If your wife was raped, would you make her have the baby?

[WestSider]

No, its not. Its nuance, a concept evidently lost to many folks these days...

I'm a huge proponent of personal responsibility. To me, an abortion is an abdication of the responsibility one assumes when they have sexual activity. Sex is a voluntary act between two consenting parties, and sex can have consequences...such as pregnancy. IMO, if you engage in sexual activity you accept the responsibility and consequences of that act. I (perhaps traditionally) view that responsibility as a woman carrying the child to term, and the man financially providing for her and his unborn child during that time.

My opinion is that abortion is an "easy way out" of that responsibility for both parties.

In the event of sexual assault, I don't believe the woman has responsibility for conception because she was attacked and inseminated against her will.

After being terrorized and physically assaulted in the most vulnerable way, how could any rational person expect, no, DEMAND a traumatized woman carry a child conceived during rape to term?

I wouldn't expect that of my wife or daughter, or of anybody else's wife or daughter.

I would *hope* a rape victim would choose to carry to term, but I fully understand a decision to terminate in that particular instance.

Again, nuance...

It's not nuance and I think you're missing the point.

Yes, rape is horrible.
Yes, it is not the fault of the woman who got raped.
But, it's not the fault of the unborn child either.

The point he is trying to make is it's either a life or it isn't. Is it worse to have a woman carry a child to term from a rape or to terminate the life of an innocent person? I say the latter is worse.

People who say they are pro-life but make this exception are not pro-life, they are pro-choice. Mitt Romney falls into this category.

 

[lashicoN]

If you believe that abortion is murder and you also believe that an exception should be made in the case of rape, you are saying that killing someone who was born from a rape is justifiable homicide.

Yes, I do, anyway. Justifiable, in my opinion, to relieve the rape victim of some potential anguish. Her rights shouldn't be canceled out because someone forced a baby in her.

They aren't making the choice for them, they are making the choice for someone else who has no voice. That is why people are pro-life, because they believe that people shouldn't be allowed to execute a death sentence on another life, they are free to kill themselves if they want.

Really? In what era of human history has the death sentence not been allowed?

I'm not debating the term "murder" vs "homicide", you are. To me it makes no difference, it is morally wrong either way you want to term it. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that.

But homicide isn't always morally wrong. Sometimes, people need to be killed. Do you oppose the death penalty for murderers and/or rapists? Some self defense results in the death of an attacker. I don't see these as bad things.

I'm not saying it's not tragic, but again, the circumstance does not change WHAT it is. Either it's a baby or it's not.

Another way: If you have a brown paper bag that contains a baseball, that baseball does not magically morph into something else if you took the bag yourself, was forced to carry the bag at gun point, or was asked by a partner to hold the bag.

Sure the ball can morph, depending on who is looking at it and what it means to them, it's called perspective. What if that exact baseball was used to bash in the face of all your friends and family members? Every time you look at it, you relive the tragedy and it causes all kinds of mental anguish.

To me, it is just a baseball that looks like it landed in a hot dog with ketchup. To you, it's the weapon that was used to destroy your family, stained with their blood.

 

[bobzilla]

I get the whole Eutopia... people should be responsible talk... but it isn't realistic. I also get the "God says so talk"...

However, statistics show there are 1.3 million abortions a year in the USA... Imagine the toll on our social programs that we all on here hate so much... Imagine the exponential growth of our population and its toll on our economy.

Remove abortion and eventually we turn into India... Personally I'd rather not.

aGREE wholeheartedly. Many women regret their children, and those weren't forced on them with a rape.

 

[Mosinguy]

You guys are telling me you'd want to have a rape baby and most likely keep it? What a great way to traumatize someone: get raped, get pregnant as a result, carry a baby who is not your husband's for 9 months, and then care for it for years after.

I guess if I decide I want a wife, she wouldn't be in a situation or area where she could possibly be raped. In fact, my future wife would carry a firearm, be proficiently trained with it, and have very good situational awareness. INGO got way weird after the election. What the ****. I'm actually surprised there isn't a damn poll on this.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Wow.. forget what I said several pages ago about 'civilized discussion'

I'm still reading though LOL

 

[LEaSH]

HA HA HA

whaaa?

(rape is not funny, btw)

 

[WestSider]

Yes, I do, anyway. Justifiable, in my opinion, to relieve the rape victim of some potential anguish. Her rights shouldn't be canceled out because someone forced a baby in her.

Really? In what era of human history has the death sentence not been allowed?

But homicide isn't always morally wrong. Sometimes, people need to be killed. Do you oppose the death penalty for murderers and/or rapists? Some self defense results in the death of an attacker. I don't see these as bad things.

Sure the ball can morph, depending on who is looking at it and what it means to them, it's called perspective. What if that exact baseball was used to bash in the face of all your friends and family members? Every time you look at it, you relive the tragedy and it causes all kinds of mental anguish.

To me, it is just a baseball that looks like it landed in a hot dog with ketchup. To you, it's the weapon that was used to destroy your family, stained with their blood.

You are saying that because the woman had something bad happen to her, that gives her the right to be judge and jury to condemn someone to death.

As for your other comment, comparing criminals and murderers to unborn children in regard to who "needs to be killed" is about as off the wall argument I've heard, I can't even go there.

 

[lashicoN]

I guess if I decide I want a wife, she wouldn't be in a situation or area where she could possibly be raped.

Huh...that sounds interesting. What area is that? Leashed to her poll in the fenced-in back yard?

 

[Bunnykid68]

Huh...that sounds interesting. What area is that? Leashed to her poll in the fenced-in back yard?

To the stove of course

 

[bobzilla]

Huh...that sounds interesting. What area is that? Leashed to her poll in the fenced-in back yard?

You can't leave blow up dolls outside inthe weather.

 

[Bunnykid68]

You can't leave blow up dolls outside inthe weather.

What if you used Armour All on them?

 

[lashicoN]

You are saying that because the woman had something bad happen to her, that gives her the right to be judge and jury to condemn someone to death.

Correct. That is what I'm saying. Ever wander into the carry issues and self defense section? If a woman is being raped (something bad happening to her) and she has the means to defend herself, I think she has the right to be judge and jury, and has the right to condemn her attacker to death.

I also believe a life that was forced into a woman, against her will, by a rapist has no right to exist in the first place, since that life is a result of a heinous, forceful act and if the victim deems that she cannot mentally handle carrying the baby, it should be her choice to end that life, and save hers.

 

[WestSider]

Correct. That is what I'm saying. Ever wander into the carry issues and self defense section? If a woman is being raped (something bad happening to her) and she has the means to defend herself, I think she has the right to be judge and jury, and has the right to condemn her attacker to death.

I also believe a life that was forced into a woman, against her will, by a rapist has no right to exist in the first place, since that life is a result of a heinous, forceful act and if the victim deems that she cannot mentally handle carrying the baby, it should be her choice to end that life, and save hers.

You are blurring 2 completely different issues together. I'm not talking about carry issues and self defense..... We are talking about the life of the child here, not the perp. Try and follow.

Now, let's follow your logic to conclusion here. Let's say she is raped but decides to have the baby anyway. At this point, she deems she cannot mentally handle caring for this child. According to your logic, since she can't handle it, she can throw her baby over a bridge because the baby wasn't her fault to start with and it's now causing her stress.

You see, you can't differentiate the two. I go back to my original comment which is it's either a life or it isn't.

 

[indiucky]

Yes pro choice, not pro abortion. As much as freedom is talked about on here, why can't people be FREE to make their own CHOICE.

Condoms, hold off until you can afford a child, birth control pills, spermicide, the pull out (not always succesful but looks cool), etc....How many choices does one need?

 

[marinemom]

I am guessing that most of you do not know anyone that has actually been raped and had the baby because of some of the insanity some of you are speaking.

This scenario happened to my sis in law almost 13 years ago. She chose to keep the baby and she is now happily married with 2 other children. I couldn't imagine our family without my nephew. We don't look at him and see a horrible creature. We look at him and see a beautiful, amazing young man.

Rape is horrible. I can't even imagine it. But neither can I imagine ending an innocent life....I am guessing not many of you know anyone who lives with the regret of an abortion. I have had the opportunity to friend a gal that tells her story to many teens hoping to convince them to wait on having sex. After hearing her story, I think that an abortion would haunt me more than living with an unplanned child even from rape.

Just in case you are wondering, my husband approves this decision!

 

[WestSider]

I am guessing that most of you do not know anyone that has actually been raped and had the baby because of some of the insanity some of you are speaking.

This scenario happened to my sis in law almost 13 years ago. She chose to keep the baby and she is now happily married with 2 other children. I couldn't imagine our family without my nephew. We don't look at him and see a horrible creature. We look at him and see a beautiful, amazing young man.

Rape is horrible. I can't even imagine it. But neither can I imagine ending an innocent life....I am guessing not many of you know anyone who lives with the regret of an abortion. I have had the opportunity to friend a gal that tells her story to many teens hoping to convince them to wait on having sex. After hearing her story, I think that an abortion would haunt me more than living with an unplanned child even from rape.

Just in case you are wondering, my husband approves this decision!

Great insight!

Glad to hear a happy ending to that story.

 

[lashicoN]

You are blurring 2 completely different issues together. I'm not talking about carry issues and self defense..... We are talking about the life of the child here, not the perp. Try and follow.

Now, let's follow your logic to conclusion here. Let's say she is raped but decides to have the baby anyway. At this point, she deems she cannot mentally handle caring for this child. According to your logic, since she can't handle it, she can throw her baby over a bridge because the baby wasn't her fault to start with and it's now causing her stress.

You see, you can't differentiate the two. I go back to my original comment which is it's either a life or it isn't.

Yeah, I'm not having any problems following you, WestSider. You've made some general statements, and I have generally responded to them. If you want to keep the discussion solely to the life of children, then stay there, don't go wandering off on tangents of whether a woman has the right to be judge and jury in a situation where something wrong happened to her.

You didn't follow my logic. Once she decided she can handle the pregnancy, and allows a human being to emerge into the actual world as its own singular life, she no longer has the right to decide not to have the baby, because she already had the baby, according to your scenario.

What the two (defending herself from a rapist and aborting a baby forced inside her) things have in common is that I believe the woman has the right to be in charge of her own body, fate, and life.

 

[WestSider]

Yeah, I'm not having any problems following you, WestSider. You've made some general statements, and I have generally responded to them. If you want to keep the discussion solely to the life of children, then stay there, don't go wandering off on tangents of whether a woman has the right to be judge and jury in a situation where something wrong happened to her.

You didn't follow my logic. Once she decided she can handle the pregnancy, and allows a human being to emerge into the actual world as its own singular life, she no longer has the right to decide not to have the baby, because she already had the baby, according to your scenario.

What the two (defending herself from a rapist and aborting a baby forced inside her) things have in common is that I believe the woman has the right to be in charge of her own body, fate, and life.

Judge and jury comment was in regard to terminating the life of the child, not defending herself against the attacker. I apologize if I didn't make this clear. Of course she has the right to defend herself against her attacker.

The obvious distinction here is that you believe that until a child is born it is not a life, whereas I believe it is a precious life inside the womb. Everything else is pointless to debate if we can't agree on that issue.

 

[lashicoN]

I am guessing that most of you do not know anyone that has actually been raped and had the baby because of some of the insanity some of you are speaking.

That's wonderful that you would decide to go ahead and not end a life. But, do you believe this decision should be legislated for you, one way or the other? Remember, that just because today (not in reality) someone is forcing you to have the baby, doesn't mean that that same power cannot be used one day to force people to NOT have the baby.

I'm more comfortable leaving this decision to each individual, instead of being controlled by other people, one way or the other.

 

[lashicoN]

The obvious distinction here is that you believe that until a child is born it is not a life...

Incorrect. But I'll still agree to disagree overall.