Ignoring gender?

[AA&E]

I did not advise lifestyles. I advised people.

And to answer your question, yes. Did I stutter?

I think he makes a valid point. Your safezones likely wouldn't exist if not for the desire to make LGBT individuals feel comfortable, and it is not coincidental that the LGBT advisor became the coordinator of the safezone.... suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.

 

[AA&E]

On one of the earlier pages he called transgender people narcissists. He seems to be grouping them in the same category as these otherkin. That is what I'm referring to.

I didn't call transgender people narcissists. Speaking primarilly of the "gender fluid, this is the gender I identify with today" sorts of people.

He did the same thing to me earlier in the thread.. I see a trend.

 

[AA&E]

What cripples people is having their deep-seated sense of self belittled by lesser minds.

When you have to resort to insults it is usually because your argument is lacking substance...

 

[AA&E]

Anyone different than you is a pedophile. Got it

WTF?

 

[AA&E]

A young penis-haver wanting to be a Girl Scout equates to a pedophile. Hmmm. Not in any dictionary in my house. Where are you getting your dictionaries?

Geez, you people are freaking thick headed. He never said that. He crossed your thought process of acceptance over to another group.. just letting them be what they are...

you probably knew that didn't stop you from contorting his words...

 

[oldpink]

WTF?

And with the rampant straw man production, they wonder why others choose to ridicule right back?

 

[AA&E]

Real. Objective. Harm.

Please cite any real, objective harm done to anyone by allowing a child born male to behave as a girl throughout her formative years, complete with full and equal participation in the GSUSA.

Allowing a child to make a decision he or she isn't mentally mature enough to make..

seems someone around here made a similar argument in regards to the subject at hand.

 

[AA&E]

Since its a very simple quesiton.... is it right or wrong for a person with a gender identity issue to be who they believe they are? But since its not your morals that are dictating your opinion, and not affecting you in any way, you should have no problem with it....let your higher authority "deal" with "them"

FWIW..


I think an adult individual should be allowed to live his/her life however they choose without interference from anyone unless they are interfering with someone elses life, liberty, etc.

That said, the current liberal environment in the work place regarding people of this persuasion creates a hostile work environment in which any perceived slight is automatically a discrimination issue. Some people have a problem with the suggestion God got it wrong and will never be comfortable with that suggestion. But if they are professional and conduct themselves in a manner conducive to getting the job done that should be well enough. My experience, every perceived slight was immediately reported as an incident of discrimination... she said "how is your day going" at the water fountain and you didn't respond. She'd get offended and run crying to HR. There are people that don't bring their sexual identity issues to work that I don't like nor want to talk to... why should this person be treated any different?

 

[AA&E]

It very likely has something to do with the fact that many men have wive's and daughters. Men are psychologically programmed as "protectors"; protectors of their family, protectors of their home, protectors of everything around them (in general). I can tell you I'd happily and willingly lay down my life to protect my family from harm, whether it be financial, physical, or psychological if laying down my life is what it would take. I would imagine that the great deal of consternation comes from the fact that, even if "experts claim" a transgender individual is not a risk to a woman, the man, the protector, still perceives it as a threat. Why would he perceive that as a threat? What is the threat? Most of it is likely upbringing and societal influence and it will take generations to change. That being said, I feel there are legitimate threats. A parent should have the right to determine when the sex talk is appropriate and until that time we don't expose our children to things that would necessitate an advancement of that time window. Yet a transgender person in a locker-room setting etc could necessitate that. What harm could come from that? I'm no mental health expert so I can't say for certain, but it could likely be the fact that the girl isn't ready to face those facts of life. For the same reason we don't drive and vote until a certain age, our brains take time to mature to a certain point of truly understanding things like this. Another threat could be the mentally unstable person that wants to be transgender for nefarious purposes. Yes, it's exceedingly rare, but it's not out of the realm of possibility; society has shown us that the length at which mentally ill people will go to fulfill their desires has no bounds. Remember the guy that crawled into the pit of the outhouse at a state/local park a while ago just to get a peek at the bottom side of women? Don't tell me it's not possible for a man to pose as transgender and use the women's lockerroom for nefarious purposes.

The very same way you say that some people are "programmed" differently, despite being in the wrong body, many individuals are programmed with the primal instincts, like that of the male protector. Just like it's the very nature of a person "programmed" to be a woman, but living in a man's body, it's my very instinct to say, "I don't want that person around my wife/daughter because harm could possibly result from it." Thus, this issue is born and the answer is a VERY delicate balancing act that must be carefully weighed depending on MANY variables.

I don't know what the solution is; I don't know if this LGBT thing is a mental illness, people being led astray, or if it's really true that a person can be born into the wrong body; I'm not here to debate that. I can only attest to what my feelings/thoughts are. I can tell you that my rights don't trump another person's rights, like theirs don't trump mine. They must work in conjunction. The unfortunate thing about this is that isn't good enough for most people in the LGBT community; they want absolute superiority of their rights over my rights.

Yes, I realize I'm in over my head on the background knowledge of the mental illness issues and how these things effect a child's brain, I'm simply throwing out a possible answer to your question.

I can tell you what would make me more comfortable as the protector of my daughter/wife as this movement continues to grow. Private bathrooms, locker-rooms, etc for all individuals that don't have matching sexual orientation/born-gender would completely circumvent the issues of public restrooms/changing/showering etc. That doesn't solve the other issues though, and I'm not sure that would ever happen because the LGBT community would have an out-cry about how their right to just feel like a normal women/man etc is being trampled (when in fact they will never truly be "normal"). Now I don't say that with any dislike, hate, or with an offensive intention, it is simply my feelings, I have a right to have and express my feelings. That being said, I have friends in the LGBT community and I love/respect them just as much as any other person. I simply disagree with their stance on many issues. That is what makes us all individuals...

Great post.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

People have always been afraid of things that they don't understand.

 

[churchmouse]

People have always been afraid of things that they don't understand.

Exactly.
It is very hard to get my head wrapped around some of the things discussed in this thread. Boys wanting to be girls/girls wanting to be boys.......to a simple person these things are whack.
Bruce Genner is really stirring the pot with his gender issues. I seriously could give a hoot what Bruce does but it is shoved in my face daily. That bothers me. Not sure why but it does. Do live your life but do live it privately. Makes my head hurt.

I have more than a few friends that live alternate life styles. I take no issue in their choices. They are not seeking any glory or special treatment for their choices and yes, they admit it is a choice.
That said.........No, I do not want any male in any form around my G-daughters in a public restroom. That would not end well for them. It is that protection thing Country boy mentioned.

 

[Snapdragon]

I appreciate the more thoughtful and constructive comments later in this thread, no matter what "side" they are coming from.

I get the idea of protecting girls from the males, but for a child or adult who truly is a "girl in a boy's body", the male part is, at best, an inconvenience, and at worst, a thing to be hidden and despised. It is no threat to the other girls. Then I suppose the issue becomes sorting out the imposters. I honestly can't see a boy pretending to be a girl just so he can score with a girl scout.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I get the idea of protecting girls from the males...

And males from women.

I honestly can't see a boy pretending to be a girl just so he can score with a girl scout.

Girl scout, maybe not. But the bathroom/locker room issue that arose recently with Planet Fitness shows it's an issue that people aren't comfortable with. A sick guy or girl can claim to feel like a man/woman, and enter the Planet Fitness locker room of their choice. Who is the onus on to prove what he/she says is true?

Would anyone dare doubt him or her, for fear of "discrimination"?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Exactly.
It is very hard to get my head wrapped around some of the things discussed in this thread. Boys wanting to be girls/girls wanting to be boys.......to a simple person these things are whack.
Bruce Genner is really stirring the pot with his gender issues. I seriously could give a hoot what Bruce does but it is shoved in my face daily. That bothers me. Not sure why but it does. Do live your life but do live it privately. Makes my head hurt.

I have more than a few friends that live alternate life styles. I take no issue in their choices. They are not seeking any glory or special treatment for their choices and yes, they admit it is a choice.
That said.........No, I do not want any male in any form around my G-daughters in a public restroom. That would not end well for them. It is that protection thing Country boy mentioned.

Most people I know don't care what you do or what you call yourself or how you identify yourself. We don't care but we may have opinions. Nobody has the right to force their opinions on anybody else. "Some redneck" doesn't have the right to beat up somebody that dresses weird or claims to be some alternative gender. Nobody claiming an alternative gender has the right to force other people to accept and recognize them as they see themselves. Tolerance isn't forcing everybody into one, single, hive-mind. Tolerance is letting rednecks be rednecks and letting non-traditional-gender folks be what they be and leaving each other the heck alone. Intolerance is just as much boycotting and shutting down a baker that doesn't want to bake a homosexual wedding cake or brow-beating and isolating a person that scoffs at alternative-gender-identifications as it is the redneck calling the cross-dresser names.

This, just like the proselytizing homosexual normalizing movement of the last 10-20 years isn't so much about treating people with respect and humanity as it is about condemning and shutting down all those that hold traditional beliefs and values.

 

[Dead Duck]

I miss the good old days when you didn't need to check...
Now even that isn't foolproof.

[video=youtube;ecxh4QHWmqg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecxh4QHWmqg[/video]

 

[CountryBoy19]

I get the idea of protecting girls from the males, but for a child or adult who truly is a "girl in a boy's body", the male part is, at best, an inconvenience, and at worst, a thing to be hidden and despised. It is no threat to the other girls.

It may not be a "physical" threat, per se, but it is still a threat. A threat to the wishes and desires of how a parents wants to approach the sexuality, and sex talks with their child. A threat to the psychological well-being of that child. Just because there is no physical threat doesn't mean there is no threat. Otherwise, certainly we can just let schools have co-ed locker-rooms and just have a chaperone to ensure no physical contact occurs between males and females? Or is there a chance that seeing such a thing could impact the mental state of a girl (or boy, not trying to make this a sexually one-sided discussion) and thus they should be shielded from it?

Then I suppose the issue becomes sorting out the imposters. I honestly can't see a boy pretending to be a girl just so he can score with a girl scout.

I couldn't see a grown man crawling into the pit of a outhouse style bathroom to catch a peek at women either, but it happened, and it wouldn't surprise me that a boy would also do something with such intentions. Quick search showed this one: Perp In Deep Doo-doo. Again. | The Smoking Gun but that isn't the incident I've been referring to; the incident I read here on INGO involved a mother and daughter that discovered the man. Although rare, this has happened more than once. People are sick, sick people will stop at nothing to "get their fix". Even if the boy in Girl Scouts is young and innocent, and it seems safe, where do you draw the line on gender "mixing" issues? At what age is it no longer harmless and then it becomes possible to expose women/girls to sexual predators? Girl scouts, IIRC, go up into the teen years. While it may be harmless enough to allow an 8 y.o. boy into girl scouts, what about a 14 y.o. boy? How do you weed out the genuine from the predators, from the confused, from curious?

Most people I know don't care what you do or what you call yourself or how you identify yourself. We don't care but we may have opinions. Nobody has the right to force their opinions on anybody else. "Some redneck" doesn't have the right to beat up somebody that dresses weird or claims to be some alternative gender. Nobody claiming an alternative gender has the right to force other people to accept and recognize them as they see themselves. Tolerance isn't forcing everybody into one, single, hive-mind. Tolerance is letting rednecks be rednecks and letting non-traditional-gender folks be what they be and leaving each other the heck alone. Intolerance is just as much boycotting and shutting down a baker that doesn't want to bake a homosexual wedding cake or brow-beating and isolating a person that scoffs at alternative-gender-identifications as it is the redneck calling the cross-dresser names.

This, just like the proselytizing homosexual normalizing movement of the last 10-20 years isn't so much about treating people with respect and humanity as it is about condemning and shutting down all those that hold traditional beliefs and values.

Awe man, you had to bring rednecks into this... what did my people ever do to you???

Lol

 

[Birds Away]

Where does one person's rights end and another's begin? Why do the rights of a biologically male individual who identifies as female supersede the rights of a female who does not wish to be forced to use a mixed gender restroom? I feel sorry for people whose identity does not match their biological gender. I just wonder why the rights of the minority always seem to be more important than the rights of the majority. I don't want anyone to have to be forced into uncomfortable situations. What's the answer?

 

[Dead Duck]

Where does one person's rights end and another's begin? Why do the rights of a biologically male individual who identifies as female supersede the rights of a female who does not wish to be forced to use a mixed gender restroom? I feel sorry for people whose identity does not match their biological gender. I just wonder why the rights of the minority always seem to be more important than the rights of the majority. I don't want anyone to have to be forced into uncomfortable situations. What's the answer?

 

[AA&E]

Where does one person's rights end and another's begin? Why do the rights of a biologically male individual who identifies as female supersede the rights of a female who does not wish to be forced to use a mixed gender restroom? I feel sorry for people whose identity does not match their biological gender. I just wonder why the rights of the minority always seem to be more important than the rights of the majority. I don't want anyone to have to be forced into uncomfortable situations. What's the answer?

Well said. That is exactly the point. Everyone else is supposed to bend to the will of the minority.. that is fairness in their eyes.

 

[17 squirrel]

Quote Originally Posted by Snapdragon View Post
I did not advise lifestyles. I advised people.

And to answer your question, yes. Did I stutter?

I think he makes a valid point. Your safezones likely wouldn't exist if not for the desire to make LGBT individuals feel comfortable, and it is not coincidental that the LGBT advisor became the coordinator of the safezone.... suggesting otherwise is disingenuous.

That's what some people do when you catch them telling a fib.