License, registration.....and religious status?

[LPMan59]

Given what Route 45 said, I think it would be an interesting experiment to tell your Christian friends about this story, except report that it was a Muslim cop that did this. Note their reaction, and then tell them that it really was a Christian cop. See how they feel about it then.

Omg you wouldn't have believed the butt hurt when I was at Butler. Everyone had to take a history course called change & tradition. One of the sections involved learning a brief history and explanation of Islam. Other sections included Taoism, confuscisim (sp?), Hinduism, etc

why no unit on Christianity!? Outrage! Butt hurt!

try because every person in this room is probably Christian. And if not, I'm sure they know the basic tenets

 

[Mark 1911]

Yes you are correct. That was not an honest question. You snipped the honest question. That was frustration and snark.

Fair enough. Then lets revisit.

Honest question:

Do you think there is anyone in Indiana that hasn't heard "the word"?

There are three Christian churches within a half a mile of my house, including my official polling location...radio, television, the Internet: all full of "the word". If I want it, I have no problem gaining access to "the word".

LDS, Jehovah's Witness, and a non-denominational Christian "outreach" ministry have all ignored my CLEARLY POSTED "No Soliciting" sign within the last six weeks...all eager to bring "the word" into my living room, whether I wanted it or not.



I have heard "the word"...as a Hoosier it would appear I have no realistic choice otherwise. Now, please tell me...what on Earth does it take to get Christians to keep "the word" to themselves?

Keep in mind that those churches in your vicinity are part and parcel of the same freedom that gave birth to this country. If they didn't exist chances are that neither would you. You say that their presence is "maddening" for you. Yet even if it were possible for those churches to all disappear, if they no longer were part of your world, your frustration would not disappear. You are no different than any other man in that regard. The conflict is not so much about what is going on outside of you, than what is going on within you.

I am an atheist. Despite years of soul-searching and effort I am unable to reconcile the Christian message. When I look into the sky I see stars, not gods. When I close my eyes in prayer, I feel nothing...absolutely nothing. My whole family is Christian. All of my childhood friends were Christian. I have never experienced the connection that they seem to take for granted. It is not for a lack of trying, and it isn't for a lack of exposure to their message...their message, time and again, does not describe the world that I experience. The problem with any message is one cannot control how it is received by the listener...

...In the end, BBI, the Christian message reads simply enough to me: be damned.

You call yourself an atheist, but that is something you have convinced yourself of over time. Jesus sees you as a man, as he sees all of us, in spite of the ideas we may convince ourselves of either correctly or in error. Yet you do feel something, not nothing. You said so in very strong terms. Every man comes to faith in very different ways, and I can not judge your way. But I do know that faith is not about feelings and emotions. Many people have the very serious problem of thinking that when their feelings and emotions are not active, that their faith has somehow disappeared. But feelings and emotions are not faith, not all of us feel in the same way. Peace comes from within, not from without. Christ is in our souls, he doesn't ask permission to be there. And he will not go away, he will never give up on you. Instead of looking at the stars and wondering where he is, just talk to him, he will hear you. Don't use feelings and emotions as the gauge, they are not. But if you talk to him, acknowledge him like any other friend, and there is none better, he will assure you in language that you will clearly understand, that he does hear you, and never leaves you. If you have lived around Christians all your life, than you know the Christian message is not, "be damned". It is "be saved", but one must take the step. One can not at the same time deny that someone exists and yet accept the gift he trying to hand you. You have to reach out your hand. The conflict is not about the churches in your neighborhood, it is not about free men living their lives and making their choices. We all go through difficult times in our faith, but if we give Christ a chance, he will use those difficulties to strengthen us in the end. The conflict is, as is with all of us, on the inside.

 

[Drail]

"Christ is in our souls, he doesn't ask permission to be there..." I think I'm gonna go throw up now.........

 

[jamil]

With all due respect, one must believe before any of that makes any sense. To a non believer it is circular reasoning.

Fair enough. Then lets revisit.



Keep in mind that those churches in your vicinity are part and parcel of the same freedom that gave birth to this country. If they didn't exist chances are that neither would you. You say that their presence is "maddening" for you. Yet even if it were possible for those churches to all disappear, if they no longer were part of your world, your frustration would not disappear. You are no different than any other man in that regard. The conflict is not so much about what is going on outside of you, than what is going on within you.



You call yourself an atheist, but that is something you have convinced yourself of over time. Jesus sees you as a man, as he sees all of us, in spite of the ideas we may convince ourselves of either correctly or in error. Yet you do feel something, not nothing. You said so in very strong terms. Every man comes to faith in very different ways, and I can not judge your way. But I do know that faith is not about feelings and emotions. Many people have the very serious problem of thinking that when their feelings and emotions are not active, that their faith has somehow disappeared. But feelings and emotions are not faith, not all of us feel in the same way. Peace comes from within, not from without. Christ is in our souls, he doesn't ask permission to be there. And he will not go away, he will never give up on you. Instead of looking at the stars and wondering where he is, just talk to him, he will hear you. Don't use feelings and emotions as the gauge, they are not. But if you talk to him, acknowledge him like any other friend, and there is none better, he will assure you in language that you will clearly understand, that he does hear you, and never leaves you. If you have lived around Christians all your life, than you know the Christian message is not, "be damned". It is "be saved", but one must take the step. One can not at the same time deny that someone exists and yet accept the gift he trying to hand you. You have to reach out your hand. The conflict is not about the churches in your neighborhood, it is not about free men living their lives and making their choices. We all go through difficult times in our faith, but if we give Christ a chance, he will use those difficulties to strengthen us in the end. The conflict is, as is with all of us, on the inside.

 

[Route 45]

You can project the currently popular, overly sensitive, whining ***** mentality this country has adopted all you want but you'll be wrong. I've never needed to go find a "safe space" after someone said words I didn't care for. I tend to lean more toward being an adult as well as a man and (gasp) considerate and accepting of the fact that there are lots of different people in this world with different beliefs and values than mine.

It's no lie. I don't cry when people say things I don't like. I also don't overreact to stupid bull****. I have a real life and I don't feel the need to play the role of a victim to garner attention. In spite of the signs to the contrary I still have people from various religions show up at my door. Somehow I can muster the strength to remain polite and decline to listen to their information without spending the rest of my life crying to whomever will listen about how abused I've been.

You are correct in that this was inappropriate. She was absolutely within her rights and should have complained. The officer should have been told to knock it off and provided he did that, that should have been the end of it. Unfortunately this is America where people only feel important if they can paint themselves as a victim. It's as embarrassing as it is disgusting. You can participate all you want, I have better things to do.

So, is she a whining *****, or is she within her rights? Make up your mind.

You can't see past your own nose because you are the one with the badge. I see you didn't say how you would feel about your wife being stopped and introduced to Islam. Interesting.
Various religions showing up to your door has nothing to do with any of this, and neither does the ridiculous "safe space" mentality of the idiot college students that have been in the news lately. This is a legitimate issue. If you can't see the danger in allowing armed agents of the state to promote their personal religion, then I can't help you.

 

[Route 45]

Christ is in our souls, he doesn't ask permission to be there.

The arrogance and condescension in this statement is breathtaking.

If you have lived around Christians all your life, than you know the Christian message is not, "be damned". It is "be saved", but one must take the step.

And I thought only the mafia went around making offers you can't refuse. What do I need to be saved from?

"Nice life you have there. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it."

 

[indiucky]

Ok.

I see it from your side.

I wish you guys would at least try to see things from our side once in awhile...It gets old..

I do...I spent all together roughly 20 years on your side...

But I love history and science and history (and more importantly science) are what brought me back to believing again....Still didn't give Him the invitation...Nope...I was still too cool for that and was willing to be content with just the knowledge.....

Laying on my back in a Louisville hospital, recovering from surgery with the hot breath of the reaper still warm to the touch on my neck...I decided to open my heart to what my brain already had accepted...I will never deserve the Grace that was granted to me...Never....And strange as it sounds...That's the beauty of it...

Like Penn Gillette said, he doesn't respect anyone who is believer that will not share that with others.....If one "truly believes they have the knowledge to better someones life then how much would you have to hate that person to not share it with them?"

My dog died and it hurt me and my family...And you, on a public forum, said you would pray for us for help to get us through that time...I believe you know my daughter is autistic and you know how tough a major transition is for an autistic child...You put aside your own beliefs and doubts for just a moment to offer a prayer to something you don't believe in for me and my family...You will never know how much that meant to me and you can't just "rep" someone for something that poignant...

The other night I was watching an episode of CSI....Grissom is an Atheist and he was investigating the murder of a young girl...She had a terrible illness and it was worsening...The treatment that was coming was going to be awful and as an act of mercy her own brother killed her...Grissom figured it out (scientifically) and confronted her brother...The family was very devout and (I just caught the end) but somehow the kid knew Grissom was an Atheist....As Grissom was putting the cuffs on him the kid kind of laughed and looked at Grissom and said, "You are a funny man sir...You doubt the existence of God yet here you are spending your life doing His work.." Grissom said "How do you mean?" The kid just smiled at him and said, "You provide justice and give voice to those who are silent and gone..."

The show ended with Grissom standing at the door of a Catholic Church and slowly walking up to the altar, bowing his head and kneeling...He was still an Atheist (I assume.) But it seemed he felt he needed to acknowledge something...

As it finished I just grinned and (out loud) said, "Paul"...My wife goes "The Apostle?".....No...Just I guy I know up north....

 

[seagullplayer]

I find it funny what people find offensive.
Living in a free country is not for the weak of heart. Maybe its why we are failing.

Its freedom of religion not from it.

I have zero problem with what the officer did. Says she got a warning ticket, didn't sound like that was based on her response to his questions?
I don't care what religion he was, he was not being derelict in his duties.

If you don't like his idea of God give him yours.
He didn't force anything on anyone.

This is nothing but the work of lawyers telling the gullible they have been wounded in some fashion.

I feel sorry of atheist, they seem to live life being afraid of nothing.

 

[HoughMade]

I just want to point out that I believe that all of the self-proclaimed Christian in this thread (who addressed the original issue) stated that it was wrong for the Trooper to try to have this faith conversation during a traffic stop. this seems like a point of agreement among all of us.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It might technically have been consensual. If the traffic stop is officially over it turns into a consensual encounter. The article states this interaction happened after she received a warning ticket. But hypothetically let's say he gave her the warning and her ID/registration/etc told her to drive safe and have a nice day. Then asked her if she would mind if he asked her a question. Whether that is what happened or not I have no idea. But I have heard of similar being done to fish.

I hear ya but anytime you interact with someone that has whatever authority over you, whether it's casual, or started off as a business like duty and later became consensual/casual, I can hardly blame anyone for fearing whatever might be said would be used against them or that they were still subject to the authority. This is sort of like when you go to a company picnic or Christmas party -- yeah, it's all fun and games, people "letting their hair down" and having a good time but you're still "on the clock" and whatever you say or do can (and from my observations, in my career) come back to haunt you.

The driver(s) broke the law from what I read and deserved to get pulled over. The officer did what he thought was right in ticketing versus warning and that's cool. But to extend the stop any longer than necessary, is not so cool in my book. I consider my self religious and even if I were to get a ticket/warning by an officer, even if he was quite friendly and even if he came right out and said I could leave, I wouldn't want to hang around to talk about his view of faith. It's not the time or the place and he still possesses a badge of authority that might taint any discussions we might have.

 

[PaulF]

You call yourself an atheist, but that is something you have convinced yourself of over time. Jesus sees you as a man, as he sees all of us, in spite of the ideas we may convince ourselves of either correctly or in error. Yet you do feel something, not nothing. You said so in very strong terms. Every man comes to faith in very different ways, and I can not judge your way. But I do know that faith is not about feelings and emotions. Many people have the very serious problem of thinking that when their feelings and emotions are not active, that their faith has somehow disappeared. But feelings and emotions are not faith, not all of us feel in the same way. Peace comes from within, not from without. Christ is in our souls, he doesn't ask permission to be there. And he will not go away, he will never give up on you. Instead of looking at the stars and wondering where he is, just talk to him, he will hear you. Don't use feelings and emotions as the gauge, they are not. But if you talk to him, acknowledge him like any other friend, and there is none better, he will assure you in language that you will clearly understand, that he does hear you, and never leaves you. If you have lived around Christians all your life, than you know the Christian message is not, "be damned". It is "be saved", but one must take the step. One can not at the same time deny that someone exists and yet accept the gift he trying to hand you. You have to reach out your hand. The conflict is not about the churches in your neighborhood, it is not about free men living their lives and making their choices. We all go through difficult times in our faith, but if we give Christ a chance, he will use those difficulties to strengthen us in the end. The conflict is, as is with all of us, on the inside.

Here you illustrate very well the issues that non-believers face on a daily basis.

-You seem to talk past me, not to me, disregarding any attempt I have made to bridge our gap from my end.

-You assert that your world view is correct, and there is no possibility that you could be wrong, even though there are billions of human beings that hold sincere views that run counter to yours.

-You dismiss the sincerity of my (dis)belief.

-You dismiss the sincerity of my attempts to commune with your deity.

-You dismiss the the discrepancy of the religious message at its root: be penitent or be punished.

What happens when someone does all the things they are told to do, and they don't experience the results they are told to expect? Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different result?

Listen to me man...really listen: I have tried. Over and over and over and over and over and...

...nothing.

It is enough to drive a sane person crazy. "Just do this...Jesus listens"

Your methods don't work for me...now what?

The Christian answer is eternal torture at the hands of the loving "God" that I have never been any to find hide nor hair of...that isn't a misreading of the message, that is the message.

Well, I think it's bull****. All of it. Everything that lives will die. Men don't rise from the grave. Men do create gods to fill voids in their knowledge and their experience. We have done it since the beginning of time, and I see no reason why yours in any different.

 

[Route 45]

Its freedom of religion not from it.

There is no freedom of religion if the state is promoting one over another, which is exactly what happened here.

He didn't force anything on anyone.

So, he didn't use his legitimate authority to pull her over? The encounter was non-consensual. Period.

I feel sorry of atheist, they seem to live life being afraid of nothing.

I feel sorry for people who think that they are born worthless and need to be saved from themselves, lest they be thrown in a lake of fire by the source of both the disease and the cure.

 

[OutdoorDad]

There is a credible school of thought that the great commission was a commandment to a group of 11 men at a particular point in time.
There is also a credible school of thought that one should not belabor the point with those who don't care to hear. By design, the road to salvation is narrow. And few find it.

As my favorite uncle used to say "I think we ought to let everyone salt their own eggs."

 

[Mark 1911]

The arrogance and condescension in this statement is breathtaking.



And I thought only the mafia went around making offers you can't refuse. What do I need to be saved from?

"Nice life you have there. It would be a shame if something were to happen to it."

Not any more arrogant than a GM motor being in a GM car. It's not arrogant for a father to look after his own kids.

What is truly arrogant, even nonsensical, is for the kid to reject his own parents.

 

[historian]

Honest question:

Do you think there is anyone in Indiana that hasn't heard "the word"?

Yes. I was stunned, but I have met some.

Sometime, I would like to have a real, FTF conversation with you. These arguments over the internet devolve too quickly and it ends up like a dog chasing its tail. I think these conversations would be/are much better in person. And, guess what, not all of us Christians have that "Experience" that your friends all had/have.

I really hope that we can meet up sometime, for a cheeseburger and some shooting or something. Let me know!

 

[MisterChester]

You wouldn't be so flippant if your wife got pulled over and asked if she knows the truth of Allah as revealed by his prophet, Mohammed, and then got an Islamic pamphlet along with her warning ticket. Go ahead. Lie to me and say that it wouldn't bother you.

An on-duty police officer exercising authority over a citizen in a non-consensual encounter (traffic stop) has no business proselytizing. It is at the very least, wildly inappropriate.

Yeah if this was a Muslim cop the conservative outcry would have been deafening.

 

[Lowe0]

Christ does not ask permission to complicate our lives, but he respects our choice to hear him or not. But when the time comes he will know who gave him an honest hearing, and who was simply looking for a way to silence him.

Forcing something to exist, knowing that it will be subject to infinite torture, isn't respect - it's cruelty.

 

[Route 45]

Forcing something to exist, knowing that it will be subject to infinite torture, isn't respect - it's cruelty.

Mosquitoes are proof of God's love.

 

[PaulF]

I do...I spent all together roughly 20 years on your side...

But I love history and science and history (and more importantly science) are what brought me back to believing again....Still didn't give Him the invitation...Nope...I was still too cool for that and was willing to be content with just the knowledge.....

Laying on my back in a Louisville hospital, recovering from surgery with the hot breath of the reaper still warm to the touch on my neck...I decided to open my heart to what my brain already had accepted...I will never deserve the Grace that was granted to me...Never....And strange as it sounds...That's the beauty of it...

Like Penn Gillette said, he doesn't respect anyone who is believer that will not share that with others.....If one "truly believes they have the knowledge to better someones life then how much would you have to hate that person to not share it with them?"

My dog died and it hurt me and my family...And you, on a public forum, said you would pray for us for help to get us through that time...I believe you know my daughter is autistic and you know how tough a major transition is for an autistic child...You put aside your own beliefs and doubts for just a moment to offer a prayer to something you don't believe in for me and my family...You will never know how much that meant to me and you can't just "rep" someone for something that poignant...

The other night I was watching an episode of CSI....Grissom is an Atheist and he was investigating the murder of a young girl...She had a terrible illness and it was worsening...The treatment that was coming was going to be awful and as an act of mercy her own brother killed her...Grissom figured it out (scientifically) and confronted her brother...The family was very devout and (I just caught the end) but somehow the kid knew Grissom was an Atheist....As Grissom was putting the cuffs on him the kid kind of laughed and looked at Grissom and said, "You are a funny man sir...You doubt the existence of God yet here you are spending your life doing His work.." Grissom said "How do you mean?" The kid just smiled at him and said, "You provide justice and give voice to those who are silent and gone..."

The show ended with Grissom standing at the door of a Catholic Church and slowly walking up to the altar, bowing his head and kneeling...He was still an Atheist (I assume.) But it seemed he felt he needed to acknowledge something...

As it finished I just grinned and (out loud) said, "Paul"...My wife goes "The Apostle?".....No...Just I guy I know up north....

If there is anything I have learned on my short 41 years on this planet, it is that my understanding of my surroundings is imperfect.

When my friends hurt, I hurt. I will attempt to help in any way I can, even if means reaching out to something I'm not sure is there...(or even pretty sure isn't there).

There is common ground here. There is a better way. There is no need to widen the gap. While I am guilty of this in ways, I freely admit it...I am only asking the same of others.

 

[PaulF]

Yes. I was stunned, but I have met some.

Sometime, I would like to have a real, FTF conversation with you. These arguments over the internet devolve too quickly and it ends up like a dog chasing its tail. I think these conversations would be/are much better in person. And, guess what, not all of us Christians have that "Experience" that your friends all had/have.

I really hope that we can meet up sometime, for a cheeseburger and some shooting or something. Let me know!

I'll buy.

Maybe we can get Indyucky in on this, too...might be the first time in history where people of disparate religious beliefs showed up someplace with a bunch of guns without the intent to shoot each other!