IUPUI Campus Police stoped me.

[Eddie]

Open carry on a college campus isn't the brightest idea. I still don't understand this fascination with open carrying that some folks have. Is it a power/attention thing? Great you carry a gun, the bad guys won't show there's until it's time to shoot, why do you feel the need to?

Lots of reasons.

Its not illegal. No reason to call it a power/attention thing. Why try to make folks feel ashamed for exercising their constitutional rights.

Open carry can be a political statement; carrying to show support of second amendment rights.

Open carry can help deter crime, bad guys are often cowards who prey on the weak. A person with a handgun is never weak.

Some folks see open carry as a tactical advantage, if the S hits the F then they can bring an openly carried weapon into battery faster than a concealed one.

Bottom line is: It is legal to open carry. Folks can do it if they like. Others need to get over whatever hangups they have with people open carrying.

 

[Que]

What doesn't help is for you to advocate the illegal detention of citizens breaking no law merely because they choose to exercise Constitutionally protected rights. It doesn't help that you apparently share their feelings that carrying a gun somehow casts us as being suspicious, that people have the right to treat us as criminals for no other reason than that we choose to be armed.

I haven't negged you either... but you deserve it.

Joe, it wasn't you that gave me neg rep, but that's certainly within your rights as a member of the forum.

I invite you to OC on campus anytime you feel, but why encourage a 19 year old to do something that is against what you know to be an established and enforceable rule?

Many "constitutionally protected rights" have limitations. This is unfortunate, but it's up to those who disagree to encourage change, in the right way. I just believe this is not that way. Help us to get the rule changed. How often are you on campus?

 

[Que]

Public universities are really nothing more than the first public-private partnerships. IU's state funding only accounts for 1/4-1/3rd of their total budget per year. So 2/3rds-3/4ths of the land, buildings, etc. is private. If the state can ban guns on their 100% taxpayer funded properties, then no court is going to say a private entity that gets government money can't. Now the legislature could, and some in others states have: Don't allow guns on the property=cut or no taxpayer funding.

The thing is, Lucas Oil stadium is more public than any of the state funded universities, but even they could ban handguns if they wanted too (I don't know if they do or not, they may already have a rule in place).

You cannot carry a gun into Lucas Oil, but some would simply say they don't support the team anyway. However, these same people who have no children at IUPUI, nor do they attend classes there, but they will project their belief that the rule should be changed in a way that is detrimental to those of us who are there 5-7 days a week.

I'M NOT FOR BANNING GUNS ANYWHERE. ON THE OTHER HAND, I WOULD NOT TELL A PERSON IN CHICAGO TO "SCREW WHAT THE MAYOR IS TOUTING AND EMBRACE YOUR RIGHTS," WHILE I SIT IN INDIANA WITH A LTCH.

 

[eldirector]

Open carry on a college campus isn't the brightest idea. I still don't understand this fascination with open carrying that some folks have. Is it a power/attention thing? Great you carry a gun, the bad guys won't show there's until it's time to shoot, why do you feel the need to?

There are multiple OC/CC thread that debate this. This thread is not one of them.

Back on topic:
IUPUI's "rule" is an un-posted rule. If you are a guest there, you likely aren't aware of it. As it is a "rule", the most they can do to a guest is ask them to leave. Advocating for more (detention, search, seizure, etc..) is advocating for a change in the law or an illegal act.

Another thread in this forum reports on a recent court ruling about ID/license requests in the absence of suspicion. The ruling came down on the side of the free citizen: you cannot be stopped and detained without reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed.

Yeah, it is my , but I think the weight of the law is behind me.

 

[Que]

There are multiple OC/CC thread that debate this. This thread is not one of them.

Back on topic:
IUPUI's "rule" is an un-posted rule. If you are a guest there, you likely aren't aware of it. As it is a "rule", the most they can do to a guest is ask them to leave. Advocating for more (detention, search, seizure, etc..) is advocating for a change in the law or an illegal act.

Another thread in this forum reports on a recent court ruling about ID/license requests in the absence of suspicion. The ruling came down on the side of the free citizen: you cannot be stopped and detained without reasonable suspicion of a crime being committed.

Yeah, it is my , but I think the weight of the law is behind me.

Agreed, but the OP was aware of the "rule". I do not want to advocate for more than in necessary and that's a check. I do see how my thought process can be a bit off target, though.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[cosermann]

Isn't it ok under the policy for faculty to arm themselves, just not lowly staff and students?

As you've all figured out, it's a violation of university policy to carry on an IU campus for faculty, staff, and students.

Here's a bit of history: It wasn't always so. The policy was changed in the mid 1990's when Myles Brand (spit) was IU President. He also forced the gun club where all the local LEOs trained at the time (and which had been around for almost 100 yrs) off the BL campus (it's now in Freedom, IN as the Sycamore Valley Gun Club). The shooting sports program (which was always full) was also gutted.

In one department I know of, 30% of the staff carried. They respectfully asked that the policy change be reconsidered. It mattered not. The king had spoken. BTW, there was not precipitating event to all this, like a shooting on campus or something. It was just done. Remember, anti-gunners were on the march during the Clinton years.

In fact, if you want to see how far we've fallen in this area, take a look at the Feb 1960 issue of GUNS Magazine here:

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1960/G0260.pdf

Read the article, "Police Guns Blaze at College Match," on p30. Where was it? IU Bloomington. Here's an excerpt:

"Converging on the Indiana University campus at Bloomington last May were nearly 300 policemen from many states of the Union, Puerto Rico, Canada, and all points between. They were not going to school, though ISU has a top school of police science and administration. Rather, they came to prove what they had learned: to show that they knew how to shoot in the most unusual shooting match of the season. The Colt company and Indiana University had teamed up and footed the bill for this competition, doubly unusual because it featured strictly combat-type events fired in combat situations against time."

If we don't agressively start taking some of this territory back, it'll be chipped away little by little until there's nothing left.

 

[sj kahr k40]

You cannot carry a gun into Lucas Oil

You can carry a gun into Lucas Oil, I have done so on multiple occasions, pocket carry every time.

 

[Que]

You can carry a gun into Lucas Oil, I have done so on multiple occasions, pocket carry every time.

Definitely! The same can be done on a college campus... at least until we get things changed to where we have a choice.

 

[Delmar]

Indiana law is silent on the issue of guns on college campuses.

In other words, there is no law against it.

 

[Delmar]

I really hope next year they pass a law protecting handguns on campus. This year they got the parking lot bill, next year I say campus bill!

Don't hold your breath!

 

[pillsbury1983]

No. But it's a common fallacy spread by anti-gunners. Welcome to their ranks.

I'm not anti-gun, I asked a question.

 

[Eddie]

As you've all figured out, it's a violation of university policy to carry on an IU campus for faculty, staff, and students.

Here's a bit of history: It wasn't always so. The policy was changed in the mid 1990's when Myles Brand (spit) was IU President. He also forced the gun club where all the local LEOs trained at the time (and which had been around for almost 100 yrs) off the BL campus (it's now in Freedom, IN as the Sycamore Valley Gun Club). The shooting sports program (which was always full) was also gutted.

In one department I know of, 30% of the staff carried. They respectfully asked that the policy change be reconsidered. It mattered not. The king had spoken. BTW, there was not precipitating event to all this, like a shooting on campus or something. It was just done. Remember, anti-gunners were on the march during the Clinton years.

In fact, if you want to see how far we've fallen in this area, take a look at the Feb 1960 issue of GUNS Magazine here:

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/1960/G0260.pdf

Read the article, "Police Guns Blaze at College Match," on p30. Where was it? IU Bloomington. Here's an excerpt:

"Converging on the Indiana University campus at Bloomington last May were nearly 300 policemen from many states of the Union, Puerto Rico, Canada, and all points between. They were not going to school, though ISU has a top school of police science and administration. Rather, they came to prove what they had learned: to show that they knew how to shoot in the most unusual shooting match of the season. The Colt company and Indiana University had teamed up and footed the bill for this competition, doubly unusual because it featured strictly combat-type events fired in combat situations against time."

If we don't agressively start taking some of this territory back, it'll be chipped away little by little until there's nothing left.

Not to argue but there was the Eigenmann Hall shootings in 92. I was there for that one. I was not however aware of the policy change by Brand.

That sucked about Sycamore Valley too. It was a beautiful range.

 

[cositc]

Can we get a description?

White male late 20's maybe medium build with dark hair.
Sorry that it's so bad.

 

[cositc]

If the OP wants to sue, he should do that. If he gets anything I hope he buys a car instead of another gun, so he can stop depending on his dad to pick him up.

I don't plan on suing and i already have a car but it was in the shop that day, with a broken gas line.

 

[Delmar]

Last week, 20/20 on ABC did a special segment on “If I Only Had a Gun” and the IUPUI Dean of Students Office, the IUPUI Police, and IUPUI Emergency Preparedness want to share two of the clips from this broadcast with you. The videos highlight why allowing anyone other than law enforcement personnel to have weapons on campus is a terrible decision. They are simulations done in a classroom at Muhlenberg College and they are very powerful.
When you have about fifteen minutes in the next few days, please click on the links below.
'If I Only Had a Gun': Click Here for 20/20 Special - ABC News
Shooting Under Fire - ABC News

Those videos are very powerful and they do point out why training, beyond target shooting is a needed. Having said that, those students were set up to fail, just a bit. The shooter was not just a run of the mill bad guy. He was the person who trains cops for these situations. It is also pretty obvious that the shooter knew there was an armed opponent in the room, and may have even known their location in the room. Also the room was set up so that the students were sort of "fish in a barrel" which could be the case in a real life situation, but not necessarily.

 

[cositc]

That's no problem. I just see this different than you. At least you didn't give me negative rep!

Some of us are trying to get these "rules" changed. It doesn't help for a member of the most relevant gun forums in the state to intentionally break the "rule" and snub his nose at those who are, in their view, trying to protect themselves and students. Just my .

I would like to know when i snubed my nose at those who are, in their view, trying to protect themselves and students.

 

[cositc]

Agreed, but the OP was aware of the "rule". I do not want to advocate for more than in necessary and that's a check. I do see how my thought process can be a bit off target, though.

Thanks for your insight.

where did i say that i knew about the rule?

 

[Que]

I would like to know when i snubed my nose at those who are, in their view, trying to protect themselves and students.

Costic, I've enjoyed your thread and I learned some things. If you choose to OC on campus, it's your right to make that choice. Hope it works out for you.

In the fall, we (students, faculty, and staff) will try to get the administration to the table, once again, to discuss handguns on campus. We can use all the student help that's available. If you are enrolled, please join us.

 

[cosermann]

Not to argue but there was the Eigenmann Hall shootings in 92. I was there for that one. I was not however aware of the policy change by Brand.

Glad you brought that up. On the 1992 shooting (to refresh our memory):

"On April 23rd, 1992 a graduate student, Susan Clements was stalked and murdered by an ex-boyfriend, Andreas Drexler, in what is believed to be the first murder of an IU student on the IU campus. Drexler drove from Stanford University with the intent to kill Clements, whom he had been threatening for several months. Police found Drexler's car filled with 2000 rounds of ammunition, a hunting knife, three gasoline cans and a bible. They also found a campus map with Eigenmann Hall circled. Clements was killed on the 14th floor, having sustained three bullet wounds. Another student, 22 year old Steven Molen tried to intervene [without effective means to do so, I might add] and was also shot. He died six days later. Molen and Clements were good friends at the time and it is believed the Molen tried to protect Clements. After shooting the two students, Drexler took his own life a few blocks away from Eigenmann Hall. Partly because of this event, Indiana was among the first states to pass anti-stalking legislation."

So, this was actually a case that would not have been stopped by the policy change. The gun was brought to campus, from off campus, by someone who would not have been under the policy (i.e. not IU faculty, staff, or student). If anything, that incident agrues the case FOR students on campus having access to firearms to defend themselves.

Hope that "anti-stalking legislation" makes everyone feel safer, btw.

Carry on.

 

[Suprtek]

My daughter is getting ready to start at IUPUI. Now I don't plan on flaunting my firearm whenever I am there but the possibility exists that someone may see it. I'm curious if this could end up having any negative effect on my daughter's status as a student.