INGO member in handcuffs

[wag1911]

I'm pretty sure they weren't. If so, this wouldn't have happened. Next time the IMPD needs a heads up. They just don't need to know specifics. That way they aren't ghosting us like the first two times.

Or to undermine the whole point of the event.

Certainly in the feeler thread for another event we should consider giving the PD a heads up with a much larger group that is expected. However, this was basically a fairly small open carry luncheon in which we were not doing anything except meeting with like minded people. I didn't feel we had the need to call the PD for a luncheon.

Sadly, the lack of knowledge of the law is worse than I thought and either we can call or get harassed. Call me hogheaded, but I cannot bring myself to call law enforcement to tell them my luncheon plans and explain the law to the person on the other end. After all, shouldn't someone whose job is supposedly to enforce the law know something about it? What's next, do I need to keep the PD on speed dial before I head to Wal-Mart?

 

[Jeremiah]

This is why I thought we should have at LEAST #2 but possibly both.

Walk around down town indy, Lafayette, Kokomo, Bloomington, evansvile, and Fort Wayne oc's whilst picking up trash?

 

[Jeremiah]

There's another interpretation that applies as well, since Rosa Parks was a committed and trained activist, and her action on the bus was planned and timed for greatest chance of success. Not a spontaneous event, as is related in the myth.

The lesson being, choose your time and place for greatest impact, with timing that might actually give you a chance to win.

this is true of all encounters and plans, ducks had best be in a row before a massive OC event in indy at a major sporting event. One felon, one non 922r complaint long gun etc could discredit all of the coordination.

 

[Jeremiah]

heck, even walking down the street in certain "parts" of indy as a white man might not be common sense, but its still right. you get it Kirk, but sadly no matter how many good points you or others make on this, some will NEVER get it, and thats why we find ourselves here today. If more Americans had balls like the founders then we would have a true FREE America because the electorial process would work, but as long as people keep compromising their integrity to elect crap, then we will get what we've gotten so far.

free americans is kinda a oxymoron isnt it?

 

[Hammerhead]

I just thought I'd let you guys know that there's at least one former LEO who agrees with the people here who dealt with this travesty and believes there was a complete lack of knowledge of the law, not to mention the power trip, lack of tact and overzealous overreaction on the part of the LEO or LEOs involved in this issue.

In speaking with the LEO, who has several years of experience as an officer with agencies in different states, including Texas and Indiana, he wanted me to specifically come on here and tell you that he has no doubt that this incident was handled very poorly by the officers involved. He also believes that there should be actions taken by those involved, including formal complaints and up to legal action if warranted.

He also wanted to express that he believes that everyday carriers like you and I are the good guys. He loves the idea of people carrying as private citizens. He knows that those of us who go through the process to pay the toll to receive our papers are not the people that LEOs need to be worried about, especially in light of the background checks we go through. He says that it's very rare that those of us duly licensed are those that would commit the crimes that would strip us of those rights. And he says that he believes that common sense interactions with the gun carrying public should be respectful between both sides. He believes that by being respectful and not an ignorant dill-hole as a LEO means that the person could and would probably be more likely to serve as back up to officers in the future, should the need arise.

He also wants to know why it seems lately that the IMPD seems to be imploding. I'd like to know too.

 

[SavageEagle]

Certainly in the feeler thread for another event we should consider giving the PD a heads up with a much larger group that is expected. However, this was basically a fairly small open carry luncheon in which we were not doing anything except meeting with like minded people. I didn't feel we had the need to call the PD for a luncheon.

Sadly, the lack of knowledge of the law is worse than I thought and either we can call or get harassed. Call me hogheaded, but I cannot bring myself to call law enforcement to tell them my luncheon plans and explain the law to the person on the other end. After all, shouldn't someone whose job is supposedly to enforce the law know something about it? What's next, do I need to keep the PD on speed dial before I head to Wal-Mart?

I only suggested it would have been a good idea because I expected more people to show up. From the looks of the thread I had expected more than 20 people and was expecting more than just a lunch. I could have had it wrong, sorry if I was.

 

[ATF Consumer]

Please relay our appreciation and thanks for stepping forward.

 

[wag1911]

I only suggested it would have been a good idea because I expected more people to show up. From the looks of the thread I had expected more than 20 people and was expecting more than just a lunch. I could have had it wrong, sorry if I was.

I was just giving you some jazz However, from Vic_Mackey's experience I might need to literally have them on speed dial!

I just thought I'd let you guys know that there's at least one former LEO who agrees with the people here who dealt with this travesty and believes there was a complete lack of knowledge of the law, not to mention the power trip, lack of tact and overzealous overreaction on the part of the LEO or LEOs involved in this issue.

Let him know we appreciate his support. He's not the only one I have heard from who is supportive.

 

[SavageEagle]

I know. No worries here.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Clearly you. Common sense tells a person that you do not walk around a crowded place with a long gun. If so you will get a response. It is not about education. It is about using your head. Even if legal people will not tolerate that kind of stuff. That is like shoving it in their faces IMO. I think it is wrong to push one believes on someone else.

While I can respect what you were doing in some ways,what you actually did was generate a call or calls. And then you get in a tiff about the response you generated.You were all wrong and used poor judgment IMO,especially with a long gun. Once again, do this type of stuff much and I think it will have the exact opposite effect of what you are hoping for.

Ok up to this point I have only read and and handed out well deserved rep.
This post requires a response.
It is obvious you have no respect for what they did. You call it wrong and try to adjust their behaviour by suggesting they could have gun rights further restricted.

So we have a MWAG call.
Officers arrive and determine nothing illegal is going on.
Officers leave and free citizens go about their business.

What part of that don't you comprehend?
Taking weapons, having citizens handle and unload weapons then cuffing someone who broke no law or ordinance is not only wrong, it is negligent.

Are you suggesting that everytime you go on a call you need to put a citizen through interrogation even though upon arriving at the scene you determine no laws were broken?
That is what it sounds like. "You caused someone to make a call, so you must endure what ever we LEOs decide"
Your attitude worries me.

 

[BloodEclipse]

People get alarmed when they see people with guns. Just the way it is and you are not going to change it for the better.

People use to get alarmed when they saw others with tattoos.
People use to get alarmed when they saw others dressed in trench coats.
People use to get alarmed when they saw others with body piercings.
People use to get alarmed when they saw others of the same sex displaying affection in public.

Many of the things that are now common place use to alarm the public.
The idea is to acclimate them so it becomes common place.
You say in your face, I say education.

 

[sj kahr k40]

I get alarmed when I see people that can't pull up their pants, but I don't call the cops on them as it's perfectly legal to dress that way

 

[Jeremiah]

Shhhh!!!!!!! Careful with that kind of talk 'round these parts, partner...
They're gonna think you're some kinda cop lover!

let me make this clear. I disdain the police force, the idea of police, and most of the things I see them do. The idea is to operate ( in general) through intimidation, uniforms look like millitary dress, the big shiny badge, and the full size gun on the hip all contribute to some make believe concept of their authority. I didn't approve of their salary from my taxes, the idea they should have been created, or the ways in which they operate. I don't like their attitudes, the power trips, or the idea that they write tickets for speeding, or possibly for being drunk on my front porch. I disdain the hypocritical, elitist way they act, it is impossible for every LEO to always follow every law themselves, nor agree with every law. They can't enforce many violations of the law as they aren't everywhere and can't see every crime being committed, which nearly makes them useless. they are a reactionary force by nature of their charge, and the misnomer that they protect us is laughable, as they normally can't intervene unless they see a crime in process ( which requires the stars to line up), and aren't normally seen doing anything but sitting at speed traps ( not all they do, but what i see, i see) .

That said I try not to stereotype. I give each officer the chance to prove they are rational, intelligent individuals. AT every LEO encounter, I volunteer very little information, I comply to the point I feel violated, and do my best to expedite the situation. i give no reason for futher inquiry, I cause no hassle, Twice in the last ten days I have been pulled over, and both times my demeanor, paired with the discretion of a West lafayette LEO, and a state trooper got me off with verbal warnings.

When I deal with police, I suppress my preconceived notions, and allow the officers to prove what they are, if they prove rational I take it to heart, if they prove to be hung out on hung up on arbitration, or inconsequential infractions that simply generate revenue for the department, I keep that in mind as well.

Generally the men and women I know and respect that are also police officers, I associate with them as people, not LEO's. Ive meet politicians, governors, deans of colleges, etc. I referer to people as people and ignore the
title. At the end of the day everybody is a person, its what they do that matters, the ideas they hold on to, and views they espouse that I judge them on.

 

[patience0830]

read 50

Then jumped to the end. Lots of passion about this issue for sure.

Now where did I put my perfect world? I do miss it so!
Hope everyone had a good election day. Listening to Glen Beck gloat this morning was pretty funny.

 

[Hammerhead]

ATF, I'm sure he'd say you're welcome. While I disagree with some of his ideas about carry (oc is ok, cc is better; informing helps but sees it's situational) he's generally a good guy, and was a great LEO.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I disagree. That is not the time and place to be defiant. That is best handled at a later time and with the proper people. .

Your word choices are telling.

 

[Jeremiah]

I get alarmed when I see people that can't pull up their pants, but I don't call the cops on them as it's perfectly legal to dress that way

Actually some places it isn't

http://soithappens.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/crackdown-on-indecency.png?w=454&h=418

 

[Cru]

To insert facts to this situation, I am 90% sure there was no MWAG call. I think the officers saw IM themselves and came over. That's how I was told the story by IM himself. He said "when I was walking in, the officer saw me and locked eyes immediately"

 

[sj kahr k40]

To insert facts to this situation, I am 90% sure there was no MWAG call. I think the officers saw IM themselves and came over. That's how I was told the story by IM himself. He said "when I was walking in, the officer saw me and locked eyes immediately"

I wonder if their is a report on the incident and if it would be linked to a specific 911 call

 

[CorvetteTom]

You can bet the names of all 'transgressors' are now on file.