INGO member in handcuffs

[henktermaat]

The word is profession.

I merely suggested redirecting the anger to proper channels where progressive action might be taken. What you do with it is up to you.

And you also correct other people's spelling. How delightful.

 

[VUPDblue]

Come on guys, I don't WANT to have to close this one.

 

[printcraft]

Come on guys, I don't WANT to have to close this one.

Make Que do it, he's the new guy.
It will be a good test of his mettle.

 

[ATM]

IBT...









...wait for it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Come on guys, I don't WANT to have to close this one.

I will try not to hurt anymore cops feelings here so it doesnt get closed like all the other cop fact threads.

 

[ProLibertate]

yeah attack my spelling instead of addressing the issue. that will teach me. And I suggested that you redirect your anger towards the proper channels IN your profession.

I havent seen anything close to professionalism coming from local law enforcement lately.

What issue? The issue has already been addressed. This thread has simply turned into a giant, uncontrolled rant from people who were, for the most part, not even there.
I have already expressed that I disagree with the actions of the Metro officers involved in the incident at the City Market.
I have urged those involved to file complaints through the proper channels.

Joe Williams (who was not even there) and others called for LEO's on this site to "arrest the criminal thug officers" involved based on hearsay and blind anger without probable cause or due process. It doesn't work that way.
It one of YOU were arrested based purely upon what somebody else had said, you would be up in arms about it.
The arguments here have taken on a mob mentality that is completely emotion driven, with no basis in fact.

I am still having a hard time figuring out how this became an "us vs. them" situation to begin with, especially when more than one LEO on this site has verbalized their support of the victims.

We're not out to get anybody here, despite what you have convinced yourself.

 

[VUPDblue]

I will try not to hurt anymore cops feelings here so it doesnt get closed like all the other cop fact threads.

Your opinion is your opinion and I respect that. It is your delivery of said opinion that needs work....

 

[henktermaat]

Don't close it. These things pass and in a few pages we'll forget it ever happened

 

[mrjarrell]

Don't close it. These things pass and in a few pages we'll forget it ever happened

^^^ This!

 

[ProLibertate]

Don't close it. These things pass and in a few pages we'll forget it ever happened

+1

No hard feeling on this end. I don't hold a grudge.
This is a topic people are passionate about, so it stands to reason that discussion will become heated at times.
Agree all the time or not, I'll buy any one of you a beer if we meet on the street. We really are on the same side, or we wouldn't be here.

 

[henktermaat]

+1

No hard feeling on this end. I don't hold a grudge.
This is a topic people are passionate about, so it stands to reason that discussion will become heated at times.
Agree all the time or not, I'll buy any one of you a beer if we meet on the street. We really are on the same side, or we wouldn't be here.

What a guy. I agree 110%

 

[E5RANGER375]

What issue? The issue has already been addressed. This thread has simply turned into a giant, uncontrolled rant from people who were, for the most part, not even there.
I have already expressed that I disagree with the actions of the Metro officers involved in the incident at the City Market.
I have urged those involved to file complaints through the proper channels.

Joe Williams (who was not even there) and others called for LEO's on this site to "arrest the criminal thug officers" involved based on hearsay and blind anger without probable cause or due process. It doesn't work that way.
It one of YOU were arrested based purely upon what somebody else had said, you would be up in arms about it.
The arguments here have taken on a mob mentality that is completely emotion driven, with no basis in fact.

I am still having a hard time figuring out how this became an "us vs. them" situation to begin with, especially when more than one LEO on this site has verbalized their support of the victims.

We're not out to get anybody here, despite what you have convinced yourself.

people already are detained or searched based on what people "claim". No I was not there, your right. I wish I would have been. I have met a couple people that were and they are respectable men, so I will take their word for how it went down. Based on their word, the cops that were on scene lied. also once LTCH's were produced the cops violated the law as written by continuing to detain the individuals. if they still had a question about the legality of the rifle then they could have only continued to hold indy monkey for that and let the others go. handcuffing a law abiding citizen with no REAL just cause is wrong and I will always speak out against such actions. also the fact that the police lied is a trend with police lately we see that seems more sure that the winning 6 numbers to the lotery. The fact that I see cops come on here and say its not the norm is what gets on my nerves because I think it is the norm with police and its wrong. thats great that you also feel their actions were wrong, and in fact I enjoyed one of your earlier comments. But it seems certain that as soon as citizens start expressing their concerns for the profession they will be belittled by law enforcement. its the old circle the waggons routine that we see too often. I have asked before, how do we change this? and i never get a strait answer from cops. never. so how are we going to make sure that our rights are not violated when we cant even honestly discuss the issues that cause it? I am all for law enforcement that follows the law and I will fully support police that do the job as it is written in the constitution. the fact that people can easily brush off the fact that some police officers are themselves violating the law is sickening. for we all know that the same head turn would never be given to the average joe citizen. in this comment i have tried to be respectfull but honest as best i can. so again I ask .... how do we change the current police attitude and hold them acountible for unacceptible violations of our rights?

 

[Jeremiah]

I am still having a hard time figuring out how this became an "us vs. them" situation to begin with, especially when more than one LEO on this site has verbalized their support of the victims.

We're not out to get anybody here, despite what you have convinced yourself.

I have to disagree most of the problems in this country boil down to one simple conflict. The State vs. the citizens, as a representative and as an officer sworn to uphold these law, which for the most part violate civil liberties, personal freedom or natural laws and right, yourself, and anyone else in your position will have to deal with those of us ( defined as terrorists under the MIAC report) that disagree with the law and work to change it.

 

[Jeremiah]

I still don't understand the tone of your original post; I simply took it for the flagrant word vomit of anti-LEO rhetoric that it was.
Had there been a single original thought in your rant somewhere, I probably would have been more receptive.
Yes, I was offended by your attack on 'my chosen profession', as would you have been if I attacked yours without a coherent argument.
I think your frustration is misdirected.
Legislators set speed limits- not police.
Legislators set taxes- not police.
(I pay taxes too... Does that make me self employed?)

I don't think cops walk on water, nor do I automatically trust someone just because they carry a badge. I agree with your statement to judge someone based on their individual merit. But I can't help but wonder; if you really believe your own words, why go on the soapbox rant in the first place?

I agree that there are corrupt and inept officers out there, but they are by no means the majority. Let's deal with them on an individual level through the proper channels, rather than jumping on the anti-LEO bandwagon. Complaining on the internet has never solved a single one of the world's problems.

I hold standard assumptions of LEO's each new encounter presents the opportunity for each cop I meet to prove they exceed this assumption or exemplify it. thus the soap box, which was in result to your comment directed at me.

There were coherent arguments, you just have to set your bias aside long enough to see them.

I do far more than complain on the internet, just give me time. I will be one of many that help change things, I doubt many of the people in your position will not like it at first, but change is scary.

 

[ProLibertate]

I am all for law enforcement that follows the law and I will fully support police that do the job as it is written in the constitution. the fact that people can easily brush off the fact that some police officers are themselves violating the law is sickening. for we all know that the same head turn would never be given to the average joe citizen. in this comment i have tried to be respectfull but honest as best i can. so again I ask .... how do we change the current police attitude and hold them acountible for unacceptible violations of our rights?

I don't think anybody here has brushed this off.
It is no secret that some people become cops for the wrong reason.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is completely true.
It is a problem. I agree. Completely.
It is an embarrassment to the officers that really do have the public's best interest in mind. For the ones that strap on body armor every day with the best intentions of trying to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and attempt to bring people who wrong others to justice.
Cops that attempt to be the judge and jury are a detriment.
I'm sure you've seen on the news that there are several IMPD officers facing disciplinary merit boards right now for various reasons. I will not comment on their guilt or innocence. I honestly don't know... I wasn't there.
My point is that citizens followed the proper channels, the department took action, and the Merit Board (comprised entirely of civilians, by the way) will hear evidence on both sides.
THIS is the way to deal with the issue. It is not an overnight solution. It will take time, but in the end I believe that justice will prevail.

Want a couple of ideas on how to bridge the gap?
I don't have all the answers, but I have a couple suggestions:
Have an NFA show-and-tell day. Send an open ended invitation to all law enforcement agencies in the area... sort of a meet and greet.
Will it fix everything? No. Will it help bridge the gap? I believe so.
I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts on positive ways to make changes, rather than the same old us vs. them....

 

[Jeremiah]

You really run into police a lot.... Do you ever look objectively at that fact? Or are you a victim of wrong place, right time..Over. and over... and over... and over again?

Seems odd that someone can have so much run-in's with law enforcement if they are living socially acceptable lives.

I do look objectively at that fact, and have come to understand my run ins with them on a legal basis have all been based off of bureaucratic infractions, or things that the government has no right, claim, or reason to control.

Aside from that I run in to police very often in a professional sense, many things I do makes it necessary to talk to the police, very rarley am I not left with a feeling that they hold elitist mentalities. Personally when I deal with cops in personal discussions they often prove to not only be ignorant of the law, they tend to skew their interpretation of the law to make many legal actives seem illegal.

I don't bow at the altar of the state, I make distinctions between moral decisions and legal one. America isnot somehow magically pure, there is no infraction of the law that money cannot rectify. at the end of the day I have to deal with myself, and care very little for that which is legal, only what is write and what is wrong. For a quick and dirty explanation of that think," no victim, no crime" I fully understand the difference between what is and what should be, and do work to make those line up more closely.

 

[ATF Consumer]

For a limited time, mods should give me unlimited rep power, as so many of you are deserving.

 

[DaKruiser]

For a limited time, mods should give me unlimited rep power, as so many of you are deserving.

+1 me too!

 

[E5RANGER375]

I don't think anybody here has brushed this off.
It is no secret that some people become cops for the wrong reason.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is completely true.
It is a problem. I agree. Completely.
It is an embarrassment to the officers that really do have the public's best interest in mind. For the ones that strap on body armor every day with the best intentions of trying to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and attempt to bring people who wrong others to justice.
Cops that attempt to be the judge and jury are a detriment.
I'm sure you've seen on the news that there are several IMPD officers facing disciplinary merit boards right now for various reasons. I will not comment on their guilt or innocence. I honestly don't know... I wasn't there.
My point is that citizens followed the proper channels, the department took action, and the Merit Board (comprised entirely of civilians, by the way) will hear evidence on both sides.
THIS is the way to deal with the issue. It is not an overnight solution. It will take time, but in the end I believe that justice will prevail.

Want a couple of ideas on how to bridge the gap?
I don't have all the answers, but I have a couple suggestions:
Have an NFA show-and-tell day. Send an open ended invitation to all law enforcement agencies in the area... sort of a meet and greet.
Will it fix everything? No. Will it help bridge the gap? I believe so.
I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts on positive ways to make changes, rather than the same old us vs. them....

I think thats a step in the right direction, but I think the ones who will show are the ones like you who are already on the side of the citizens. your military service gives you a level of credibility and respect from me already. I cant see how anyone who has honorably served their country would want anything but the best for it in true constitutional form. but then we sadly see examples like mayor ballard and rep. murtha (dead now), and even john mccain lately, john kerry, etc, and I am ashamed they are vets.
How does one get appointed to the merrit board? im thinking its not just the average joe citizen? I highly doubt the police would want an average citizen holding their future in their hands. just my feeling.

maybe we can get a requirement that ILEA PROPERLY teaches cadets about the legalities and rights of indiana citizens with guns and carry? I think some of the problem is inadequet training. but I also know of some police who are aware of the carry laws and choose themselves to ignore the law and rather enforce their opinion that citizens shouldnt have guns or at least carry them.

Im more interested in how do we cast out those officers who KNOWINGLY violate citizens rights? the establishment, mostly the leadership.

 

[Jeremiah]

I don't think anybody here has brushed this off.
It is no secret that some people become cops for the wrong reason.
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely" is completely true.
It is a problem. I agree. Completely.
It is an embarrassment to the officers that really do have the public's best interest in mind. For the ones that strap on body armor every day with the best intentions of trying to protect those who cannot protect themselves, and attempt to bring people who wrong others to justice.


Want a couple of ideas on how to bridge the gap?
I don't have all the answers, but I have a couple suggestions:
Have an NFA show-and-tell day. Send an open ended invitation to all law enforcement agencies in the area... sort of a meet and greet.
Will it fix everything? No. Will it help bridge the gap? I believe so.
I'd love to hear anybody's thoughts on positive ways to make changes, rather than the same old us vs. them....

Community Policing Dispatch

please never talk about putting on body armor, as if you are in terrible risk of losing your life every day, I am a construction worker, I don't tout my harness, even though it has probably save my life more times than the average vest protects any police officers. Its important to be mindful of the risks yes, but realize the scope. The put my life on the line, argument is tired, and needs qualification. Everyone puts their life on the line everyday. and the added risk of physical harm is a risk that comes with the job.


Education is important for bridging the gap, as is communication, However I find my self in simple conversations with LEO's that often demonstrate their unwillingness to bridge the gap them self. If you are great, and I will commend you for any efforts to help other LEO's see the light so to speak.

But I would prefer you just convince LEO's to quit. As it is one of those unintended consequences of the division of labor. Once a certain group of people are set aside to handle a specific task people feel disinclined to handle that aspect of their lives on their own, for example many engineers don't grow food or work on their cars them self. they use the money they ear to pay specialized people to do it for them. The same is true with protection, people feel for some reason that since the police exist it is not important to provide for their own safety. However, as numerous SCOTUS cases have pointed out the job of the police is not to protect the individual but the community.