well settled" science.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...8800-report-no-global-warming-228-months.html

I was going to ask what "global warming" has to do with anything, but now that I think about it, I am glad you mentioned it. It clearly demonstrates the thinking of most people who identify themselves as a conservative or liberal. They have their talking points, and they don't expend any mental energy to consider that people don't fit neatly into one group or another. They've checked all of the boxes for their selected platform, and that's that. No further thinking required. It's easier that way.

I'm sure you think that I believe in the "settled science" of the global warming alarmists. You would be mistaken. Unlike religion, science should never be settled. A true scientist will always endeavor to prove himself wrong. "Settled science" is a term used by politicians to further a political agenda. In fact, the global warming alarmists more closely resemble religious zealots when you think about it. They've made their minds up, and any opposing viewpoint or evidence to the contrary is seen as heresy.

Human nature, I guess. It's a shame.

 

[PaulF]

Me? I'm wrong on a regular basis.

I meant "you" as in "You Christians"...lawyers.

Screw it. I'll take what I can get, councilor.

 

[steveh_131]

If it's written, it must be true, I guess.

This is your second logical fallacy in as many posts. First you started with a straw-man and now you've moved on to red herrings.

You tried to tell me what the Bible says. I pointed out that you are incorrect. I did not claim that because it is written, it must be true.

You are leaving quite a bit out here, Steve.

Let's start with that message, here's what it sounds like to an outsider:

The problem with a message of "good news" is that you it cannot stand alone. You can't have salvation without having something else from which you require saving. The Christian Bible makes it clear that their god is the creator of everything, so whatever that something else is, it must also have been created by their god.

The actual Christian message is that "loving god" is going to torture every human being that ever lived, unless we have heard of and are willing to exploit the "Jesus Loophole".

The Christian message is horrifying. The only "good news" is that there is no reason to believe that any of it is real.

Your viewpoint relies on the assumption that we deserve something other than hell. If we do, in fact, deserve hell - then God is simply doing what is right by sending us there. He made a path for us to avoid it, by his own sacrifice. It is our choice to take that path.

The Christian reality is that we disobey God every single day of our lives. We deserve to go to hell, and His mercy is our only way out.

I do see where you're coming from, and I think it's quite reasonable. It is sometimes difficult for me to wrap my head around as well. However, I've come to the conclusion that God doesn't operate within my moral constraints - I operate within my own feeble understanding of His. I no longer expect God's reasoning to be within my comprehension.

 

[Route 45]

I'll settle for an acknowledgment that it could be​ true.

I don't know the secrets of the universe. I do have a sneaking suspicion that it has nothing to do with talking snakes, bears mauling children for making fun of old bald guys, walking on water, raising people from the dead, and every animal species on earth living withing walking distance of Noah's house.

I guess I could be wrong. There's always that possibility. Heck, I thought Bruce Jenner was a guy. Shows what I know.

 

[jamil]

I meant "you" as in "You Christians"...lawyers.

Screw it. I'll take what I can get, councilor.

Hey, you got an admission of wrongness from a lawyer. That's gotta make a good day in anyone's book.

 

[Route 45]

You are inherently worthless, and you need me to save you. If you don't believe what I am telling you, I will torture you for eternity.

The Christian reality is that we disobey God every single day of our lives. We deserve to go to hell, and His mercy is our only way out.

I see no practical difference between what I wrote and what you wrote.

I do see where you're coming from, and I think it's quite reasonable. It is sometimes difficult for me to wrap my head around as well. However, I've come to the conclusion that God doesn't operate within my moral constraints - I operate within my own feeble understanding of His. I no longer expect God's reasoning to be within my comprehension.

I'm sorry, I just can't shut my brain off like that. To worship something that I can't possibly understand, because a centuries old book tells me to. I suppose that's the essence of faith....to shut up and just believe. If I am wrong in the end, hopefully I will be forgiven for thinking like the flawed creature that I was created to be. I don't hold out much hope for that, though. To create a being with life and emotions....love, laughter, joy and family.....only to throw the soul into a lake of fire for eternity because he was as flawed as you knew he would be....well, that's just plain evil from my point of view.

 

[phylodog]

It would be nice if these discussions could be had without condescension but I guess that's just the way of our society these days.

 

[LPMan59]

It would be nice if these discussions could be had without condescension but I guess that's just the way of our society these days.

That's what happens when everybody thinks they're right.

like politics.

 

[Lowe0]

"But by the way...if you change your mind--any time--it's not too late. It's up to you".

Explicitly false. Once you're dead, at the moment you finally get conclusive proof one way or another, it's already too late. So, if you're someone who wants to see the evidence before accepting something as true, then you're excluded by design.

 

[phylodog]

That's what happens when everybody thinks they're right.

like politics.

Folks can disagree politely, really doesn't take a lot of effort.

 

[Mark 1911]

If you think you can be your own point of reference in the spiritual,then why not in the temporal? At least be consistent.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Explicitly false. Once you're dead, at the moment you finally get conclusive proof one way or another, it's already too late. So, if you're someone who wants to see the evidence before accepting something as true, then you're excluded by design.

I don't know what to tell you.

 

[level.eleven]

Think of it another way. It's really kinda libertarian-like: "here's how it works, I love you and want to be near you and you near Me...all you have to do is x, y, and z and "We're" good. It's your choice. Make your decision and live with the consequences. But by the way...if you change your mind--any time--it's not too late. It's up to you".

Jesus and libertarianism are polar opposites.

 

[Woobie]

I see no practical difference between what I wrote and what you wrote.



I'm sorry, I just can't shut my brain off like that. To worship something that I can't possibly understand, because a centuries old book tells me to. I suppose that's the essence of faith....to shut up and just believe. If I am wrong in the end, hopefully I will be forgiven for thinking like the flawed creature that I was created to be. I don't hold out much hope for that, though. To create a being with life and emotions....love, laughter, joy and family.....only to throw the soul into a lake of fire for eternity because he was as flawed as you knew he would be....well, that's just plain evil from my point of view.

I think that is a fair statement, but only if we ignore Grace. He sacrificed pretty significantly to provide a remedy. That couldn't be classified as evil.

 

[Woobie]

Explicitly false. Once you're dead, at the moment you finally get conclusive proof one way or another, it's already too late. So, if you're someone who wants to see the evidence before accepting something as true, then you're excluded by design.

At some point in everyone's life, we all accept something on faith, without conclusive evidence. Right now you lack conclusive evidence to refute God, and you are staking your immortal soul on your conclusion. I would rather me be wrong and you be right. The consequences are not that bad for me if I'm wrong.