Jackbooted Thugs!!

[You'll shoot your eye out]

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was truly curious as to how he would handle the situations and what actions he would take. There are numerous ways to handle every situation and learning is the whole reason I'm here. Frankly, I'm not sure how I would handle either the actual situation as it occurred, or my hypothetical situation that I posed to Burnsy.

I seem to be the troublemaker. Lots of my posts get scrappy, I am not really sure why. I refrain from posting threads or commenting on others threads because It get's so contentious around here. One guy thinks I was Irresponsible and shouldn't have a gun. Maybe his dogs are meaner than mine. My dogs are large and play rough, but they are not deadly force. perhaps he is afraid of dogs, It's very common.

Most people enjoyed my picnic. I didn't want it to become one of THOSE threads where everybody runs away (too late). I am not sure where it ran off the rails, but it's off the rails and I can't have a gun anymore..... so let's not scrap about it.

 

[10-32]

I assume you mean military training, if that is true thank you for serving, but that does not apply in civilian self defense cases. If you kill someone because they gave you crap, you are going to have issues.

NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KILLING, just maybe a GOOD butt whippin' that would hopefully straiten out the punks if they pushed the situation that far.

No it wasn't military training, it was a Police Academy in Ohio. Nine months long, mostly taught by current military or former military working as Police officers now for the hand to hand a firearms portion of the Academy (Jan - Jun). Aug - Dec was State and Constitutional law.

 

[10-32]

It's all about what a reasonable and prudent man would do in the same situation, would a reasonable and prudent man unleash dogs on people with the intent of causing harm to them as a result of a chicken wing thrown on the floor? If I was one of the 12, I would vote no.

You keep forgetting the intimidation part in which the punks stated "You should leave....NOW!!!" along with the fact he sat down at the table with the intention of provoking a fight. Yes in Indiana there is a law against that.

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.32.

 

[Burnsy]

NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT KILLING, just maybe a GOOD butt whippin' that would hopefully straiten out the punks if they pushed the situation that far.

In the state of IN if you start a fist fight, you are risking your LTCH not to mention your life if you carrying.

 

[Burnsy]

You keep forgetting the intimidation part in which the punks stated "You should leave....NOW!!!" along with the fact he sat down at the table with the intention of provoking a fight. Yes in Indiana there is a law against that.

IC 35-42-2-3
Provocation
Sec. 3. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally engages in conduct that is likely to provoke a reasonable man to commit battery commits provocation, a Class C infraction.
As added by Acts 1976, P.L.148, SEC.2. Amended by Acts 1977, P.L.340, SEC.32.

Valid point, i guess that is where reasonable man becomes important, If I were on if the jury, I would again vote that food on the floor would result in a no from me. There was no danger to the OP that would denote possibly dangerous animals being unleashed

 

[10-32]

In the state of IN if you start a fist fight, you are risking your LTCH not to mention your life.

Battery is a Class A misdemeanor which is 180 - 365 days in jail if I remember right. To have your LTCH revoked under the IC you would need to be convicted for a crime that carries more than 365 days in jail. ( I know there are other ways to lose your LTCH but none that apply to this situation.

In a 3 on 1 fight as the OP described, I'll take my chances in court.

**Edit - I'd still let one of the punks swing first.

 

[Burnsy]

"I know there are other ways to lose your LTCH but none that apply to this situation. "

What is the definition of a “proper person” to be licensed?
35-47-1-7 Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:

(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable
belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;

I would consider someone who was carrying a gun that started a fight while doing so to be violent or emotionally unstable.

Also, in a 3 on 1 fight, I would look to exit the fight and go home. I would rather go home and be laughed at on a forum than risk my life or freedom in court.

 

[10-32]

What is the definition of a “proper person” to be licensed?
35-47-1-7 Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:

(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable
belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;

I would consider someone who was carrying a gun that started a fight while doing so to be violent or emotionally unstable.

#6 doesn't apply to me either. I've never gone out looking for to fight or planned on being in one.

In Indiana "You do not have the duty to retreat" and that's in the IC also.

I never said I'd start the fight, I just won't back down from a few punks.

 

[thompal]

Valid point, i guess that is where reasonable man becomes important, If I were on if the jury, I would again vote that food on the floor would result in a no from me. There was no danger to the OP that would denote possibly dangerous animals being unleashed

In other words, if you were on the jury, your vote would be that the punk is not guilty of provocation?

Interesting.

In other words, anyone who gets provoked by actions such as those of the punk is therefore an UNreasonable man?

 

[BDBHoover]

Skip to 7:29

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbIlLmCID5g

10:03 << My favorite movie threat of all time

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

"I know there are other ways to lose your LTCH but none that apply to this situation. "

What is the definition of a “proper person” to be licensed?
35-47-1-7 Sec. 7. "Proper person" means a person who:

(6) does not have documented evidence which would give rise to a reasonable
belief that the person has a propensity for violent or emotionally unstable conduct;

I would consider someone who was carrying a gun that started a fight while doing so to be violent or emotionally unstable.

Also, in a 3 on 1 fight, I would look to exit the fight and go home. I would rather go home and be laughed at on a forum than risk my freedom in court.

Damn Burnsy, I hope you aren't still talking about me! Started a fight while carrying a gun? Now I started a fight? You better take a pill and then go back and read the post. I never employed deadly force and I never started a fight. What I did was defuse a situation before someone got hurt
I am a 53 year old legally crippled man. I am supposed to use a walker just to stand. I am sitting with my wife and dogs deep in a state forest when three punks appear on foot looking for trouble. I can't run away, I can't even WALK away without mechanical help...... I was so irresponsible that I used my dogs before I HAD to use a weapon. I didn't endanger those punks with my dogs, I SAVED THEIR LIVES with my dogs! There was more danger in waiting to see how THEY would continue than there was in terminating the encounter.
Heck, if you make three more posts the kids will be dead..... stop embarrassing yourself and take a Valium. Stop inventing facts for an encounter that you didn't have.

 

[Benny]

How, what happens when your dogs don't respond to your command and kill the person who threw your chicken on the floor?

Train your dogs better?

My GSD has gotten out of the yard and ran off for a bit before, but as far as he knows, my arms are 300 feet long and can yank him up by his neck if he doesn't immediately stop chasing after a rabbit (or a JBT) when I tell him.

As for the OP, I probably wouldn't have "released the hounds," but the second that piece of **** reached for my property, he would have received as many broken fingers as I got a hold of. At 15 or 16, I was well over 6' tall and approaching 200 lbs, so maybe my view is skewed on this situation...They could have been tiny.

I'm not that old and you are talking like you might be getting up there in age, so I might have stood up and put my hand on my side-arm once they started making threats instead of letting my dogs loose (1. If you felt threatened 2. No brandishing law in IN, so no legal suit). That would have relayed a just as much of a message, but you wouldn't have had to worry about your dogs biting one of those turds and them suing you for it.

 

[Burnsy]

Damn Burnsy, I hope you aren't still talking about me! Started a fight while carrying a gun? Now I started a fight? You better take a pill and then go back and read the post. I never employed deadly force and I never started a fight. What I did was defuse a situation before someone got hurt
I am a 53 year old legally crippled man. I am supposed to use a walker just to stand. I am sitting with my wife and dogs deep in a state forest when three punks appear on foot looking for trouble. I can't run away, I can't even WALK away without mechanical help...... I was so irresponsible that I used my dogs before I HAD to use a weapon. I didn't endanger those punks with my dogs, I SAVED THEIR LIVES with my dogs! There was more danger in waiting to see how THEY would continue than there was in terminating the encounter.
Heck, if you make three more posts the kids will be dead..... stop embarrassing yourself and take a Valium. Stop inventing facts for an encounter that you didn't have.

You released dogs with the intention of them attacking the punks. How is that not starting a fight. Did you intend your dogs to sing them songs?

"I SAVED THEIR LIVES with my dogs!"

Your delusional....

 

[Burnsy]

In other words, if you were on the jury, your vote would be that the punk is not guilty of provocation?

Interesting.

In other words, anyone who gets provoked by actions such as those of the punk is therefore an UNreasonable man?

If you are saying that I feel that throwing food on the floor and saying words does not denote sending dogs after people with the intent of them causing physical harm then yes.

 

[Benny]

You released dogs with the intention of them attacking the punks. How is that not starting a fight. Did you intend your dogs to sing them songs?

"I SAVED THEIR LIVES with my dogs!"

Your delusional....

We must have different definitions of "starting" a fight. It certainly seems to me that knocking food off of a plate and saying "get out" would be "starting" the fight.

If you are saying that I feel that throwing food on the floor and saying words does not denote sending dogs after people with the intent of them causing physical harm then yes.

1. Throwing HIS food on the floor.

2. Saying THREATENING words.

 

[BDBHoover]

No duty to retreat in Indiana.... Tell me I better leave.... NOW.....

 

[Burnsy]

Train your dogs better?

My GSD has gotten out of the yard and ran off for a bit before, but as far as he knows, my arms are 300 feet long and can yank him up by his neck if he doesn't immediately stop chasing after a rabbit (or a JBT) when I tell him.

As for the OP, I probably wouldn't have "released the hounds," but the second that piece of **** reached for my property, he would have received as many broken fingers as I got a hold of. At 15 or 16, I was well over 6' tall and approaching 200 lbs, so maybe my view is skewed on this situation...They could have been tiny.

I'm not that old and you are talking like you might be getting up there in age, so I might have stood up and put my hand on my side-arm once they started making threats instead of letting my dogs loose (1. If you felt threatened 2. No brandishing law in IN, so no legal suit). That would have relayed a just as much of a message, but you wouldn't have had to worry about your dogs biting one of those turds and them suing you for it.

I have no direct control of your dog once you set it free. Training or not, no matter what it does, you pay the price. My dog is well trained too, but I would not stake my freedom on what it does, I have no idea no matter what I would like to think once it's on it's own.

Your size nor your weight has no matter.

Were they acting dumb? Yes. Should you break their fingers? If you want to pay the bill? Have at it. The OP was in danger of death or....you know the rest.

 

[jsharmon7]

This is why some species eat their young.

 

[Burnsy]

No duty to retreat in Indiana.... Tell me I better leave.... NOW.....

You are the OP, you in are a public place. Punks threw food on the ground but did not attack you. Does include sicking dogs on them?

 

[BDBHoover]

I believe that he stated that he let them loose... Did not say that he was "sicking his dogs" on them... I believe he also stated that he is 53 and legally handicapped and cannot run/walk away without some kind of assistance from a walker.... Do I think that he handled it to the best of his ability from what was stated? Yes... As for your statements regarding if you were a juror... If these are truly your beliefs regarding "HIS SIDE" of what happened then I really hope that the state of Indiana has better taste in jury selection...