Leaving gun in vehicle at work? Fired

[actaeon277]

If this company is not an excluded company, per IC, it would be illegal for them to fire you. End of story. It does not matter if they train the police, if they train the Navy SEALs, or if they own the city. If you are fired from a company that is not excluded, by law you may sue for damages and legal fees. Show me otherwise and I will admit I am wrong, until then it's all illegal.

The company mentioned, that trains the PD, is excluded.

 

[indytechnerd]

...If you go to a friend's house and they tell you not to carry around their family, and ask you to leave cause you do, wonder what will happen if you don't leave? Does your rights trump theirs?

It's more like you go to someone's house, they say "you are not allowed here because you have a concealed gun", you say "ok, I'm leaving", then they say "not until you show us the concealed gun we know you're carrying" while pointing their own guns at you.

The company mentioned, that trains the PD, is excluded.

Maybe it's been mentioned, maybe it hasn't, but if it hasn't, stop beating around the bush and name the company/facility. You're saying a private, parking-lot-law-excluded company trains your local police department, and their security staff have the authority to detain at gunpoint. I, and a lot of others here, think that statement smells a bit off.

I'd still LOVE for someone to clarify the legality of a security guard (excluded property or otherwise) holding me at gunpoint stopping me from leaving a place that I've just been instructed to leave.

 

[dansgotguns]

Clearly he does not realize that a lot of security are moonlighting LEO's, and people who take their job seriously enough to train for it, even though it may be a low paying job.

I know a lot of businesses that hire off duty LEO's, including my employer, which everyone is a off duty LEO.

Don't classify everyone working security as a Paul Blart , it could very well be one of the worst decisions of your life.

If this company is not an excluded company, per IC, it would be illegal for them to fire you. End of story. It does not matter if they train the police, if they train the Navy SEALs, or if they own the city. If you are fired from a company that is not excluded, by law you may sue for damages and legal fees. Show me otherwise and I will admit I am wrong, until then it's all illegal.

First of all it has been said numerous times that thecompany is excluded. Also, to say that if your detained under suspicion of possessing stolen property you will run the gate and any security guard in your way, oh and you'll sue its just ignorant, unlikely thst you would do so, and no chance you would win, with a minute chance you wouldn't be shot by a patrol officer for trying to commit homicide with an automobile.

 

[repeter1977]

It's more like you go to someone's house, they say "you are not allowed here because you have a concealed gun", you say "ok, I'm leaving", then they say "not until you show us the concealed gun we know you're carrying" while pointing their own guns at you.


Maybe it's been mentioned, maybe it hasn't, but if it hasn't, stop beating around the bush and name the company/facility. You're saying a private, parking-lot-law-excluded company trains your local police department, and their security staff have the authority to detain at gunpoint. I, and a lot of others here, think that statement smells a bit off.

I'd still LOVE for someone to clarify the legality of a security guard (excluded property or otherwise) holding me at gunpoint stopping me from leaving a place that I've just been instructed to leave.

Well, actually, since its a place of business that had already had a no gun policy (if its the place Im thinking of) then that would be your friend telling you, not to come over with your firearm. You come over with your firearm, wave it around, pointing it at the kid, asking what he is going to do. Your friend detains you for the police. Granted, not what happened, but since we are going hypothetical....

As for the place, its been mentioned that they are covered because they are have a port, and thus fall under the Homeland Security for what they can and cannot have in their vehicles. If you agree to it, then complain about your rights, then you shouldn't work there. Just like if you don't like unions, then don't work for a place that has a union and you have to be a member of. Yep, might not be able to exercise your right, or make more money, but stand up for what you believe in, and can afford. If you cannot afford to stand on principle, then sounds like you are going to have to deal with the BS that comes along with making those big bucks.

 

[T2D4]

If this company is not an excluded company, per IC, it would be illegal for them to fire you. End of story. It does not matter if they train the police, if they train the Navy SEALs, or if they own the city. If you are fired from a company that is not excluded, by law you may sue for damages and legal fees. Show me otherwise and I will admit I am wrong, until then it's all illegal.

well, we know that you don't practice law for a living.

 

[actaeon277]

The name of the company is withheld, because they pay people to troll the internet, looking for employees, management, and contractors that bad mouth them.
A lot of companies have that policy.

 

[dansgotguns]

Someone rep t2d4 I have to spread some round

 

[indytechnerd]

Well, actually, since its a place of business that had already had a no gun policy (if its the place Im thinking of) then that would be your friend telling you, not to come over with your firearm. You come over with your firearm, wave it around, pointing it at the kid, asking what he is going to do. Your friend detains you for the police. Granted, not what happened, but since we are going hypothetical....

As for the place, its been mentioned that they are covered because they are have a port, and thus fall under the Homeland Security for what they can and cannot have in their vehicles. If you agree to it, then complain about your rights, then you shouldn't work there. Just like if you don't like unions, then don't work for a place that has a union and you have to be a member of. Yep, might not be able to exercise your right, or make more money, but stand up for what you believe in, and can afford. If you cannot afford to stand on principle, then sounds like you are going to have to deal with the BS that comes along with making those big bucks.

So wait, the gun is out in the open? As I recall, OP said in the vehicle, and my example was similar, concealed. Of course, excluded location or not, if you go waving your piece around at folks, it's gonna end badly for you. My response to the underlined above:

However, let's assume for a minute that I DO NOT have a weapon in my vehicle...

Someone tattles to mgmt. (erroneously) that I carry a weapon in my car every day. I pull into work, get waved over by the gate guard, and told that I'm going to be searched. Now, I refuse. Maybe I've got some paperwork in my car because I'm interviewing with another company, maybe I just picked up the new issue of Sexy Midgets and Sheep, who knows. Either way, I'd really rather not have my car searched. The guard calls HR, let's the know what's going on. HR says to detain me. If I'm correct based on your posts and others above, and tell me if I'm not, Mr. Securitas can unholster his weapon, point it at me, and hold me until such time as 5-0 arrives, and I have ZERO recourse, and least in the immediate term. Again, I'm questioning the legality of this detention. Are the security guards sworn merit officers of a local, state, or federal agency? If not, are they entitled under some specific Indiana Code to detain at will? If your gonna bring "Citizen's Arrest", it has to be something witnessed by the individual, and needs to be 100% air tight, otherwise someone's arse is in a sling.

 

[HotD]

Clearly he does not realize that a lot of security are moonlighting LEO's, and people who take their job seriously enough to train for it, even though it may be a low paying job.

I know a lot of businesses that hire off duty LEO's, including my employer, which everyone is a off duty LEO.

Don't classify everyone working security as a Paul Blart , it could very well be one of the worst decisions of your life.

Stop. Look at my post again.

Are you stating that more than 1% of all security guards are "off duty cops"? Are you also stating that a non LEO private security guard, by definition, can't be qualified in the use of lethal and non lethal force?

1. There are approximately 2 million security guards within the U.S. Of course, this number includes LE officers already moonlighting as a guard.
2. There are approximately approximately 1.2 million full time and part time state and local LE officers within the U.S.

Pray tell, inform us what percentage of security guards within the U.S. are qualified to utilize deadly and non lethal force? My estimate is strictly from the numbers, so what do you base your opinion upon?

 

[mdm2272]

Where I work we are allowed to leave them in our vehicle. We used to be allowed to bring firearms in as long as they were unloaded till some idiot ruined it for us by pointing it at someones head.

 

[dansgotguns]

So wait, the gun is out in the open? As I recall, OP said in the vehicle, and my example was similar, concealed. Of course, excluded location or not, if you go waving your piece around at folks, it's gonna end badly for you. My response to the underlined above:

However, let's assume for a minute that I DO NOT have a weapon in my vehicle...

Someone tattles to mgmt. (erroneously) that I carry a weapon in my car every day. I pull into work, get waved over by the gate guard, and told that I'm going to be searched. Now, I refuse. Maybe I've got some paperwork in my car because I'm interviewing with another company, maybe I just picked up the new issue of Sexy Midgets and Sheep, who knows. Either way, I'd really rather not have my car searched. The guard calls HR, let's the know what's going on. HR says to detain me. If I'm correct based on your posts and others above, and tell me if I'm not, Mr. Securitas can unholster his weapon, point it at me, and hold me until such time as 5-0 arrives, and I have ZERO recourse, and least in the immediate term. Again, I'm questioning the legality of this detention. Are the security guards sworn merit officers of a local, state, or federal agency? If not, are they entitled under some specific Indiana Code to detain at will? If your gonna bring "Citizen's Arrest", it has to be something witnessed by the individual, and needs to be 100% air tight, otherwise someone's arse is in a sling.

Stop. Look at my post again.

Are you stating that more than 1% of all security guards are "off duty cops"? Are you also stating that a non LEO private security guard, by definition, can't be qualified in the use of lethal and non lethal force?

1. There are approximately 2 million security guards within the U.S. Of course, this number includes LE officers already moonlighting as a guard.
2. There are approximately approximately 1.2 million full time and part time state and local LE officers within the U.S.

Pray tell, inform us what percentage of security guards within the U.S. are qualified to utilize deadly and non lethal force? My estimate is strictly from the numbers, so what do you base your opinion upon?

All of that^ doesn't matter, because at this particular place they are.

 

[turnandshoot4]

What an interesting thread.

So the general consensus is that if someone comes on my property I have all the power over them? I can tell them they must not wear pants or they must leave? Whilst on my property they have no personal rights, as they surrendered them when they entered (or signed a contract)?

 

[IndyBeerman]

Stop. Look at my post again.

I did, clearly you don't understand what I said.

Are you stating that more than 1% of all security guards are "off duty cops"?

Yes I'm stating that there is more than 1% of the security guard force that are LEO's.

Are you also stating that a non LEO private security guard, by definition, can't be qualified in the use of lethal and non lethal force?

No, you did'nt read what I said, I said that:

Clearly he does not realize that a lot of security are moonlighting LEO's, and people who take their job seriously enough to train for it, even though it may be a low paying job.

So that means there are Security personal out there that train for both lethal and non lethal force because their life just may depend on it.

1. There are approximately 2 million security guards within the U.S. Of course, this number includes LE officers already moonlighting as a guard.
2. There are approximately approximately 1.2 million full time and part time state and local LE officers within the U.S.

Do you really have a grasp on just how many LEO's work part time as security? I don't think you do.

Pray tell, inform us what percentage of security guards within the U.S. are qualified to utilize deadly and non lethal force? My estimate is strictly from the numbers, so what do you base your opinion upon?

Your estimate is nothing more than the amount of people working security and the amount of LEO's, you have no numbers other than that.

But I can tell you this, your 2 million number that you threw out there as security, you take 1% of that and it's a paltry 20,000, without a doubt there is more than 20,000 LEO's working security in this country. So yes, without a doubt there is more than 1% of the security personal that is trained in lethal and non lethal force.

So when I said "Don't classify everyone working security as a Paul Blart , it could very well be one of the worst decisions of your life."

I clearly meant that the guy you think is nothing more than a nobody sitting @ a gate watching people walk in and out, is a LEO that can and will make your day a living nightmare he he so chooses to do so because of your or someone else's ignorance.

 

[HotD]

I imagine that driving a beer truck and staying at the Holiday Inn Express makes you an expert upon the subject. However, myself being an individual who actually currently works in the field of Human Resources and a good part directed toward the field of Compensation Management, I would advise you to not don't take all your local Indiana knowledge and apply it to the rest of the $7.25/hour country.

I don't discount the fact that some cop who doesn't want to work very hard at a part time job, cannot find a job to sit on his posterior and be visible. I'm merely stating that there isn't anymore than 1% of the entire industry that is qualified to intervene to the extent that people claim there to be.

 

[dansgotguns]

I imagine that driving a beer truck and staying at the Holiday Inn Express makes you an expert upon the subject. However, myself being an individual who actually currently works in the field of Human Resources and a good part directed toward the field of Compensation Management, I would advise you to not don't take all your local Indiana knowledge and apply it to the rest of the $7.25/hour country.

I don't discount the fact that some cop who doesn't want to work very hard at a part time job, cannot find a job to sit on his posterior and be visible. I'm merely stating that there isn't anymore than 1% of the entire industry that is qualified to intervene to the extent that people claim there to be.

these particular security guards get paid $21/ hr for a reason. they arent your average mall cop.

 

[KLB]

What an interesting thread.

So the general consensus is that if someone comes on my property I have all the power over them? I can tell them they must not wear pants or they must leave? Whilst on my property they have no personal rights, as they surrendered them when they entered (or signed a contract)?

Actually, yes you could demand that. It gives you no power over their rights, as they have the right to refuse and leave any time they want.

They never had a right to be on your property to begin with.

 

[Andy219]

What an interesting thread.

So the general consensus is that if someone comes on my property I have all the power over them? I can tell them they must not wear pants or they must leave? Whilst on my property they have no personal rights, as they surrendered them when they entered (or signed a contract)?

I haven't allowed people to wear clothes on my property since 2008.


Maybe that why I don't get many visitors.

 

[repeter1977]

So wait, the gun is out in the open? As I recall, OP said in the vehicle, and my example was similar, concealed. Of course, excluded location or not, if you go waving your piece around at folks, it's gonna end badly for you. My response to the underlined above:

However, let's assume for a minute that I DO NOT have a weapon in my vehicle...

Someone tattles to mgmt. (erroneously) that I carry a weapon in my car every day. I pull into work, get waved over by the gate guard, and told that I'm going to be searched. Now, I refuse. Maybe I've got some paperwork in my car because I'm interviewing with another company, maybe I just picked up the new issue of Sexy Midgets and Sheep, who knows. Either way, I'd really rather not have my car searched. The guard calls HR, let's the know what's going on. HR says to detain me. If I'm correct based on your posts and others above, and tell me if I'm not, Mr. Securitas can unholster his weapon, point it at me, and hold me until such time as 5-0 arrives, and I have ZERO recourse, and least in the immediate term. Again, I'm questioning the legality of this detention. Are the security guards sworn merit officers of a local, state, or federal agency? If not, are they entitled under some specific Indiana Code to detain at will? If your gonna bring "Citizen's Arrest", it has to be something witnessed by the individual, and needs to be 100% air tight, otherwise someone's arse is in a sling.

The place in question is ran like a military base, in that they can do random vehicle searches, or if they have suspicion even of having booze in the vehicle that they can search it. If they see that you have a live round laying on the floor of your vehicle, thats enough to be fired from there. As I said, you can always try to fight it after the fact, and be the case that changes policy, but its already happened before. Even if hired back, you would lose all the overtime and incentive pay and anything else "extra" in your pay for that entire time.
As for the vehicle search, if you didn't want your vehicle possibly searched for any reason, well, Id suggest using another vehicle to get to work then, as this company has the right to search vehicles for Homeland Security. While I do not work there, I know more then a couple that do, which is why I am aware about this policy. I am still in the military, and I know that on base, you surrender certain rights to gain admittance to the base. On post, we have the right to search vehicles, houses, persons, etc. This is on the outside of every base that I have been to. We are not allowed to have personal weapons coming in and out of base, and if randomly inspected and have one, yea, bad things in your career will happen. This works for military and civilians on the base. There are a FEW exceptions (IE, going to hunt on the base, moving to and from a location, and very few others), but for the most part, you better not actually be armed on base. As from my understanding, this place security is run about like a military base, as they are both using the Federal Laws.

 

[IndyBeerman]

these particular security guards get paid $21/ hr for a reason. they aren't your average mall cop.

HEY HEY HEY, don't dispute him, he's in "Human Resources and a good part directed toward the field of Compensation Management".

 

[dansgotguns]

HEY HEY HEY, don't dispute him, he's in "Human Resources and a good part directed toward the field of Compensation Management".

Lmao if I could rep you again I would. My favorite part of this is when he asked me what my credentials were, I told him and he didn't have anything else to say about it.