IUPUI Campus Police stoped me.

[Joe Williams]

Once they had your LTCH, they had no reasonable suspicion that a crime was being committed. Heck, they had none before, but especially once they got it in hand they had no legal reason to detain you.

They broke the law, and violated your rights by doing so. Up to you if you want to defend your rights, or encourage them to commit crimes against other law abiding citizens by not pursuing them.

 

[Que]

I really hope next year they pass a law protecting handguns on campus. This year they got the parking lot bill, next year I say campus bill!

The new law does not apply to students, staff, and faculty on university campuses.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm curious as well. Was this on or off campus? It had to be off campus, other wise it's illegal to have a firearm there.

No, it isn't illegal to have a firearm on campus.

 

[Eddie]

The new law does not apply to students, staff, and faculty on university campuses.

Isn't it ok under the policy for faculty to arm themselves, just not lowly staff and students?

 

[Joe Williams]

I hope it doesn't come down to this, but if an employee steps on campus with a firearm, he has violated University policy. It matters not that he was in a building.

It would be much better, for him, if he were able to leave the gun in his car while at work. Sounds like he is without transportation right now and even having a gun in the car is STILL against policy, but at least no one would see it.

And their police illegally detaining him constitutes both a criminal and a civil legal hazard to them. If they chooe to try to discipline him, it shouldn't be too hard to get them to see the light.

 

[96firephoenix]

I see that the police do have the right to stop you if you are OC'ing to determine whether you are committing a crime

Well that is debatable. However, OCing on IUPUI property WILL get you negative attention. Since firearms are a no-no and the staff know it, they WILL call.

you do have a very good point. the earlier comment I left opens the door to a whole host of police stopping... eg stopping people who are driving down the road to see if they have a driver's licence... although... this makes more sense than stopping someone who is oc'ing... more people are killed in car accidents/crimes than are in gun accidents/crimes.

I think with a complaint made* that it is not unreasonable to ask for proof of licensure, how about that. *even though the complaint was kinda bogus

 

[cositc]

My guess is that you're typing away as fast as your fingers will type; however, I just found it funny that you're working for "net literacy" when your posts are...well...nevermind.

yes I was typing as fast as I could and i'm doing it from my phone, I also noticed that and I was like

 

[Que]

Isn't it ok under the policy for faculty to arm themselves, just not lowly staff and students?

I researched and talked to many officials and I was told that faculty, staff, and students are in the same boat. We all risk our employment or possible expulsion if caught with a firearm on campus.

 

[Que]

And their police illegally detaining him constitutes both a criminal and a civil legal hazard to them. If they chooe to try to discipline him, it shouldn't be too hard to get them to see the light.

Maybe, but I can't determine if he was "illegally detained" from the information he provided. Besides, the University probably wouldn't care about him, but go after the NFP that he's volunteering for and make them deal with him.

 

[Eddie]

I researched and talked to many officials and I was told that faculty, staff, and students are in the same boat. We all risk our employment or possible expulsion if caught with a firearm on campus.

This is what I found:

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions | Policies for All Staff at Indiana University | UHRS

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions
AFSCME(BL) 6.10 • AFSCME(IN) 5.5 • AFSCME(SB) 6.7 • CWA 4.7 • PA/SS 5.5 • Hourly 3.5
Revised 2003

Employees covered by this policy
This policy applies to all Staff and Hourly employees at IU.
A. Introduction

1. A safe and secure environment is a fundamental prerequisite for fulfilling the university mission of teaching, research, and public service. IU is committed to maintaining a workplace that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from campus communities that contribute to violence or serious harm.

B. Policy

1. While on university-controlled sites and at university-directed activities, employees are prohibited from introducing, possessing, using, buying, or selling unauthorized weapons, firearms, ammunition, explosives, or items deemed by campus police to be dangerous.

C. Violation of this policy

1. Any employee who becomes aware of a violation of this policy is required to immediately notify the campus police department or his or her supervisor.
2. Violation of this policy is considered a serious offense that endangers the safety of the university communities. Therefore, this offense may result in immediate termination of employment.

D. Definitions

1. An employee is any IU employee, (regardless of employment status) excluding academic employees.
2. An unauthorized firearm is any firearm, regardless of whether the owner has a valid state permit to carry the firearm. The following firearms are excluded from this definition:
   1. A firearm in the possession of a law enforcement officer who is authorized to possess the firearm, either on or off duty, by the employing law enforcement agency.
   2. A firearm in the possession of a person who has received prior written authorization from the campus police chief to possess a firearm on campus.
   3. A firearm that is legally permitted and is being transported directly to or from an off-campus location and university firing ranges located on university campuses.
3. University premises refers to all Indiana University properties.
4. A university-controlled site refers to all permanent Indiana University facilities on all campuses or other locations. It includes any temporary facilities that the university uses to conduct an activity intended primarily for faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university, rather than for the general public.
5. A university-directed activity is an event intended solely for IU faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university; it is not intended for the general public. These activities include, but are not limited to, graduation events, receptions, meetings, and conferences.
6. A campus police chief is one who has been assigned administrative responsibility for campus law enforcement or security activities.

It appears to exclude academic employees. So the earlier statement that IU only wants trained police to have weapons for safety reasons cannot be true if they will allow say a professor with no training whatsoever to carry but deny that same right to a staff member.

 

[jdhaines]

I think you handled it very well. One thing to note...

I'm a big fan of cooperating with Police if they're being curteous and kind, as in just doing their job and due diligence. If the "nice" cop asked for my IN Driver's License, I probably would have given it to him. If the "mean" cop would have asked, I wouldn't have. You don't have to turn over any INDL if you aren't driving. In fact, if you aren't in violation of a statute or ordinance, you don't have to "self-identify" at all outside of your LTCH (which I realize does identify you). Something to think about.

*Cross fingers that someone doesn't come along and prove me wrong, because I'm 99% sure that's correct.*

 

[Joe Williams]

Maybe, but I can't determine if he was "illegally detained" from the information he provided. Besides, the University probably wouldn't care about him, but go after the NFP that he's volunteering for and make them deal with him.

Indiana Supreme Court just said that once an LTCH has been provided, there is no more reasonable suspicion. Once they had his license in hand, they should have left him be, instead he was detained for at least 15 minutes according to his post.

They broke the law, and violated his rights. And going after his NFP should simply result in a multi-million dollar lawsuit against them for their willful violation of his rights via the illegal detention.

 

[Que]

This is what I found:

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions | Policies for All Staff at Indiana University | UHRS

Firearms and Weapons Prohibitions
AFSCME(BL) 6.10 • AFSCME(IN) 5.5 • AFSCME(SB) 6.7 • CWA 4.7 • PA/SS 5.5 • Hourly 3.5
Revised 2003

Employees covered by this policy
This policy applies to all Staff and Hourly employees at IU.
A. Introduction

1. A safe and secure environment is a fundamental prerequisite for fulfilling the university mission of teaching, research, and public service. IU is committed to maintaining a workplace that is free of violence. This obligation includes eliminating recognized hazards from campus communities that contribute to violence or serious harm.

B. Policy

1. While on university-controlled sites and at university-directed activities, employees are prohibited from introducing, possessing, using, buying, or selling unauthorized weapons, firearms, ammunition, explosives, or items deemed by campus police to be dangerous.

C. Violation of this policy

1. Any employee who becomes aware of a violation of this policy is required to immediately notify the campus police department or his or her supervisor.
2. Violation of this policy is considered a serious offense that endangers the safety of the university communities. Therefore, this offense may result in immediate termination of employment.

D. Definitions

1. An employee is any IU employee, (regardless of employment status) excluding academic employees.
2. An unauthorized firearm is any firearm, regardless of whether the owner has a valid state permit to carry the firearm. The following firearms are excluded from this definition:
   1. A firearm in the possession of a law enforcement officer who is authorized to possess the firearm, either on or off duty, by the employing law enforcement agency.
   2. A firearm in the possession of a person who has received prior written authorization from the campus police chief to possess a firearm on campus.
   3. A firearm that is legally permitted and is being transported directly to or from an off-campus location and university firing ranges located on university campuses.
3. University premises refers to all Indiana University properties.
4. A university-controlled site refers to all permanent Indiana University facilities on all campuses or other locations. It includes any temporary facilities that the university uses to conduct an activity intended primarily for faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university, rather than for the general public.
5. A university-directed activity is an event intended solely for IU faculty, employees, students, or invited guests of the university; it is not intended for the general public. These activities include, but are not limited to, graduation events, receptions, meetings, and conferences.
6. A campus police chief is one who has been assigned administrative responsibility for campus law enforcement or security activities.

It appears to exclude academic employees. So the earlier statement that IU only wants trained police to have weapons for safety reasons cannot be true if they will allow say a professor with no training whatsoever to carry but deny that same right to a staff member.

I used this exact policy to argue for my right to carry, but I was pointed to the faculty handbook, which prohibits them to carry.

I will not give up, but so far I have only been given the opportunity to lock up my gun upon arriving to work. Doing this can take as long as the IUPD determines, since I must wait for someone to assist me. Also, I can be there a long time when I'm trying to gain access to my gun when departing campus. Overall, it's not worth it to me.

 

[Eddie]

I used this exact policy to argue for my right to carry, but I was pointed to the faculty handbook, which prohibits them to carry.

I will not give up, but so far I have only been given the opportunity to lock up my gun upon arriving to work. Doing this can take as long as the IUPD determines, since I must wait for someone to assist me. Also, I can be there a long time when I'm trying to gain access to my gun when departing campus. Overall, it's not worth it to me.

Wonder why they would carve an exception in their policy for academics but then deny it by means of the handbook. What are the penalties for violating the handbook?

 

[Comp]

The new law does not apply to students, staff, and faculty on university campuses.

I know that the parking lot bill does not affect campus. I was just saying they did good and did right. I hope they work on something for campuses next.

 

[Que]

Wonder why they would carve an exception in their policy for academics but then deny it by means of the handbook. What are the penalties for violating the handbook?

P.O.L.I.T.I.C.S.

 

[Eddie]

P.O.L.I.T.I.C.S.

Yeah, I've dealt with those sacks of . They created it this way for a reason. Need to find out what the loophole is and then throw it in their face. I'm betting there is a different, lesser penalty for not following the handbook than there is for violating policy.

 

[Whosyer]

Was the OP carrying any.......coffee?

 

[DocBoCook]

P.O.L.I.T.I.C.S.

I hate them. But what do you think the likelyhood of the Campus C.O.P. approving me carry if I walk a few miles to get there through the crummy neighborhoods?

Do you work at IUPUI Que??

If so, where?

 

[Bapak2ja]

i know they help but i no good at writing.

Writing is a skill any intelligent person with a desire to appear competent can learn. If you can learn to shoot, OC and CC, you can learn to speak and write proper English. Just like the officer you mentioned, you can be unprofessional or you can be wise. Your choice. People will treat you in accordance with the way you present yourself.

BTW, you handled it well. Your self-control and wise body language defused what could have been a serious dust-up. You demonstrated clearly that no one has any reason to fear an armed citizen. Well done. Rep coming.