Jose Guerena Affidavit Released

[NYFelon]

T.Lex, I'm sure you've seen far more search warrant affadavits than have I, but honestly, the material listed in that warrant doesn't seem just the smallest bit indiscriminate to you? I mean they were looking for things that more than likely all of us have in our homes.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I dont care if the guy was the biggest drug dealer in arizona. the police actions in shooting him and then leaving him to die were reckless and in my opinion should be prosecuted. the way they unprofessionaly served the warrant was wrong too and reckless. who in their right mind serves a warrent when a kid is in the house ? idiots! wait till the kid leaves. does anyone let their kid walk down the firing range while other people are shooting even if they are a few lanes over? its reckless! do a little more leg work, have a little more patience police!

 

[T.Lex]

One more time, I'm not justifying the manner of the entry. The PCA does give some context as to why they did several entries at the same time, though.

Also, I think another 10% or so of effort in the investigation of Jose specifically would've probably changed the outcome. But, that is absolutely 100% Monday-morning-quarterbacking.

 

[T.Lex]

T.Lex, I'm sure you've seen far more search warrant affadavits than have I, but honestly, the material listed in that warrant doesn't seem just the smallest bit indiscriminate to you? I mean they were looking for things that more than likely all of us have in our homes.

Well, yeah. It is all stuff that drug dealers have in their homes, too. Except they also usually have some narcotics....

To me, the important part isn't as much what they were looking for as why they were looking.

The probable cause is a product of the investigation. The investigation they did was pretty thorough. They had several addresses that could be directly linked to the main BG - Jose's brother. They were going to search those addresses.

It is interesting to me that it does not appear that Jose's brother put up a fight at all. He knew he was caught, and didn't fight it. Jose, who I still believe wasn't guilty, he got f'ck'd.

 

[hornadylnl]

I have more property than reasonable for my income. Should I be waiting for Blart to fast rope into my house?

 

[T.Lex]

How many drug dealers do you hang out with?

 

[hornadylnl]

How many drug dealers do you hang out with?

None, that I'm aware of. Do you pretend to know what everyone you associate with is involved in 24/7?

 

[T.Lex]

You may want to find out.

And, yes. My life is pretty boring, so I don't worry about it much. But, the people I hang out with tend to be people I know well enough to know they aren't drug dealers.

ETA:
I think he knew what his brother was up to, at least vaguely. And, that doesn't change my assessment one bit. I can EASILY see someone saying, "Look, you're my brother, I love you, you're screwing up your life. Keep that shtuff away from me."

Then, when the noise and door-banging started, his first thought was, "That F'n Alejandro. I'm going to kick his ass for getting me into this." Gets his EBR. As the door opens, he wakes up enough and can confim it is PD, safeties his rifle, starts standing up and says something to the effect of, "Hey guys, you probably want this." Then the shooting starts, and he's not doing any of it.

PURE speculation on my part, but... that's the scenario that keeps playing out in my head.

 

[malern28us]

You may want to find out.

And, yes. My life is pretty boring, so I don't worry about it much. But, the people I hang out with tend to be people I know well enough to know they aren't drug dealers.

ETA:
I think he knew what his brother was up to, at least vaguely. And, that doesn't change my assessment one bit. I can EASILY see someone saying, "Look, you're my brother, I love you, you're screwing up your life. Keep that shtuff away from me."

Then, when the noise and door-banging started, his first thought was, "That F'n Alejandro. I'm going to kick his ass for getting me into this." Gets his EBR. As the door opens, he wakes up enough and can confim it is PD, safeties his rifle, starts standing up and says something to the effect of, "Hey guys, you probably want this." Then the shooting starts, and he's not doing any of it.

PURE speculation on my part, but... that's the scenario that keeps playing out in my head.

I hope this was meant to be in purple. Otherwise there are a lot of judges, cops, and senators that could be getting their family members killed in a SWAT raid.

 

[T.Lex]

No purple.

Everyone should be careful with the company they keep. (If a few more of those types of people were subject to search warrants, something may change.)

This does, also, bring a certain context to the Ind. Sup. Ct. ruling recently.

 

[E5RANGER375]

You may want to find out.

And, yes. My life is pretty boring, so I don't worry about it much. But, the people I hang out with tend to be people I know well enough to know they aren't drug dealers.

ETA:
I think he knew what his brother was up to, at least vaguely. And, that doesn't change my assessment one bit. I can EASILY see someone saying, "Look, you're my brother, I love you, you're screwing up your life. Keep that shtuff away from me."

Then, when the noise and door-banging started, his first thought was, "That F'n Alejandro. I'm going to kick his ass for getting me into this." Gets his EBR. As the door opens, he wakes up enough and can confim it is PD, safeties his rifle, starts standing up and says something to the effect of, "Hey guys, you probably want this." Then the shooting starts, and he's not doing any of it.

PURE speculation on my part, but... that's the scenario that keeps playing out in my head.

would you have hung out with lance armstrong afew years ago if given the chance? or barry bonds, or congressman weiner, or martha stewart, or berney madoff or officer bissard? all criminals, or people engaged in illegal things, but their friends were shocked ..... lol. if your friends are doing something illegal they arent gonna tell you. just because you know someone who does something illegal shouldnt damn you too if your not involved in the illegal activity. thats where police legwork is supposed to be involved. but in todays world many times the police just make a call and the judge signs off on anything.

 

[bobzilla]

So, what I gather is: you must dive into everyone you know or associate with's life to know everything they do or you should expect to have your door kicked in and shot. Got it. Doesn't matter if they're family, an aquaintence you bump into at the hardware store, your mom's friend....whatever. Got it.

 

[PatriotPride]

I'm not surprised. Another classic screwup.

 

[T.Lex]

haha

I don't think Weiner has done anything illegal... yet. (Technically, neither has Bissard.)

No on Armstrong (I've heard from people who have that he's kinda a d-bag). Same for Bonds. Now, Stewart... there's a woman with a hot cherry pie.... Madoff, maybe.

 

[T.Lex]

So, what I gather is: you must dive into everyone you know or associate with's life to know everything they do or you should expect to have your door kicked in and shot. Got it. Doesn't matter if they're family, an aquaintence you bump into at the hardware store, your mom's friend....whatever. Got it.

That is up to you how far you want to carry it.

The getting shot part is more up to you than it is up to them.

 

[E5RANGER375]

haha

I don't think Weiner has done anything illegal... yet. (Technically, neither has Bissard.)

No on Armstrong (I've heard from people who have that he's kinda a d-bag). Same for Bonds. Now, Stewart... there's a woman with a hot cherry pie.... Madoff, maybe.

actualy i believe he used his congressional office and computer to send some of the pics, so I believe thats illegal.

bissard****** yeah, "technically" since he hasnt been convicted, but you get my point.

 

[bobzilla]

That is up to you how far you want to carry it.

The getting shot part is more up to you than it is up to them.

REally? Are you serious? Wow... some people really don't havea ****ing clue.

First you tell us that it is all our responsibility to dive into anyone we know to know their deepest secrets or we should expect to have our doors burst down at any moment.....and that is fine. Then you tell us that it's "up to you how far yu want to carry it".... well according to you that is our ONLY option. If you only give us one option, what are we supposed to do?

when someone busts down your door, when you know you've done nothing illegal, your sister was killed by a home invasion, you have just gotten to sleep after a 12 hour shift working nights and your wife and children are waking you up in your dark house terrified becaus there are men with guns in your house..... what do you do?

Answer that TRUTHFULLY and we can continue this conversation. Otherwise, we're done.

 

[T.Lex]

haha

You're the internets police now? Since it doesn't look like you understand what I write anyway, you might just want to skip to, "We're done."

1) I didn't tell you your responsibility one bit.
2) I didn't tell you what your options are.
3) Neither of us has a crystal ball to say what we would or would not do in that situation. Just ask the guy who had Johnny-Meth-Addict by the short ones.

I go back to an observation I made in another thread about this.

It. Is. A. Tragedy.

It is a tragedy on many levels.

IMHO, one level of the tragedy is that the police appear justified in serving a search warrant on that house. Maybe not in the way they did, but that is a different issue.

And look, we should all take stock of the way we conduct our lives. This is a sad, sad reminder of that.

 

[lashicoN]

No purple.

Everyone should be careful with the company they keep. (If a few more of those types of people were subject to search warrants, something may change.)

This does, also, bring a certain context to the Ind. Sup. Ct. ruling recently.

I agree. People should be careful these days hanging out with murderers who shoot and kill Americans for owning rifles. If a few more of these types of murders happen, something may change. As history has shown us over and over again...if justice doesn't rain soon enough, blood will.

 

[88GT]

Well, yeah. It is all stuff that drug dealers have in their homes, too. Except they also usually have some narcotics....

To me, the important part isn't as much what they were looking for as why they were looking.

The probable cause is a product of the investigation. The investigation they did was pretty thorough. They had several addresses that could be directly linked to the main BG - Jose's brother. They were going to search those addresses.

It is interesting to me that it does not appear that Jose's brother put up a fight at all. He knew he was caught, and didn't fight it. Jose, who I still believe wasn't guilty, he got f'ck'd.

Presumably, those are the four homes searched as part of this "investigation." But I want to see the warrants because the lawyer for the SWAT members responsible for killing Guerena has said that neither Guerena's name nor the address of the home in which he lived was mentioned in the warrant. So regardless of the righteousness of the PCA/evidence for the warrant, the warrant itself still remains highly suspect in terms of legality. (And I'll add that even if it was legally justifiable, the execution of that warrant was done without regard to the occupants in the home and by their own admission, those SWAT members put the lives of all who were inside at risk for nothing more than their own incompetence/laziness. It's "lucky" only Guerena was murdered and not his wife and kid too.)

You may want to find out.

And, yes. My life is pretty boring, so I don't worry about it much. But, the people I hang out with tend to be people I know well enough to know they aren't drug dealers.

ETA:
I think he knew what his brother was up to, at least vaguely. And, that doesn't change my assessment one bit. I can EASILY see someone saying, "Look, you're my brother, I love you, you're screwing up your life. Keep that shtuff away from me."

Then, when the noise and door-banging started, his first thought was, "That F'n Alejandro. I'm going to kick his ass for getting me into this." Gets his EBR. As the door opens, he wakes up enough and can confim it is PD, safeties his rifle, starts standing up and says something to the effect of, "Hey guys, you probably want this." Then the shooting starts, and he's not doing any of it.

PURE speculation on my part, but... that's the scenario that keeps playing out in my head.

No problem. That seems to be the reasonable standard for some. But at least you wait for concrete evidence and admit it up front.