Jackbooted Thugs!!

[Captain Morgan]

I would have removed myself from the situation, a piece of chicken is not worth a lawsuit which you would have lost. If your intention is protect yourself from violence, loosing dogs is in no way a means to achieve that.

So you would be perfectly fine letting some punks just walk in and run you out of a shelter, for absolutely no reason what so ever? I'm not advocating pulling a gun on them right then and there, but I'm also not advocating simply letting them get away with crap like that. Frankly, I'm not sure how I'd react to the situation, but I'm curious as to why you would just get up and walk away. If you let bullies get away with crap, they'll continue to bully people.

 

[Burnsy]

Um..... Bernsy.... Can I point out that I never considered let alone USED deadly force? Yes I put my dogs on them..... Guilty.... No Remorse either. Where did we get deadly force from?

YOU said that one of THEM could of used deadly force or had a weapon. Shots fired = game on. Shoot a member of my household and win stupid prizes. But hey, NOBODY pulled a gun. What deadly force are we talking about?

I asked already, What would YOU do? (OK, I.see your advise now.... Dismissed.)

What was your intention in releasing your dogs on the punks to bite them in the ankle? Once you unleash your dogs with the intention of attacking (there was no other possible intent that I can think of) you have no control over what they do.

If one of them would have jumped on the punks and gotten a hold of their throat, started shaking, crushed their trachea or bled them out, they constitute the use of deadly force.

What do you think the jury would find you? You released your dogs with the intent of stopping an attach that did not exist.

I am not trying to attack you, I am asking you to rethink your reaction to this event. Your right to carry was not intended to make anyone your "beaoch", it is meant to allow you to protect yourself in the very rare event that you are in danger of death or great bodily harm. How is the releasing of dogs against people any different unless clearly justified? Your use of your dogs had no other possible intent than deadly force as you had no control of the outcome, yet you were in danger of neither death or great bodily harm.

 

[bwframe]

Did you report this to the local officials so they might be on the lookout for these thugs in the future?

 

[Burnsy]

Once the punks were a "safe" distance away I would of called the dogs back. I probably would of then called the Police just to have a report on file.

How, what happens when your dogs don't respond to your command and kill the person who threw your chicken on the floor?

 

[Burnsy]

So you would be perfectly fine letting some punks just walk in and run you out of a shelter, for absolutely no reason what so ever? I'm not advocating pulling a gun on them right then and there, but I'm also not advocating simply letting them get away with crap like that. Frankly, I'm not sure how I'd react to the situation, but I'm curious as to why you would just get up and walk away. If you let bullies get away with crap, they'll continue to bully people.

I am not interested in confrontation. I am interested in protecting myself and the ones I care about. I would walk away. I am not a vigilante, I am not a bad ass trying to put them in their place or teach them a lesson, that might result in a three on one fist fight. Since I am not a pro boxer a fist fight may result in me getting blind sided. This doesn't mean that I would not fight if I had to, but as I have a gun on me, I am not looking to start one.

Me on the ground might result in a failure by me to retain my gun which might then result in my death. My ego is not worth my life. My intention is to remain alive, the best way to do that is to avoid getting into fist fights with three people.

 

[10-32]

How, what happens when your dogs don't respond to your command and kill the person who threw your chicken on the floor?

My dogs are trained well enough that they do come back when called.

 

[Burnsy]

My dogs are trained well enough that they do come back when called.

I am not willing to risk my freedom on something that I cannot guarantee. Its worth more than that, if you are then you value you life less than I value mine. I am fine with that.

 

[10-32]

I am not a bad ass trying to put them in there place or teach them a lesson, that might result in a three on one fist fight.

For the record, I don't claim to be a Bad Ass either but there is noway in hell I'm going to let a few punk kids run me off from a place I'm legally allowed to be.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I am not interested in confrontation. I am interested in protecting myself and the ones I care about. I would walk away. I am not a vigilante, I am not a bad ass trying to put them in their place or teach them a lesson, that might result in a three on one fist fight. Since I am not a pro boxer a fist fight may result in me getting blind sided. This doesn't mean that I would not fight if I had to, but as I have a gun on me, I am not looking to start one.

Me on the ground might result in a failure by me to retain my gun which might then result in my death. My ego is not worth my life. My intention is to remain alive, the best way to do that is to avoid getting into fist fights with three people.

Ok. So you get up and walk away and go to another shelter. They decide they weren't interested in the first shelter and they follow you to the new one and do the same thing. You walk away from this one and simply decide to go to your vehicle. They stand in front of the doors of your vehicle so that you can't get to it. They never lay a hand on you, they just stand in front of the doors. You decide to use your cell phone to call the police. One of them knocks the phone from your hands and picks it up, while his friends continue to block your vehicle and tell you they aren't going to let you leave. They say they don't want your car or your money, but instead they just stand there and call you an idiot and a pansy. Now what?

 

[Burnsy]

For the record, I don't claim to be a Bad Ass either but there is noway in hell I'm going to let a few punk kids run me off from a place I'm legally allowed to be.

Then I implore you, how would you deal with the situation while being the bigger person yet not risk confrontation? They have already displayed aggression yet childish. What good can come from it?

 

[Burnsy]

Ok. So you get up and walk away and go to another shelter. They decide they weren't interested in the first shelter and they follow you to the new one and do the same thing. You walk away from this one and simply decide to go to your vehicle. They stand in front of the doors of your vehicle so that you can't get to it. They never lay a hand on you, they just stand in front of the doors. You decide to use your cell phone to call the police. One of them knocks the phone from your hands and picks it up, while his friends continue to block your vehicle and tell you they aren't going to let you leave. They say they don't want your car or your money, but instead they just stand there and call you an idiot and a pansy. Now what?

I would attempt to enter my truck, if this resulted in confrontation I would use whatever force was necessary to achieve that and would be justified in doing so.

Attacking me justify's an equal level of force on the force continuum. I would drive to a police station and report the incident. My cell phone has accident and loss coverage. It is not worth my life.

 

[You'll shoot your eye out]

OK everybody Lets stop pissing. Burnsey has a right to his opinion even if it is ridiculous. Don't get into a dogpile (see the dog refrence!). Just let it drop, Now I am sorry I started a fight.

 

[Captain Morgan]

OK everybody Lets stop pissing. Burnsey has a right to his opinion even if it is ridiculous. Don't get into a dogpile (see the dog refrence!). Just let it drop, Now I am sorry I started a fight.

I wasn't trying to start a fight. I was truly curious as to how he would handle the situations and what actions he would take. There are numerous ways to handle every situation and learning is the whole reason I'm here. Frankly, I'm not sure how I would handle either the actual situation as it occurred, or my hypothetical situation that I posed to Burnsy.

 

[10-32]

Then I implore you, how would you deal with the situation while being the bigger person yet not risk confrontation? They have already displayed aggression yet childish. What good can come from it?

First thing I would do is save the rest of my food and set it on the bench beside me. Next I would set there for a minute, hold the punk's gaze. My next move would depend on his actions. I'd probably grab another piece of chicks and just stare him in the eye while I ate it and wait for him to do something.

I know this is going to turn into a big "what if" scenario which could end 100 different ways but in the end I wouldn't walk off until I was ready to.

When you have months upon months of "YOU'RE IN CHARGE", "YOU DON'T TAKE CRAP FROM NO ONE", and "YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET HOME SAFE" beat into your head, you tend to look and handle thing differently than most others.

 

[.45 Dave]

You don't say how old you are. I'm thinking that had it escalated to violence (a quick punch in the face to the sex-pistol wannabe across from you, for example) you might not have had any worry legally speaking. They initiated the incident and 3 15-16 year olds could be considered dangerous if you are legally a senior citizen (that is over 55). 3 to 1 odds and considering their youth and your age.
I don't know the legalities and I'm not advocating hitting kids, or throwing the first punch, but their actions crossed the line. You handled it a lot cooler than I probably would have and I'm not really quick tempered--just fed up with punks. I'm not so sure about loosing the dogs though. That might have actually put you in more legal danger than a physical attack. I'm just thinking out loud here though, so take it for what you will.

 

[Burnsy]

This could go on and on and on. What if the three of them stood on their heads and sang songs while making fun of your mother????? The point is, sicking dogs on people that throw food on the floor is stupid, you were in no danger.

If your doing these things, grow up or leave it at home. You right to carry a gun is given to you to protect your life, not to make anyone your "beoch"..... Unleashing dogs because someone touched your food and making statements like that is a an indicator of instability and should result in the removal of your right in my opinion.

 

[10-32]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to pick a fight either. It just shows you how people handle things so differently.

I do have to say one thing about the Use of Force Continuum, you don't go equal, you take the next step up, or at least that's how I was trained.

 

[Burnsy]

You don't say how old you are. I'm thinking that had it escalated to violence (a quick punch in the face to the sex-pistol wannabe across from you, for example) you might not have had any worry legally speaking. They initiated the incident and 3 15-16 year olds could be considered dangerous if you are legally a senior citizen (that is over 55). 3 to 1 odds and considering their youth and your age.
I don't know the legalities and I'm not advocating hitting kids, or throwing the first punch, but their actions crossed the line. You handled it a lot cooler than I probably would have and I'm not really quick tempered--just fed up with punks. I'm not so sure about loosing the dogs though. That might have actually put you in more legal danger than a physical attack. I'm just thinking out loud here though, so take it for what you will.

That is my point, yes they were punks, yes there were acting like idiots, but they didn't actually do anything to him. Had one of the dogs actually bit one of them the OP would be paying hospital bills.

On the same token had they actually attacked him, he would have been justified in doing whatever was needed to remain safe. They didn't. His whole statement about him making them his "exploitative" if they had really gets to me.

 

[Burnsy]

First thing I would do is save the rest of my food and set it on the bench beside me. Next I would set there for a minute, hold the punk's gaze. My next move would depend on his actions. I'd probably grab another piece of chicks and just stare him in the eye while I ate it and wait for him to do something.

I know this is going to turn into a big "what if" scenario which could end 100 different ways but in the end I wouldn't walk off until I was ready to.

When you have months upon months of "YOU'RE IN CHARGE", "YOU DON'T TAKE CRAP FROM NO ONE", and "YOU DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO TO GET HOME SAFE" beat into your head, you tend to look and handle thing differently than most others.

I assume you mean military training, if that is true thank you for serving, but that does not apply in civilian self defense cases. If you kill someone because they gave you crap (threw your food), you are going to prison.

 

[Burnsy]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to pick a fight either. It just shows you how people handle things so differently.

I do have to say one thing about the Use of Force Continuum, you don't go equal, you take the next step up, or at least that's how I was trained.

It's all about what a reasonable and prudent man would do in the same situation, would a reasonable and prudent man unleash dogs on people with the intent of causing harm to them as a result of a chicken wing thrown on the floor? If I was one of the 12, I would vote no.