Let's see if this generates pro and con views...

[cbseniour]

If she is so anti American that she can't salute the flag, then why in the Hell is she in the military. She had to take an oath the preserve and defend the constitution does that not entail respect the symbol of the country and the constitution.
I'd vote Dishonorable Discharge

 

[Birds Away]

The great thing about the military is that you get all these tacticool clothes, a paycheck, and can then pick and choose what protocols you wish to respect and which you don't. Man, that's livin'!

That certainly wasn't the case while I was in. But things have changed a great deal in nine years.

 

[HoughMade]

That certainly wasn't the case while I was in. But things have changed a great deal in nine years.

I forgot the purple....wasn't that way when I was in either.

 

[Birds Away]

I forgot the purple....wasn't that way when I was in either.

Now when you screw up your boss gets in trouble.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Presidents, historically, have NOT saluted the flag; not even pointing out that the position of CIC, is a civilian one. I only expect uniformed persons, from the military services to the Boy Scouts to salute.

Military veterans have the option to salute the flag whether in uniform or otherwise.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Same here. Seems rather stupid. Not sure of the logic behind it. Maybe she wanted to be discharged? Or a simple lack of horsepower in the brain.



We won't be requiring it either. I've never fully understood the purpose of pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth.

Their allegiance will be to God and family. They will learn to respect liberty, justice, and personal responsibility. They will learn to live and love their fellow Americans and human beings sacrificially.

Flag worship is not yet on the curriculum. I better put on my flame suit, too.

Seriously, how many of you think the Pledge of Allegiance is an oath to the FLAG? ". . . and to the Republic for which it stands . . . "

 

[Blackhawk2001]

The behavior of this particular soldier doesn't surprise me, considering the state of the military and the policies encouraged by our current Commander In Chief, but I saw the same types of behaviors on active service in 2006 among non-combat-arms service personnel. Her actions are certainly deserving of non-judicial punishment; I doubt she'll face a Court Martial over it. Considering her apparent attitude, it's likely this isn't the first bit of trouble she's been in and I imagine she'll accumulate further reasons to discharge her with prejudice if she remains in the service.

 

[Birds Away]

This would be easily corrected with a little peer pressure. Keep the entire unit late for a few days. Have them engaged in training about proper flag etiquette and make them do drills relative to that topic. You only have to do this for a few days and her fellow soldiers will ensure you never have another problem in this regard. Of course, in the new military this is not possible. You will hurt her feelings and that just won't do.

 

[jamil]

This is what I think of it. The flag is a symbol that represents our country. Saluting it is just a symbol of loyalty to the country. Sometimes our leaders do things that make us not so happy with the country. But the flag represents every individual member of the nation. It's not like the flag can possibly represent only what she doesn't agree with.

If she doesn't want to salute the flag, I suppose it can be for different reasons than what we might think. Maybe she doesn't agree with the concept of flags representing a nation, or that she needs to salute it to demonstrate her patriotism. But her post doesn't make that seem likely.

But the question I have is, why should other service men trust her loyalty? Not that saluting guarantees loyalty, but not saluting surely puts in question her motives. But , if she doesn't want to salute the flag, if she doesn't want to show that she's loyal to the nation, what motive caused her to join an organization whose job it is to protect it?

Fine she didnt salute the flag, maybe let that go. Post it for the whole world to see, I still wouldn't get rid of her, she could be digging latrines for the remainder of her service.

Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout. Pragmatic idealism. Boom!

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Is this the thread where I state that I DON'T pledge allegiance to the flag? Or is that best reserved for another?

-J-

 

[Birds Away]

Is this the thread where I state that I DON'T pledge allegiance to the flag? Or is that best reserved for another?

-J-

As far as I am concerned you can pledge your allegiance to your Prius. Knock yourself out.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I have a brother who is a career officer in the Army, and he and I have had many conversations about things like this. He has talked about basic discipline; proper uniform, addressing (and saluting) an officer, and saluting the flag when protocol dictates, and the importance of those things that seem minor to civilians like me, but are very important in the military. He has explained how those things convey a sense of loyalty, not only to country, but to unit (platoon?), officers, and fellow soldiers. It's like saying "I have personal beliefs, but my loyalty to you will never waver". And we civilians may never really understand the importance of that. For that reason, as a civilian, I would never question the attitude of military people towards the actions of the young woman.

As a civilian, these things are different for me. If I'm at a high school game or something and they get ready for the Anthem, I would never show disrespect by leaving my hat on, but I don't really feel like kicking the guys who leave there's on, I just might give a look maybe. But I also know that guy owes no loyalty to me, nor I to him, and it doesn't automatically mean he's a bad guy, maybe he just has really embarrassing "hat hair" or a big bald spot.

 

[Kagnew]

This thread has been a real eye-opener, I'll say that. I guess that some of my assumptions regarding a lot of the people on this forum were way off base.

 

[jamil]

I have a brother who is a career officer in the Army, and he and I have had many conversations about things like this. He has talked about basic discipline; proper uniform, addressing (and saluting) an officer, and saluting the flag when protocol dictates, and the importance of those things that seem minor to civilians like me, but are very important in the military. He has explained how those things convey a sense of loyalty, not only to country, but to unit (platoon?), officers, and fellow soldiers. It's like saying "I have personal beliefs, but my loyalty to you will never waver". And we civilians may never really understand the importance of that. For that reason, as a civilian, I would never question the attitude of military people towards the actions of the young woman.

As a civilian, these things are different for me. If I'm at a high school game or something and they get ready for the Anthem, I would never show disrespect by leaving my hat on, but I don't really feel like kicking the guys who leave there's on, I just might give a look maybe. But I also know that guy owes no loyalty to me, nor I to him, and it doesn't automatically mean he's a bad guy, maybe he just has really embarrassing "hat hair" or a big bald spot.

This is kinda what I was getting at. As a civilians, I don't get upset if people don't respect the same things I respect. But as service men and women, there's a different meaning associated with it. As a serviceman, I would doubt that she's got my back if it came to that.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I am curious if those calling for a dishonorable discharge fully understand the severity. That is more than you would get for punching your boss or getting multiple DUI's. Dishonorable usually goes along with a serious crime, not laziness and disrespect to protocol. Article 15 is the normal punishment and before social media nobody would get all worked up. Poges will be poges.

 

[Kart29]

I'm with several others here. I won't pledge allegiance to the flag. I will tell my home schooled sons not to do it either. The Republic, for all intents and purposes, is dead. My allegiance is to God, my family, my duty to my friends and neighbors. And I will strive to be the best citizen I can be. That will never change. The flag is just an icon for something that is changeable and could be good or evil at different times. Lately I'm thinking our current federal government is somewhat more evil than good. Afterall, even the Roman empire started out as a good thing.

Maybe some of us take a pledge a little more seriously and have considered the potential long term consequences of making oaths and then standing by those oaths no matter what.

 

[88GT]

Seriously, how many of you think the Pledge of Allegiance is an oath to the FLAG? ". . . and to the Republic for which it stands . . . "

It's not often you and I disagree, but this is one of those few times. Considering the very first words of the same pledge from which you pulled that partial quote begins thus, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America...." how can you argue that it is not an oath to the flag? Yes, it includes the republic. But it also includes the flag. My reasons for not requiring, however, have little to do with the wording and the idea that one is pledging loyalty to a piece of cloth. Nor should my choice not to include the pledge in our school be considered to indicate anything about my loyalty or patriotism.

Is this the thread where I state that I DON'T pledge allegiance to the flag? Or is that best reserved for another?

-J-

This one is fine. But we're small in numbers. And apparently it's open season on us as well.

 

[actaeon277]

I'm with several others here. I won't pledge allegiance to the flag. I will tell my home schooled sons not to do it either. The Republic, for all intents and purposes, is dead. My allegiance is to God, my family, my duty to my friends and neighbors. And I will strive to be the best citizen I can be. That will never change. The flag is just an icon for something that is changeable and could be good or evil at different times. Lately I'm thinking our current federal government is somewhat more evil than good. Afterall, even the Roman empire started out as a good thing.

Maybe some of us take a pledge a little more seriously and have considered the potential long term consequences of making oaths and then standing by those oaths no matter what.

The story was not about you or your children.
Or a civilian.
It was about a person that voluntarily joined a branch of the military.
If you don't like to salute a flag, don't join.
Disobeying a Lawful Order is one of the serious offenses.
You can NOT pick and choose the orders, as long as they are lawful.

 

[Double T]

I am not military, was not allowed due to medical reasons, but I have always been taught to take of your hat for the national anthem, pledge, or when the color guard rolls through. It's the least I can do considering so many before me were able to serve and paid a hefty price for my freedom, and continue to do so.

My children will learn respect and reverence for the same things. It upsets me when people don't take off their hats for national anthem/color guard and whatnot.

Patriotism, and love of country and countrymen, are not something we should throw aside. I love our country. Regardless of all the **** that we go through, I would still much rather live here than any other country in the world, and as such, I will always participate in these "rituals" as someone will say.

 

[hornadylnl]

I am not military, was not allowed due to medical reasons, but I have always been taught to take of your hat for the national anthem, pledge, or when the color guard rolls through. It's the least I can do considering so many before me were able to serve and paid a hefty price for my freedom, and continue to do so.

My children will learn respect and reverence for the same things. It upsets me when people don't take off their hats for national anthem/color guard and whatnot.

Patriotism, and love of country and countrymen, are not something we should throw aside. I love our country. Regardless of all the **** that we go through, I would still much rather live here than any other country in the world, and as such, I will always participate in these "rituals" as someone will say.

The problem with rituals and traditions is that the act of the ritual and tradition becomes more important than the purpose of it.