Inner Circle and Looter Mentality

[ThrottleJockey]

This thread has been fascinating to say the least, it has covered some interesting ground and shown some of what we all fear in a SHTF scenario.
Trust is a huge thing and once lost nearly impossible to regain.

The original question was about his friend, before you paint a target on his forehead I would say give it some time. The information given was basic and the conversation may have been tongue and cheek to him, he may not even take this stuff serious at this point, lots of us have made horse**** boasts before engaging our brains, as we spoke the words we would either not act on them or that it was utter bs.

This friend in time may come to realize that this is serious **** and have a major shift in perspective.

I wanted to comment on the INGO issue as well. If we are building relationships for survival based on a screen and keyboard then were ****ing up right off the bat.

One thing that will rule in SHTF is chaos and uncertainty and knowing who your allies are going to be ahead of time may not be possible.
You may not be able to make it to where you need to go and will have to come together with whoever is handy and being able to read people at this point may be invaluable.

There are guys on here that have already stated that if within range your a threat. Harsh but it all depends on who writes the history when its all over.

I don't like to think that we will have to be absolute in all our dealings with all other people, each situation will have to be evaluated, I for one wouldn't want to put a round in a guy that was looking for a safe place for his wife and daughter, maybe he could have contributed to the group as a whole.

In my opinion anyone who speaks in absolutes now will be dangerous to be around anyhow when **** hits the fan.
Remember when were hanging out shooting the **** I may say crap just for the sake of being a smart ass about it or to bring a little levity to the conversation, judge me on this as some would have you do your friend and you may lose a valuable ally or asset in the process, (because I am a smart ass at times,)

All very good and valid points. The thing that is causing such varied attitudes is likely the different ideas we each have as to what exactly SHTF is. Some may think along the lines of the california quakes or katrina while others are thinking more along the lines of an asteroid impact and others yet perhaps SHTF for them is nuclear holocaust, or even just a bad flood followed by a plague of locusts, or a stock market crash. When I think SHTF, I think of the worst possible scenario one can imagine, thus the "absolutes". I doubt any of us, myself included, would treat all levels of SHTF in the exact same manner. I propose we find or develop some method of categorizing the different levels of disaster. This could actually help in our individual and co-operative planning and preparing as well as in our discussions on the board and in person.

 

[Eddie]

All very good and valid points. The thing that is causing such varied attitudes is likely the different ideas we each have as to what exactly SHTF is. Some may think along the lines of the california quakes or katrina while others are thinking more along the lines of an asteroid impact and others yet perhaps SHTF for them is nuclear holocaust, or even just a bad flood followed by a plague of locusts, or a stock market crash. When I think SHTF, I think of the worst possible scenario one can imagine, thus the "absolutes". I doubt any of us, myself included, would treat all levels of SHTF in the exact same manner. I propose we find or develop some method of categorizing the different levels of disaster. This could actually help in our individual and co-operative planning and preparing as well as in our discussions on the board and in person.

One distinction that I draw in my mind is whether or not normal and emergency services will be available and how long they are out. In a bad blizzard a home might be isolated for example, unable to receive fire, police and ambulance services and unable to reach their normal grocery stores and restaurants for a period of days/weeks.

The difference between SHTF and TEOTWAWKI is that in TEOTWAWNKI the normal and emergency services will not be returning (there is no longer a government or the type of governance we are used to is gone forever) while in SHTF there is a temporary interruption on a local (maybe even a personal) level. SHTF could be as basic as a guy losing his job and not having money to buy groceries.

I think that most preppers begin by thinking about and preparing for SHTF. Some turn it into a "hobby" and start preparing for TEOTWAWKI.

I would say that one way to classify events is by looking at the number of days that they will affect an individual i.e. "three day event" or "two week event" vs. TEOTWAWKI being "infinite number of days". A weakness of this type of classification is that not every event has a predictable duration.

 

[shibumiseeker]

I think that most preppers begin by thinking about and preparing for SHTF. Some turn it into a "hobby" and start preparing for TEOTWAWKI.

I started the other way around. When I was a kid in the 80s I was preparing for nuclear holocaust. That made it a lifestyle and now I no longer worry about TEOTWAWKI. I agree completely with the distinctions since SHTF can be personal (medical emergency, loss of job) or can affect a region, but the expectation that life will resume normality while TEOTWAWKI, by its definition means that the world as we know it has ended.

 

[Zoub]

The more I read this post, the less I want to open up to the members of INGO. If you can't trust other INGO'ers in times of SHTF, who can you trust? As Jack Ryan says, thanks for the free lessons on who you are.

There are people even in this thread who "claim" to be a member of a group but WHO has met that person FTF even from within that group?

You see the tag and assume it means something and therefore ascribe a certain level of trust. Why? It is no different from a bumper sticker on a car. It tells you nothing and could be a misdirecion at that.

If I dress like a priest, am I one or someone trying to earn your trust.

The most worn out phrase of the last 3 decades.........."He is a good guy"

Really? Based on what, a referal, a 30-60 minute interview, what that person tells you, what you read in an internet forum. No. For me, in this thread there are two good people. People I can pick out of a lineup, people who I know. Only One I know well.

You don't open up on the web, not ever. Who is to say the same person is not in here three times as different personas? This is just a campfire talk without any real connection between people, any effort and not even a fire.

Being a member of INGO takes no effort and has no meaning, it is like having a library card and even child molesters have those.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

Probably just repeating here, but my view of SHTF is a societal disruption of local or greater impact that causes people to have to shift to an alternate plan for living their lives. I agree that TEOTWAWKI means that our current society is defunct and won't be restored in anything like it is today. The power failure we had in my neighborhood last night didn't cause us to do more than get out the candles and open the windows, but it _was_ a shift in our normal evening. However, it wasn't a radical shift, or one for which we were unprepared, so its effect was minimal on us. To the lady (theoretical)down the street who's bedbound and on a respirator, if she or her family had no alternate plan, that power failure could have been a life-changing event. I imagine most of us could go at least a week or two without having to go grocery shopping, but if something caused the local Kroger's to shut down or run out of food, how long before our urban neighbors would be having to go to an alternate solution for getting food? It seems obvious to me that the greater our level of preparedness, the less we will have to alter our lifestyle when a particular SHTF situation arises. Even if we do have to alter the way we do things, having prepared ourselves will less the _stress_ involved and leave us more able to quickly respond to changing conditions.

 

[Eddie]

I started the other way around. When I was a kid in the 80s I was preparing for nuclear holocaust. That made it a lifestyle and now I no longer worry about TEOTWAWKI. I agree completely with the distinctions since SHTF can be personal (medical emergency, loss of job) or can affect a region, but the expectation that life will resume normality while TEOTWAWKI, by its definition means that the world as we know it has ended.

That's neat. I started when I first moved out of my parent's home. Got a shotgun for home defense, a deadly .410 bolt action that fit in my 18 year old budget. Then I got thinking about snowstorms, since the major SHTF memory of my childhood was the blizzard of 1978. A few cans of food went in the closet along with some jugs of distilled water. (Bottled water wasn't in stores back then.) From there it just sort of grew.

 

[shibumiseeker]

That's neat. I started when I first moved out of my parent's home. Got a shotgun for home defense, a deadly .410 bolt action that fit in my 18 year old budget. Then I got thinking about snowstorms, since the major SHTF memory of my childhood was the blizzard of 1978. A few cans of food went in the closet along with some jugs of distilled water. (Bottled water wasn't in stores back then.) From there it just sort of grew.

Almost the same here. I had my own .22lr when I was 16 that mom didn't know about, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, a couple pellet guns, and a months food and water stashed in my closet as well. That was when I learned that milk jugs suck for storing water I also had three BOLs within a day's walking distance that I had some small stashes of food and ammo at. By the time I was 18 I could survive in the woods with little more than the clothes on my back if I had to. I had also moved my bedroom to the basement and had fortified the walls. My primary goals out of HS was to become and EMT and get street experience, own my own land, and to be able to retire by the time I hit 30.

By the time I was 20 I had pretty much learned that there were far more realistic things to be prepared for, which have the happy benefit of making it more likely that I would survive TEOTWAWKI. Happily, I met all three of the aforementioned goals.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

When I began, my intent was to be prepared for the worst possible scenario my mind could imagine. This meant the ability to be completely self reliant/sufficient without depending on anyone outside my immediate inner circle. This is still pretty much how it is for me. I feel that if I am as prepared as I can be for this then anything else of lesser significance is just that, a day in the park. Another aspect of this prep is mental. One must be willing and ready to do ANYTHING to survive, and able to realize what action is and isn't appropriate given the circumstances. So in short, prepare for the absolute worst and hope for the best while being able to recognize both and everything in between.

 

[bigus_D]

So in short, prepare for the absolute worst and hope for the best while being able to recognize both and everything in between.

THIS I can agree with...

 

[JJGatesE30]

Maybe this was stated and I missed it but...

Just curious what kind of weapon he spent $1500 on?

 

[E5RANGER375]

There are people even in this thread who "claim" to be a member of a group but WHO has met that person FTF even from within that group?

You see the tag and assume it means something and therefore ascribe a certain level of trust. Why? It is no different from a bumper sticker on a car. It tells you nothing and could be a misdirecion at that.

If I dress like a priest, am I one or someone trying to earn your trust.

The most worn out phrase of the last 3 decades.........."He is a good guy"

Really? Based on what, a referal, a 30-60 minute interview, what that person tells you, what you read in an internet forum. No. For me, in this thread there are two good people. People I can pick out of a lineup, people who I know. Only One I know well.

You don't open up on the web, not ever. Who is to say the same person is not in here three times as different personas? This is just a campfire talk without any real connection between people, any effort and not even a fire.

Being a member of INGO takes no effort and has no meaning, it is like having a library card and even child molesters have those.

some groups do meet/have met, and have a lot of meaning. I have spent time personaly with quite afew people I've met on INGO and If anything I liked them even more in person, not less. i think i've only met one total weirdo on here and in person. it didnt take too long to figure that out either.
The term "good guy" is a general term related to a transaction for the most part and lets people know that meeting them in that sense will be a good outcome probly. Also, a lot of people can tell a lot about a person in 30 minutes. maybe not enough to leave your kids with them, but a lot. body language is BIG.

matter of fact i have got to know at least 5 people off here that i would consider friends, and I'm sure as i get to know afew more better there will be more friends i can add to that list. and i dont use that term friend lightly.

 

[tyler34]

some groups do meet/have met, and have a lot of meaning. I have spent time personaly with quite afew people I've met on INGO and If anything I liked them even more in person, not less. i think i've only met one total weirdo on here and in person. it didnt take too long to figure that out either.
The term "good guy" is a general term related to a transaction for the most part and lets people know that meeting them in that sense will be a good outcome probly. Also, a lot of people can tell a lot about a person in 30 minutes. maybe not enough to leave your kids with them, but a lot. body language is BIG.

matter of fact i have got to know at least 5 people off here that i would consider friends, and I'm sure as i get to know afew more better there will be more friends i can add to that list. and i dont use that term friend lightly.

we're more than friends

 

[jeremy]

some groups do meet/have met, and have a lot of meaning. I have spent time personaly with quite afew people I've met on INGO and If anything I liked them even more in person, not less. i think i've only met one total weirdo on here and in person. it didnt take too long to figure that out either.
The term "good guy" is a general term related to a transaction for the most part and lets people know that meeting them in that sense will be a good outcome probly. Also, a lot of people can tell a lot about a person in 30 minutes. maybe not enough to leave your kids with them, but a lot. body language is BIG.

matter of fact i have got to know at least 5 people off here that i would consider friends, and I'm sure as i get to know afew more better there will be more friends i can add to that list. and i dont use that term friend lightly.

Not sure if I want to be your friend or not...
You being a Ranger and all...

 

[davman]

Unfortunatley I served with a lot of guys with this same attitude. I befriended someone because we were from the same part of the state back home. A few months into the friendship he stole from my room mate and I. The worst part about it is that I was a combat medic and my room mate and I had just saved his life a few weeks before when in the field he had went into shock due to a heat stroke. Very few people are in my inner circle. Just because they are a vet doesn't mean they are one of the good guys.

 

[grizman]

Not sure if I want to be your friend or not...
You being a Ranger and all...

Why?
I must say this whole thread has been informative and entertaining.
E5RANGER375 has been trained to survive, by the best folks availible. How do I know this? His screen name tells the story. E5=rank, RANGER= speaks for its self, 375= 3rd battalion 75th Ranger Regiment. If you question his determination or moral compass then you don't have a clue of how to judge people!
You are asking "Are you a personal friend or something?" No. But we are "brothers"! I could use the screen name E5RANGER175 if I were inclined to do so. Yep been there, done that!
I would trust E5 to watch my back today/tomorrow anytime without even having met him! Why? Thats just the way it is with our "brotherhood" thats how we survived combat!

How would this help in a SHTF deal? Simple I know his mind set and what it would take for him to trust the folks in his group. I respect that and that would open the door for a co op between our "families".
Make no mistake folks it will take co operation as well as planning to survive long term during/after a SHTF deal. You all sound as if all you have to do is Bug Out and camp out for a month or so then return home and resume your previous life! That is not the reality of a end of society event.
People that come to my family post event will be watched closely, but given the op to prove they can contribute to the good of the group even if they have to be taught to. Come to my family in a threatening manner and you will find the warrior not the kindly gentleman rebuilding a segment of society!

Many of you use the word survival but fail to admit that survival will require the taking of some human life! We will all face a moment in this deal where we will be forced to decide wether or not we sacrifice the safety of our "family" or take the life of a threat to entire groups safety. If you can't fathom making that call well then you need know your place and follow don't attempt to lead. YOU WILL FAIL, and take some folks with you!

Make no mistake it will be hard times, hard decisions will have to be made.
I can't explain it any other way! You have to accept this is the true reality of survival or you will not survive!

Flame on if you wish! Truth is Truth, no matter how bitter it tastes.
I have been in the s**t,I fully know what it takes to survive, I know what it takes to end a human life! never question if I will kill to protect my family or to survive an attack. No question, no hesitation here! By the same token I will not permit my people to be marauders and thieves.

You see folks it will not be a brief period of unrest to overcome it will be the end of life as we know it and the beginning of the rebuilding of the true great American Society to it's former glory.

 

[jeremy]

Why?

Because I am just a dumb Mechanic for Our Uncle...
LOL

 

[grizman]

Because I am just a dumb Mechanic for Our Uncle...
LOL

OK so its because Rangers are hard on military vehicles?LOL
Maybe we seem a little Gung Ho or hard a**ed in the zone?
Thats fine, we are by training an intense class of soldier and far less humble than a "LEG", but we get the job done when others fail!
HOOYAH!

 

[Vince49]

OK so its because Rangers are hard on military vehicles?LOL
Maybe we seem a little Gung Ho or hard a**ed in the zone?
Thats fine, we are by training an intense class of soldier and far less humble than a "LEG", but we get the job done when others fail!
HOOYAH!

And some of us just take you there, cover your a.. while you work, and bring you home again!

 

[jeremy]

OK so its because Rangers are hard on military vehicles?LOL
Maybe we seem a little Gung Ho or hard a**ed in the zone?
Thats fine, we are by training an intense class of soldier and far less humble than a "LEG", but we get the job done when others fail!
HOOYAH!

LOL

Two things;
1. Without me you would walk EVERYWHERE...
2. I did not start off as a Wrench either. I just got tired of walking...

Caveat; Remember if you ain't Cav, you ain't !!!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Not sure if I want to be your friend or not...
You being a Ranger and all...

please

Grizman, thanks for the kind words my Brother. Jeremy was just foolin around, hes a great guy and a Brother to us.

I think most of us vets know what horors it will be if SHTF, and we will soldier the F up and live or be p****s and die. Our skills and mindset will be our salvation.

but, i also know a lot of non military who I trust just as much, and who are just as able to adapt and overcome. The most important thing will be to have a strong core of like minded individuals and you will have the best shot.

Vince is our ride for sure