June 2nd, IDPA, Red Brush Rifle Range

[Grelber]

I seen something very odd with the 2 XDM 5.25s we had in our squad. They dropped the magazines while shooting. Just fell out, more than once 2 different guns and 2 different shooters. I guess they have a mag release button on each side.

And guess what my backup gun is for ssp.

It sucks to be me.

Your 'learned a lesson or two' point is a great one though!

 

[looney2ns]

Sweet mother today was a long and rough one! Thank you to all that shot with us and then hung out until the bitter end!

Found out what was wrong with my M&P9....shot through a squib round...barrel bulged to the point of locking the entire gun up. Might be the best built gun out there since that happened and you couldn't tell it by looking at it. Going to see what Smith might do for me...wish me luck but here lately my luck hasn't been that good.

Pretty sure the cosmos is punishing me for shooting 9mm so I'm probably going to just stick with The Lord's Caliber, 45, like I should have all along!

Holy Batman son!

Sorry I bailed. Did you all finish before midnight?

 

[looney2ns]

I had wierdness as well in the house stage. A double feed. I found the rounds and they looked perfect. I guess I limp wristed it. My concentration yesterday was completely in the dumper.

 

[DustyDawg48]

It was one of the weirdest days for guns that I have ever seen. I won't count my M&P9 issue count as a malfunction from the gun but it was still crazy nonetheless!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Anyone get their scores back yet?

 

[redbaron]

Nope.

 

[DustyDawg48]

No, nothing yet. Did a quick tally there right at the end and I think I missed Expert by 10. The good news is switching t the M&P seems to agree with me since I picked up over 7 or 8 points over my previous score.

 

[looney2ns]

scowens is still probably in recoup mode. He had a busy day.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

scowens is still probably in recoup mode. He had a busy day.

No doubt! I was just nervous because this was the first time I didn't put my email address on my score sheet...

 

[parkerj112]

Nothing on the my score yet... Perhaps by the end of the day.


Parker

 

[Grelber]

Got nailed Saturday for trying to go back and make up a shot on the swinger at the pond, had engaged all targets in sequence and figured I'd go back and throw a couple more at the one I felt worst about.

Figured that since one day I might need to be the nailer instead of the nailee, I oughts to find what it says about make up shots in tactical sequence and tactical priority. Couldn't find anything concrete in the rule book so I went to the IDPA rules forum and a quick search got me to Picking up a shot in Tactical Sequence? in IDPA Rules Questions Forum. About 77 posts, some heated, seems like it depends on how you define 'engaged'. I think the crux of the argument is the same for TP or TS.

Do you folks know if they ever made a ruling or something that makes it clear beyond debate whether or not you can pick up a miss in TS or TP?

 

[sbcman]

The classifier takes 14 entries plus points down. Then, he'll have to decipher through 1/4 of the sheets that listed the classifier on the wrong score placements. Then divy out those who just ran the classifier, those who just ran the side courses and those who ran it all. Some of those scoresheets are real mess. I'm guessing there was somewhere around 60 shooters (15 average for 4 squads).

Finally, add in all the stuff that gets in the way of our hobby like work, eating, sleep, etc. It's gonna take a while

 

[Grelber]

The classifier takes 14 entries plus points down. Then, he'll have to decipher through 1/4 of the sheets that listed the classifier on the wrong score placements. Then divy out those who just ran the classifier, those who just ran the side courses and those who ran it all. Some of those scoresheets are real mess. I'm guessing there was somewhere around 60 shooters (15 average for 4 squads).

Finally, add in all the stuff that gets in the way of our hobby like work, eating, sleep, etc. It's gonna take a while

Hmm, I wonder if there is a reason why some of that work couldn't or shouldn't be shared?

 

[sbcman]

Got nailed Saturday for trying to go back and make up a shot on the swinger at the pond, had engaged all targets in sequence and figured I'd go back and throw a couple more at the one I felt worst about.

Figured that since one day I might need to be the nailer instead of the nailee, I oughts to find what it says about make up shots in tactical sequence and tactical priority. Couldn't find anything concrete in the rule book so I went to the IDPA rules forum and a quick search got me to Picking up a shot in Tactical Sequence? in IDPA Rules Questions Forum. About 77 posts, some heated, seems like it depends on how you define 'engaged'. I think the crux of the argument is the same for TP or TS.

Do you folks know if they ever made a ruling or something that makes it clear beyond debate whether or not you can pick up a miss in TS or TP?

Ah, yes, another "shoot as many as you like in vickers, but only the way we want you to" IDPA enigma. I know of no such official ruling given on the matter. But, the spirit of the rulebook seems to indicate that "engaging" a target means your first run of shots at it. In other words, feel free to dump four on before moving on. Coming back to it means "re-engaging" and that's where the problem lies. There is no clear cut answer for "re-engaging" just "engaging."

To a tactical sequence call, I think a guy would get busted, rightly, for re-engaging in that manner, even on a vickers course. There is a reason it is put in sequence.

The whole other side of this is that the very worst you can do on a target is 7.5 secs down. Repositioning, acquiring sight pic, running two off and so forth brings one to question whether its a worthwhile propisition. It can payoff, but you've got to shoot quick and sure.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

To answer Grelber's question this is why I called it that way:

We had to use cover and after he engaged the swinger he as well as I considered it "dead" and therefore he continued to slice the pie to the next target exposing himself to the suposedly dead swinger.

After he shot the other targets and the swinger stopped moving as much he proceded to aim and fire several more shots at it against my direction.

I nailed him with a Procedural for cover, not for re-engaging a target.

It could have been a FTDR for skipping a target while it was moving and engaging it later so it wasn't moving which a clear violation of the spirit of the stage description but I did not think it was done purposefully or maliciously.

 

[Grelber]

To answer Grelber's question this is why I called it that way:

We had to use cover and after he engaged the swinger he as well as I considered it "dead" and therefore he continued to slice the pie to the next target exposing himself to the suposedly dead swinger.

After he shot the other targets and the swinger stopped moving as much he proceded to aim and fire several more shots at it against my direction.

I nailed him with a Procedural for cover, not for re-engaging a target.

It could have been a FTDR for skipping a target while it was moving and engaging it later so it wasn't moving which a clear violation of the spirit of the stage description but I did not think it was done purposefully or maliciously.

No debate about the event, and as S.O. I found you to be knowledgable, polite, professional, most probably average weight for your height, and certainly underpaid.
Just trying to understand the rules better and get consistent with how other folks look at things.
Are we saying that you can never pick up a miss on TS or TP?

 

[sbcman]

To answer Grelber's question this is why I called it that way:

We had to use cover and after he engaged the swinger he as well as I considered it "dead" and therefore he continued to slice the pie to the next target exposing himself to the suposedly dead swinger.

After he shot the other targets and the swinger stopped moving as much he proceded to aim and fire several more shots at it against my direction.

I nailed him with a Procedural for cover, not for re-engaging a target.

It could have been a FTDR for skipping a target while it was moving and engaging it later so it wasn't moving which a clear violation of the spirit of the stage description but I did not think it was done purposefully or maliciously.

Just curious- Why did you give him "direction" to not shoot at that target again?

 

[sbcman]

No debate about the event, and as S.O. I found you to be knowledgable, polite, professional, most probably average weight for your height, and certainly underpaid.
Just trying to understand the rules better and get consistent with how other folks look at things.
Are we saying that you can never pick up a miss on TS or TP?

Wait??? Are we talking about Ben here or another SO? Ben's paid plenty

 

[Grelber]

Wait??? Are we talking about Ben here or another SO? Ben's paid plenty

Ben ??????

Dang, I thought it was Don again!

 

[Titanium_Frost]

No debate about the event, and as S.O. I found you to be knowledgable, polite, professional, most probably average weight for your height, and certainly underpaid.
Just trying to understand the rules better and get consistent with how other folks look at things.
Are we saying that you can never pick up a miss on TS or TP?

AFAIK as long as you don't blow cover or violate the course description (tac sequence/tac priority) you would be fine to re-engage.

Just curious- Why did you give him "direction" to not shoot at that target again?

I didn't want to give him a procedural.