Let's see if this generates pro and con views...

[Kagnew]

... if you're inside a vehicle, stop (if moving) and sit quietly until music ends. ... With all that said, sit in your car during retreat, that's fine.

Is that right? Zooms must have different rules than ground-pounders do, unless they've changed the AR. We were taught that, on hearing Retreat, you were to pull over, stop, get out, face the flag (or the music), and come to parade rest. Upon the firing of the salute gun you were to come to attention, render a hand salute upon the first note of To The Colors, and hold the salute until after the last note of To The Colors.

I guess the Air Force is allowed to have pack howitzers to use for salute guns, aren't they?

 

[Kutnupe14]

If she can't salute the flag that she "defends", then send her ass back to Mcdonalds. I hear they don't have to salute anything.

I'd be fine with finding out who her officer is and having her removed.

She's a lot like our President... not saluting the flag.

Presidents, historically, have NOT saluted the flag; not even pointing out that the position of CIC, is a civilian one. I only expect uniformed persons, from the military services to the Boy Scouts to salute.

 

[Kutnupe14]

...our courty shouldn't be a collection of mindless nationalists.

 

[Classic]

Wouldn't you like to have that next to you in a foxhole?

 

[KellyinAvon]

Is that right? Zooms must have different rules than ground-pounders do, unless they've changed the AR. We were taught that, on hearing Retreat, you were to pull over, stop, get out, face the flag (or the music), and come to parade rest. Upon the firing of the salute gun you were to come to attention, render a hand salute upon the first note of To The Colors, and hold the salute until after the last note of To The Colors.

I guess the Air Force is allowed to have pack howitzers to use for salute guns, aren't they?

USAF says stay in the car. And we have howitzers, 105MMs on AC-130s. We don't fire them between retreat and National Anthem/To the Colors.

 

[BogWalker]

Is it really that big of a deal to her to salute the flag? She's clearly acknowledging she thinks it's disrespectful to do it and that she thinks she's cool for doing it! Otherwise why post the selfie? Clearly think she's "edgy" for disrespecting the nation. Not saluting the flag is one thing, but bragging about it?

 

[actaeon277]

Yeah, this.

I'm more confused than angered. I opted not to require the Pledge of Allegiance in our homeschool. Let me go don my chastity belt and breast plate as I see the groin-kickers are already present and accounted for.

You and your children are civilians. Different rules.
If you or they choose not to, you are exercising freedom to do or not to do something.
People joining the military give up most of those freedoms temporarily.
There is no right to free speech in the military.
There is no right to bear arms in the military.
The list goes on.

Well, you're just one Hell of a guy, aren't you?

Ummmmmm. Girl.
She has an innie, not an outie.

Hi all, KellyinAvon, SMSgt, USAF (retired) here. First of all, on a military base and in uniform, there are certain courtesies that are required. Initiating a salute to an officer, showing respect for the flag during reveille and retreat are learned on DAY ONE IN THE MILITARY!!!! With that said, if you're inside a vehicle, stop (if moving) and sit quietly until music ends. Inside a building, don't exit until music ends. Some really gung-ho types will elbow their way outside, I never did. The day before my retirement I was standing in the shade of an F-86 static display at Airpower Park, Langley AFB, Virginia when retreat played at 1700 (that's 5 pm). Not because I had to, but I knew that would be the last time I did that.


With all that said, sit in your car during retreat, that's fine. Post a selfie to social media while in uniform, talking **** about avoiding saluting the flag? Unacceptable. It embarrassed me that this dweeb who was 12 when I retired conducted herself in such an unprofessional manner FOR THE WHOLE F-ING WORLD TO SEE, AND TALKED SHYTE ABOUT IT!! Hopefully the First Sergeant in whatever unit this individual is assigned to can make a point that won't be forgotten. I have the feeling it may be a waste of time.

She can't say she didn't know. You're right. For her to have "missed" that part of training, over and over, the odds are so astronomical.
Then posting it. Clearly showing what a bad ass she is.

It's not about patriotism, it's about certain requirements of the military. Simple solution: boot her butt out. Bye, bye.

Personally, I always enjoyed saluting "To the Colors," after "Retreat." Check this out:

Robin Williams as troops "Retreat" at Camp Arifjan, Kuwait - YouTube

Yup. She coulda stayed a civilian. Then she coulda not stood or placed hand over heart or whatever.
But she joined.
Don't want to deal with ****. Don't be a farmer.

One of the things I loved about that video.
When retreat sounded, and everyone turned around, Robin Williams SHUT UP.
A lot of personalities on a stage, would have kept talking. "What's going on" or something to that effect.
Robin Williams waited. The best thing.

Presidents, historically, have NOT saluted the flag; not even pointing out that the position of CIC, is a civilian one. I only expect uniformed persons, from the military services to the Boy Scouts to salute.

The President is kinda in an awkward spot there. As a civilian, he does not salute.
But, as the Commander in Chief, he is saluted. And salutes are typically returned in some way.
I can understand a President being on the spot there.
Personally, I think the President should return the salute. He is returning the salute, as the Commander in Chief.
But, if he did that, then people would be complaining that he saluted, and he didn't serve.
Once again, what a quandary.

...our courty shouldn't be a collection of mindless nationalists.

A person in the military saluting the flag is a mindless nationalist? Not sure I understand.

Is it really that big of a deal to her to salute the flag? She's clearly acknowledging she thinks it's disrespectful to do it and that she thinks she's cool for doing it! Otherwise why post the selfie? Clearly think she's "edgy" for disrespecting the nation. Not saluting the flag is one thing, but bragging about it?

It is no big deal to salute the flag.
It IS a big deal not to salute.

 

[HoughMade]

Out on the street as a civilian, her freedom to express, no matter what we think of it, is sacrosanct.

She is not a civilian out on the street. Her choice to be where she is. Time to live up to the commitment that she freely made.

 

[steveh_131]

Yeah, this. I'm more confused than angered.

Same here. Seems rather stupid. Not sure of the logic behind it. Maybe she wanted to be discharged? Or a simple lack of horsepower in the brain.

I opted not to require the Pledge of Allegiance in our homeschool. Let me go don my chastity belt and breast plate as I see the groin-kickers are already present and accounted for.

We won't be requiring it either. I've never fully understood the purpose of pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth.

Their allegiance will be to God and family. They will learn to respect liberty, justice, and personal responsibility. They will learn to live and love their fellow Americans and human beings sacrificially.

Flag worship is not yet on the curriculum. I better put on my flame suit, too.

 

[rambone]

 

[Kagnew]

USAF says stay in the car. And we have howitzers, 105MMs on AC-130s. We don't fire them between retreat and National Anthem/To the Colors.

No salute gun? Tsk, tsk. No wonder you guys got kicked out of the Army.

 

[88GT]

I love this. It's both bitingly mocking and appropriately patriotic all in one.

 

[dross]

Same here. Seems rather stupid. Not sure of the logic behind it. Maybe she wanted to be discharged? Or a simple lack of horsepower in the brain.



We won't be requiring it either. I've never fully understood the purpose of pledging allegiance to a piece of cloth.

Their allegiance will be to God and family. They will learn to respect liberty, justice, and personal responsibility. They will learn to live and love their fellow Americans and human beings sacrificially.

Flag worship is not yet on the curriculum. I better put on my flame suit, too.

"...and to the Republic, for which it stands..."

If it were just about the flag, I wouldn't like it either. Because of that second line, I say it happily when the opportunity arises. And as I explained to my 7 year old daughter, it ain't about the cloth.

I like these little rituals. While it can be mindless, it doesn't have to be.

 

[dross]

I love this. It's both bitingly mocking and appropriately patriotic all in one.

I don't find it to be mocking.

 

[RockofStrength]

By all means, continue championing a pledge written by an open Socialist who devised it as an "inoculation that would protect immigrants and native-born but insufficiently patriotic Americans from the 'virus' of radicalism and subversion."

Class act.

 

[88GT]

I don't find it to be mocking.

beauty of interpretation.

 

[scootn103]

She must want the benefits of the military or education assistance or who knows what, but it is clear she does not believe in what the flag stands for . She should NOT receive the benefits our True soldiers get.

 

[Birds Away]

I served under that flag for 26 years and, although I honor the traditions associated with it, it's still a piece of cloth to me. What's important is what it represents. I may not like flag burning but would, as they say, defend your right to burn it as an expression of free speech.

 

[JetGirl]

[video=youtube;UhkMwAhIOcU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhkMwAhIOcU[/video]

 

[HoughMade]

The great thing about the military is that you get all these tacticool clothes, a paycheck, and can then pick and choose what protocols you wish to respect and which you don't. Man, that's livin'!

"Ike said what? My personal view of freedom and liberty does not require me to cross beaches and climb cliffs under fire. What's this war about if I cannot exercise my personal autonomy to stay in England? Why, if they compel me to go over there, that's an attack on my personhood. Police State! Police State! Now where's my paycheck?"