Inner Circle and Looter Mentality

[Woodsman]

In all reality, we will never know what we are capable of and what we will do when the time is upon us.

I don't mean to be rude, but waiting until the situation arises is a really bad time to start thinking about what people are capable of. Civilized courtesy would be a thin veneer to the fight or flight instincts in a person(s) reaction to events thrust upon them.

 

[grizman]

I don't mean to be rude, but waiting until the situation arises is a really bad time to start thinking about what people are capable of. Civilized courtesy would be a thin veneer to the fight or flight instincts in a person(s) reaction to events thrust upon them.

True enough. The real problem will be with the "self trained" crowd that think the books and all those years of paintball wars has prepped them for the real thing.
Boy do they have a rude awakening coming! Some will, despite all their prep and "training", hesitate at the moment of truth. When this happens all their prep,will all be for nothing and their loved ones and stores will become the "property" of the one who didn't hesitate.

Folks truth is often ugly, survival is not easy, defending against a desperate opponent who has nothing to loose and everything to gain is a fight for existence!

worth of free advise! If you haven't been there yet, find someone who has and follow them! You and yours stand a 90% better chance of surviving than going it alone.

Don't want to offend anyones preps or their comitment to survive. Truth is I've survived situations I shouldn't have but due to luck,training and my will to survive I came home and someone else didn't
.
It really tickles me to see guy's get on the soap box that aren't military or LEO talk about what it's like to terminate a human life.

My MOS was 18B50W3W9 Look it up and see if I speak for exp or from some book learned info. Take a close look at the avatar guys! Who do you think that is? Not blowing off or trying to belittle anyone but this is some serious S**T here were talking about. You will only get one chance at being right when the time comes!

 

[shibumiseeker]

My MOS was 18B50W3W9 Look it up and see if I speak for exp or from some book learned info. Take a close look at the avatar guys! Who do you think that is? Not blowing off or trying to belittle anyone but this is some serious S**T here were talking about. You will only get one chance at being right when the time comes!

This is true of a lot of things. In no way do I want to belittle your experience or those who have been in firefights, but there's a lot of experiences in life beyond that which are equally deeply meaningful. Don't read this as me saying you are wrong, because I think what you wrote was spot on. I just wanted to add that there are other experiences than combat that prepare one for how they may react when things go pear shaped. Msny of us survive major life disasters and get on with life. Combat is only one of such things. How many soldiers do you know who are great under fire but who fell apart when their spouse left them?


My own experiences include numerous times of being there and talking to someone as they've died, being involved in major mass casualty incidents, running complex ops where lives are on the line, had my life on the line while trying to save other people, and so on and so on. I've never been in combat so of course I don't have any guarantee of how I would react, but I would tend to think that if I were trained to be a soldier at this point in my life I'd probably do ok based on my other experiences in life where training and dumb luck has allowed me to survive thus far. I suspect there's a lot of folks out there for whom this is the case as well. I won't disagree that the world is full of internet commandos whose imaginations are larger than their capabilities, but there's also a lot of ordinary folks who do all right when the SHTF.

 

[Steve]

"He who hesitates is lost" never rang truer. Military, LEO, or John Q Citizen makes no difference at that crucial moment. Training and will to survive does. And you don't get either from a book. Knowledge and information, yes. Will and commitment, no.

 

[irishfan]

This is true of a lot of things. In no way do I want to belittle your experience or those who have been in firefights, but there's a lot of experiences in life beyond that which are equally deeply meaningful. Don't read this as me saying you are wrong, because I think what you wrote was spot on. I just wanted to add that there are other experiences than combat that prepare one for how they may react when things go pear shaped. Msny of us survive major life disasters and get on with life. Combat is only one of such things. How many soldiers do you know who are great under fire but who fell apart when their spouse left them?


My own experiences include numerous times of being there and talking to someone as they've died, being involved in major mass casualty incidents, running complex ops where lives are on the line, had my life on the line while trying to save other people, and so on and so on. I've never been in combat so of course I don't have any guarantee of how I would react, but I would tend to think that if I were trained to be a soldier at this point in my life I'd probably do ok based on my other experiences in life where training and dumb luck has allowed me to survive thus far. I suspect there's a lot of folks out there for whom this is the case as well. I won't disagree that the world is full of internet commandos whose imaginations are larger than their capabilities, but there's also a lot of ordinary folks who do all right when the SHTF.

Great post! Yes training and the test of being in a tense situation are great things that most will thankfully never have to go through. However, there are a lot of people who have been in these situations that can't handle a lot of things that are simple to others. A lot of people are capable of taking a life who have never seen a day of combat as well as many have froze in combat when the time came for them to react. Hopefully, the situation never occurs where we have to see how we will react in a SHTF scenario but it is best if we all prepare the best we can.

 

[E5RANGER375]

anyone who wants to gain combat experience before SHTF or be in SHTF, just go downtown during black expo or circle city classic.

 

[Que]

anyone who wants to gain combat experience before SHTF or be in SHTF, just go downtown during black expo or circle city classic.

How about going to the local armed forces recruiting station and signing on the doted line to get some experience battling against the enemies of the U.S.?

 

[rhart]

There are different levels of friends. I agree with what was said. You can keep this guy as a friend, just as a different level. You may need to barter with him some day. I have heard guys say that if they have enough guns and ammo, they can take the rest of what they need. And this was a post I saw on here about 3 months ago. I consider myself very honest. However, if all of your supplies are depleted and your traveling through a orchard and your family is starving and you take some apples, is this stealing or surviving? Is this looting or improvising? I like it when "friends" give me a true taste of character. I would rather see it now then in a SHTF situation when I am counting on them with my life.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I was talking with another member and he said something I thought drove a point home about looter mentality in a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation. for privacy reasons I will not disclose his or her name. If this member wishes to identify themselves then thats their right. (i agree totaly with the below quote):

"If people are willing to fight over the last cheap DVD player or trample another person to death during the day after Thanksgiving sales, imagine what they will do for the last food when they are facing the real prospect of starving. I agree, people are animals and they will do what they can to survive, even if it means shooting someone for the last can of beans at the grocery store."

probly some of your own wives have participated in such events, or maybe you yourself have??? The quoted statement could'nt be more true!! people will QUICKLY deteriorate into animals when SHTF and they realize it is for a long time or forever.
once it becomes absolute SHTF, then it will be a madhouse.

I truely believe that one must prepare now, and keep preps a secret or at least the location of preps a secret. even your local government will come after your preps when things become bad enough. If you wish to live after SHTF, you MUST avoid the general population. death could come at any second, and is ABSOLUTE!!! there is no restart button when your head looks like a squashed grapefruit because your brains got blown out. in a SHTF environment, there will not be organized medical aid at your disposal. a simple cut could turn into a deadly infection. dont take unnecessary risk.

remember the ads that told you by eating proper foods you add years to your life?

well, by preparing NOW, you add days, months and then maybe years to your life.

 

[Que]

Quoting another source: "If people are willing to fight over the last cheap DVD player or trample another person to death during the day after Thanksgiving sales, imagine what they will do for the last food when they are facing the real prospect of starving. I agree, people are animals and they will do what they can to survive, even if it means shooting someone for the last can of beans at the grocery store.".

I agree, totally! I guess when thinking about these situations, it's not how I believe I would act, but how others could possibly act.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I agree, totally! I guess when thinking about these situations, it's not how I believe I would act, but how others could possibly act.

exactly!!!

Hitler (scum bag), probly used this most effective. ANYTIME you group people together into a croud, the croud WILL act in extreme ways!!!! gathering massive groups of people and iciting emotion will get any results!!! even if you group catholic preist in with a few radicals, and tell them they must kill to live, the majority of them will do anything to live!!!

look at history!!! look at stories of the dead jews rounded up in the gas chambers/fake showers, after they were dead. once people realized they were gonna die, the majority of them went into pannic and did horible things to each other to try and escape (a pile of bodies were usualy in the middle of the floor, on the bottom were the women, children, babies, and on top were the men, who used the others as a ladder to try and escape the gas, crushing them in the process!!!), although there was no escape. also look at how the nazis used cooperative prisoners to do TERRIBLE things to their fellow prisoners in order to stay alive alittle longer. they knew they were still marked for death, but they would kill their fellow prisoners if neccessary to preserve their lives a little longer. (not just jews. jews werent the only ones killed by nazis. they killed, gays, jews, blacks, jehovahs witnesses, gipsys, etc. you just hear about the jews the most)

i dont highlight these tradgic stories of concentration camps, in order to put blame against the prisoners subjected to these horible circumstances, but im just showing that people ANY PEOPLE, will do ANYTHING to live!!!! ANYTHING! and anyone that says they wont resort to extreme measures to live once your at that final absolute crossroad, is just lying to themselves. The thing to remember is if you are forced to act in a way contrary to your beliefs, DONT DO IT TO ENJOY it!!!! do it if you have no other choice but death.

many people will say they would'nt kill their pets for food. they say that now when they can get food from the fridge or from a pantry. but would they say that if their child was starving to death and you had no other food source in sight? the answer is NO. people might not like it, but they would do it. or they would die.

 

[irishfan]

probly some of your own wives have participated in such events, or maybe you yourself have??? The quoted statement could'nt be more true!! people will QUICKLY deteriorate into animals when SHTF and they realize it is for a long time or forever.
once it becomes absolute SHTF, then it will be a madhouse.

I truely believe that one must prepare now, and keep preps a secret or at least the location of preps a secret. even your local government will come after your preps when things become bad enough. If you wish to live after SHTF, you MUST avoid the general population. death could come at any second, and is ABSOLUTE!!! there is no restart button when your head looks like a squashed grapefruit because your brains got blown out. in a SHTF environment, there will not be organized medical aid at your disposal. a simple cut could turn into a deadly infection. dont take unnecessary risk.

Funny you mentioned this.....a couple weeks ago I grabbed a large bag of rice at the store when my GF was with me. When we got home she asked me why I got such a big bag since I don't eat much rice. I am beginning to think that she is suspecting a big rat of taking the rice and beans that I have bought since they are not in the cabinets.

I don't fear what I am doing if trouble occurs but it is what others will and won't do that scares me.

 

[bigus_D]

...but im just showing that people ANY PEOPLE, will do ANYTHING to live!!!! ANYTHING! and anyone that says they wont resort to extreme measures to live once your at that final absolute crossroad, is just lying to themselves.

I must say that I disagree. While most people will do anything, some people won't.

Any time you make such a blanket statement (i.e. including every single man, woman, child), you are going to be wrong. There will be individuals who fall outside of the paradigm you are framing.

Some people will simply NOT cross certain moral lines.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

I must say that I disagree. While most people will do anything, some people won't.

Any time you make such a blanket statement (i.e. including every single man, woman, child), you are going to be wrong. There will be individuals who fall outside of the paradigm you are framing.

Some people will simply NOT cross certain moral lines.

Yes, but if you want to bet which way people will go, in general, tend toward the worst common denominator.

 

[Que]

I must say that I disagree. While most people will do anything, some people won't.

Any time you make such a blanket statement (i.e. including every single man, woman, child), you are going to be wrong. There will be individuals who fall outside of the paradigm you are framing.

Some people will simply NOT cross certain moral lines.

Even if it was 1 in 1,000,000, I'm not sure the one that will do anything to anyone is on your side of town, rather than mine. Not knowing that causes me to want to be prepared to protect and provide for my family if the worst were to happen.

I live by the 12-P's - **** Poor Preparation Produced **** Poor Performance, **** Poor Performance Promotes Pain! I don't want my family to suffer pain due to my lack of preparation.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Some people will simply NOT cross certain moral lines.

and those people fall into one of 3 probable categpries:

1st: they have prepared

2nd: they belong to a group who prepared for them (including bought into a plan)

3rd: those that refuse to do things neccessary for their survival, so they will be among the dead.

 

[bigus_D]

Yes, but if you want to bet which way people will go, in general, tend toward the worst common denominator.

Even if it was 1 in 1,000,000, I'm not sure the one that will do anything to anyone is on your side of town, rather than mine. Not knowing that causes me to want to be prepared to protect and provide for my family if the worst were to happen.

I live by the 12-P's - **** Poor Preparation Produced **** Poor Performance, **** Poor Performance Promotes Pain! I don't want my family to suffer pain due to my lack of preparation.

and those people fall into one of 3 probable categpries:

1st: they have prepared

2nd: they belong to a group who prepared for them (including bought into a plan)

3rd: those that refuse to do things neccessary for their survival, so they will be among the dead.

I totally agree with all of this. While I will admit to not being as prepaired as I'd like, I AM improving my situation daily. I do this so that I won't be faced (hopefully) with a decision to cross that moral line.

I won't hesitate to protect what is mine. I believe this is what you are all saying as well. What I won't do, is kill my neighbor to take what is his. What I hear in this thread is the ascertion that when push comes to shove, you are ready (or should be ready) to do anything (i.e. kill your neighbor to steal his food) to stay alive. Perhaps I'm mis-reading...

 

[E5RANGER375]

I totally agree with all of this. While I will admit to not being as prepaired as I'd like, I AM improving my situation daily. I do this so that I won't be faced (hopefully) with a decision to cross that moral line.

I won't hesitate to protect what is mine. I believe this is what you are all saying as well. What I won't do, is kill my neighbor to take what is his. What I hear in this thread is the ascertion that when push comes to shove, you are ready (or should be ready) to do anything (i.e. kill your neighbor to steal his food) to stay alive. Perhaps I'm mis-reading...

i too dont want to be forced to kill anyone. especialy because of my own lack of preparedness. i prepare because i dont rely on others to support my family. its my job as a man.
I am a member of a MSG. People in that group are like minded, and we will develope a trust among each other (some i already know). and we will bond together for the purpose of protecting each other. but still, everyone in the group is preparing on their own too. no one is TOTALY relying on another for everything. food is just one aspect of survival. if i have to pay a person with food for their skills i need (example: doctor) then thats cool with me, its barter. just like my skills as a soldier might bennefit people and earn me a meal (just for example).

I will kill anyone NOW who wishes to harm my family and thats my right and legal too. in SHTF there will be no law and order. it will be a free for all for the majority, and I will avoid them as much as possible so im not forced to kill anyone. I dont wanna harm anyone who innocent.

i hear this term: "kill my neighbors" a lot. people dont realize your neighbors will be the ones trying to kill YOU for what you have, because they didnt prepare. or your neighbors will die from other means. I will NOT hand out my families food to neighbors who did'nt prepare, unless they have something to barter for it that i can use. SHTF isnt the time to develope a sense of compassion.

also, if you barter with food, you better be carefull, because once people know you have it they will come for it. my bug out plans dont rely on staying in place, so i will never see my "neighbors" again once i leave.

 

[bigus_D]

... i hear this term: "kill my neighbors" a lot. people dont realize your neighbors will be the ones trying to kill YOU for what you have, because they didnt prepare. or your neighbors will die from other means. ...

I totally agree with your post. When I say "neighbors" I'm using the term loosly to mean other people outside my inner circle. Certainly after a major SHTF event, the people around you will be your biggest threat.

I am moving soon, and fully intend to meet my neighbors (at least the three or four within a mile of my place). Hopefully I'll find them to be like minded folks. Ideally, they will become part of my own "MSG" of sorts... We'll see where that goes (without exposing the full extent of my own preps).

Anyhow, I think we are both on the same page for the most part. I agree that most folks probably haven't fully considered the worst case scenarios and that the majory (perhaps the vast majority) will throw away any and all morality when put up against the wall. I just believe that some will maintain their moral code. I hope to never be faced with a situation like that, but also pray I'll make the right decisions.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I totally agree with your post. When I say "neighbors" I'm using the term loosly to mean other people outside my inner circle. Certainly after a major SHTF event, the people around you will be your biggest threat.

I am moving soon, and fully intend to meet my neighbors (at least the three or four within a mile of my place). Hopefully I'll find them to be like minded folks. Ideally, they will become part of my own "MSG" of sorts... We'll see where that goes (without exposing the full extent of my own preps).

Anyhow, I think we are both on the same page for the most part. I agree that most folks probably haven't fully considered the worst case scenarios and that the majory (perhaps the vast majority) will throw away any and all morality when put up against the wall. I just believe that some will maintain their moral code. I hope to never be faced with a situation like that, but also pray I'll make the right decisions.

i hope you find out you have good neighbors after you move in. good luck.
the odds are in your favor just by not having a lot of neighbors.

im not religious but i do have a moral code and will try my best to do the moral thing if possible. even if i was religious i would GLADLY damn myself to eternal torture in hell, rather than see my family die of starvation, or force them to do immoral things themselves.