How do i carry while swimming? I had a scare!

[IndySSD]

The reality of life can be hard for some people to live with. Some blindly stumble along and are shocked when bad things happen to them, some run for the indoors when the street lights come on, others hide at home. Some choose to LIVE and be able to defend themseleves.



That wasn't a 1% moment like you describe. He chose to be unarmed, he could have carried.

I have a keltec p32 just for such occasions. I carry s&b military contract sealed FMJs in it. Taken it swimming in my zippered swim trunk pocket many a times. After each swim I swap out my ammo and shoot them at the range. Never had a FTF even after being in the water all day. Dry it off (air compressor or blow dryer to blow it out, you could also use gun scrubber but usually when I swim I'm on vacation and the hotel blow dryer works like a charm) and clean/oil it at the end of the day and it'll be no worse for wear.

When I first started swimming with it I'd put it in a ziplock bag, but the bag always leaked/ripped. I gave up on the bag.

If a person wants be able to defend themselves with a firearm 24/7 they buy the proper equipment. This means more than one holster and more than one gun.

The OP's experience is PROOF POSITIVE that unless you carry 24/7/365 you won't have it when you need it. I'm glad he didn't need it and it'll probably be the last time he doesn't have a gun on him. There is a learning lesson here you are missing.

Sigh.... You must spread some rep around before giving it to Prometheus again.

 

[USMC_0311]

Sometimes I wonder how many people with guns are actually just sheep who "feel safer" knowing they OWN a handgun and never plan on using it.

I bet this is a big number. How many times I have been to a freinds or family house and the subject comes up. The guns are locked away unloaded and have been for years.

I had an uncle who bought his first handgun after obama got elected. Told me about it a few weeks ago when we were visiting. Still NIB with tags 1 box of ammo. No loaded mags (keltec .380) no extra mags. He keept it in the closet, up in the attic. (He will be shooting it this weekend )

 

[IndySSD]

I bet this is a big number. How many times I have been to a freinds or family house and the subject comes up. The guns are locked away unloaded and have been for years.

I had an uncle who bought his first handgun after obama got elected. Told me about it a few weeks ago when we were visiting. Still NIB with tags 1 box of ammo. No loaded mags (keltec .380) no extra mags. He keept it in the closet, up in the attic. (He will be shooting it this weekend )

I'd +rep you for getting your Uncle to elevate his personal responsibility but

You must spread some Reputation around before giving to USMC_0311 again.

We need more armed, trained, responsible citizens in our communities. Good to know you're helping people head in the right direction USMC_0311!

 

[finity]

I'm thinking that shooting out their tires would have been my option had a gun been at hand and holding them until the authorities arrived. Doing this could however have the consequence of escalated into a shootout. You need to be prepared and have adequate cover.



That's the reaction folks with sticky fingers count on, and why they continue to abstain from working for a living......perhaps I am a bit too brazen, but I'll be damned if someone is going to walk away with things I have worked hard for if I have a reasonable opportunity to stop it. <if the opportunity does not exist, as in his case, then I think he did the reasonable thing>

I'm thinking that if you take the actions described in your post abve you would be opening yourself up for some pretty serious criminal charges.

IN law only allows deadly force in very narrowly defined situations. If you haven't read the law I would encourage you to do so before you find yourself doing possible prison time. Here is the law:

Indiana Code 35-41-3

You'll notice that DEADLY FORCE is only allowed when you face the risk of serious bodily injury (which is also further defined in the law - Indiana Code 35-41-1 - scroll to section 25), or a forcible felony (which is also defined in the previous law). You can also use deadly force to prevent someone from breaking into or attacking your home, or stealing your car ONLY IF YOU ARE IN IT at the time.

THAT'S IT. In situations other than those specifically listed you can't use deadly force. You can use REASONABLE FORCE (which includes the POINTING OF YOUR GUN AT THEM - Indiana Code 35-47-4 - section 3) to prevent someone from stealing your stuff but as soon as you go from pointing it to firing it in their direction (to "shoot out their tires") you have moved into the deadly force arena. If they are threatening you directly or a third person YOU CAN'T KILL THEM no matter how much you think they deserve it.

but you can be 100% on guard.

No you can't. You may think you are but there are times when you're going to be distracted. Anybody that uses "100%" isn't living in reality.

You seem to be content with going unarmed

That's not what I said. I said I'm not going to stop living my life by not going places I want to go just because I can't carry my gun 24/7/365.

calling people parnoid because they choose not too lacks any tact or class.

I didn't say that people who carry are paranoid. I SUGGESTED people who feel that they have to carry 24/7/365 because of some POSSIBLE threat MAY be considered by some as paranoid.

I would defiantly have a weapon on me at night at the lake. Anytime you are in a secluded or unpopulated area there is a chance you will run into some sort of predator.

I agree. Having a gun available is prudent in most situations. But sometimes you just can't.

I completely disagree that being prepared for trouble makes you paranoid.

Again, people are taking the comment in black & white. I never said being prepared was being paranoid. I said carrying 24/7/365 was being paranoid. There's a BIG difference. If you can't see that then there's not a lot to be said to convince you otherwise.

For those who don't think it's necessary to ensure your family's safety 100% of the time, you must not value the safety of your family as much as I do.

Oh, come on. Now you're claiming I don't love my kids as much as you do yours?

Again, do you let your kids ride in a car? Traffic accidents are THE biggest cause of accidental death in this country & second highest cause of accidental death in young kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Do you let them go swimming? Drownings are THE biggest causes of accidental death in kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Do you live in a house that has ANY flammable materials in them AT AL? Fires are the 4th leading cause of death in kids. I guess you don't llove your kids.

I hope you're not so obtuse that you can't see where I'm going with this.

I love my kids enough to not teach them that danger is lurking around every corner ready to snuff their lives out in instant I also don't teach them that they should fear doing ANYTHING because they could die. If I did that then my kids could grow up with a serious mental health problem.

I teach them to be aware of their surroundings, don't take unecessary risks & be as prepared as possible. But I also temper that with common sense. I also teach them to not be so AFRAID OF DEATH OR HARM that they never live.

Those of you who are saying things like "Oh, it turned out fine"

It did.

and "99% of the time you're OK without your firearm"

You will.

I would say you are looking at this the wrong way. What if these guys had intended to harm his family instead of simply taking "things". At the time he didn't KNOW they weren't going to harm his family

No he didn't. He also didn't KNOW that they were'nt going to ge struck by lightning or get bit by a mosquito carrying the West Nile virus or even suffer a cramp while swimming & drown.

and yet he was unable to reach his firearm in that scenario.

And yet he wasn't able to control the weather, kill all mosquitos or stop a fatal cramp. But he took his family to the lake & anticipated having a good time in spite of those risks.

Sometimes I wonder how many people with guns are actually just sheep who "feel safer" knowing they OWN a handgun and never plan on using it.

And sometimes I wonder how many people who own guns "feel safer" knowing they own a gun & plan on using it at the SLIGHTEST hint of trouble because it is some sort of magic talisman that will ward away ANY risk whatsoever.

People sure like to throw around the word "sheep" a lot. Just because I don't live in CONSTANT fear of death doesn't mean I'm a sheep. "Sheep" implies that one doesn't think for themselves & just follows the crowd. I don't think I could be reasonably accused of that.

 

[LPMan59]

 

[SSGSAD]

SSD, got him for ya !!!!!

 

[USMC_0311]

No you can't. You may think you are but there are times when you're going to be distracted. Anybody that uses "100%" isn't living in reality.

Its a mind set that takes some people longer to understand. Some need to learn the hard way. You get caught with your pants down and live, I say your lucky but take the opportunity to learn from it.



That's not what I said. I said I'm not going to stop living my life by not going places I want to go just because I can't carry my gun 24/7/365.

If you are willing to not carry to do something that you just have to do because you feel you are missing out if you don't then yes you are content with going unarmed when it fits your wants. Pretty simple concept to grasp. I carry every where except court houses and airports. What am I missing out on?


I didn't say that people who carry are paranoid. I SUGGESTED people who feel that they have to carry 24/7/365 because of some POSSIBLE threat MAY be considered by some as paranoid.

Ok I misunderstood but the suggestion was still there. This what you said "I think that attitudes like these are why we get branded as paranoid gun nuts." So you branded us a paranoid gun nuts.



I agree. Having a gun available is prudent in most situations. But sometimes you just can't.

What times are you referring too schools, court houses, or airports?
Swimming alone at night on a deserted beach is not one of those times you just can't.



Again, people are taking the comment in black & white. I never said being prepared was being paranoid. I said carrying 24/7/365 was being paranoid. There's a BIG difference. If you can't see that then there's not a lot to be said to convince you otherwise.

You want convince me that carrying 24/7/365 is being parnoid. Just because I am parnoid doesn't make me wrong.


Again, do you let your kids ride in a car? Traffic accidents are THE biggest cause of accidental death in this country & second highest cause of accidental death in young kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Now I all ready rebuked your driving comparison.
"I drive with risk but not unprepared. I use seat belt, practice defensive driving, obey the traffic laws, and watch out for the idiots. 100% safe? No, but I gave my self the best chance to come home safely by being prepared. "



Do you let them go swimming? Drownings are THE biggest causes of accidental death in kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Again poor example because we can take precautions to make swimming safer.

Do you live in a house that has ANY flammable materials in them AT AL? Fires are the 4th leading cause of death in kids. I guess you don't llove your kids.

Fire Extinguishers?

People sure like to throw around the word "sheep" a lot. Just because I don't live in CONSTANT fear of death doesn't mean I'm a sheep. "Sheep" implies that one doesn't think for themselves & just follows the crowd. I don't think I could be reasonably accused of that.

The description in red is more like a zombie.
Maybe not reasonably but you are painting a picture.

I don't live in constant fear of death because I carry 24/7/365.

 

[IndySSD]

THAT'S IT. In situations other than those specifically listed you can't use deadly force. You can use REASONABLE FORCE (which includes the POINTING OF YOUR GUN AT THEM - Indiana Code 35-47-4 - section 3) to prevent someone from stealing your stuff but as soon as you go from pointing it to firing it in their direction (to "shoot out their tires") you have moved into the deadly force arena. If they are threatening you directly or a third person YOU CAN'T KILL THEM no matter how much you think they deserve it.


Which is exactly why I said I would be giving a description of the people and vehicle to the 911 operator and not shooting the tires out like the person you quoted.


No you can't. You may think you are but there are times when you're going to be distracted. Anybody that uses "100%" isn't living in reality.

Well..... while very few things in life are 100%, I think anyone who tries to live in the difference between whats possible and 100% are less likely to have problems than people who don't attempt to protect themselves 100% of the time.

That's not what I said. I said I'm not going to stop living my life by not going places I want to go just because I can't carry my gun 24/7/365.

That's your personal choice. I make that choice as well on very rare occasions and I'm constantly on edge the entire time. Doesn't mean that I'm not living my life because I choose to vacation in Florida instead of Illinois.

I didn't say that people who carry are paranoid. I SUGGESTED people who feel that they have to carry 24/7/365 because of some POSSIBLE threat MAY be considered by some as paranoid.

I strongly advocate "Prudent Paranoia". Meaning there are enough things that ARE designed to negatively impact the unaware to warrant people elevating their natural level of awareness.

I agree. Having a gun available is prudent in most situations. But sometimes you just can't.

I feel as though the OP's situation had viable ways to carry. If you don't think keeping a firearm with you while enjoying outdoors recreational activity's is prudent.... then I would ask you "What situation IS it prudent to have a gun available?" Whenever it is convenient for you?

Seriously if you stop carrying in some places, why bother carrying in any places? Do you think predators don't realize that people at beaches are vulnerable? Just google "Beach Robberies" if you have any doubts about criminals taking advantage of folks who think carrying a firearm at the beach isn't prudent.



Again, people are taking the comment in black & white. I never said being prepared was being paranoid. I said carrying 24/7/365 was being paranoid. There's a BIG difference. If you can't see that then there's not a lot to be said to convince you otherwise.

You're right. I'm prepared to be called names by people who don't understand my need to be as prepared as I can possibly be. So call me paranoid all you want. Maybe you'd be paranoid too if you had family members who have been abducted before.

Truth is I don't care what people call me and I won't let it affect how I ensure my family's safety. Period. I've seen many bad things happen to good people and I'll be DAMNED if I ever put myself or my family in that situation without doing everything in my power to prevent it.


Oh, come on. Now you're claiming I don't love my kids as much as you do yours?

You have clearly made a choice that you are willing to sacrifice a certain measure of security given certain situations. Maybe you love your kids just as much as I love my family but your statements make me doubt seriously that you are willing to go to the same lengths I am in order to protect them.

Again, do you let your kids ride in a car? Traffic accidents are THE biggest cause of accidental death in this country & second highest cause of accidental death in young kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Yes, but do I actively avoid dangerous drivers? Yes, do I drive as safely as possible and plan out routes on trips with safety in mind? Yes. Do I perform safety checks and maintenance on my vehicles often, yes. Again, I take actions within my power to secure the safety of my family, just as I do everything I can legally do to secure the safety of my family in regards to being armed.

Do you let them go swimming? Drownings are THE biggest causes of accidental death in kids. I guess you don't love your kids as much as someone else who doesn't.

Yes I'll let my children go swimming, but not after making 100% sure they are well trained and aware of the dangers of water and I will never willingly put them in an unsupervised water environment until I am confident that they are aware of and respect the dangers of pools/ponds/lakes including things that may exist under the waters surface. Like this story...

Search Crews Find Body of Drowned Teen near Weeping Water - Action 3 News - Omaha, Nebraska News, Weather, and Sports |

Do you live in a house that has ANY flammable materials in them AT AL? Fires are the 4th leading cause of death in kids. I guess you don't llove your kids.

Yes, I have some flammable materials but again, I make sure every room has a working fire detector and several working fire extinguishers throughout the house. I also believe in appropriate fire situation training for my family in addition to predetermined plans of action should a fire occur. Again, I take all the steps within my power to prevent harm to my family... just like I take steps to prevent harm to my family out in public by being responsibly and legally armed.


I hope you're not so obtuse that you can't see where I'm going with this.

I see where you're going but I'm hoping you see that I'm merely advocating that my family is my number one concern no matter what and if I have to make sacrifices personally to ensure their safety then I will. I'm aware that I'm willing to go further down that path than most and that I'll be ridiculed and called "paranoid" for doing so but it doesn't matter because I learned a long time ago that Doing what is right, is not always popular.

I love my kids enough to not teach them that danger is lurking around every corner ready to snuff their lives out in instant I also don't teach them that they should fear doing ANYTHING because they could die. If I did that then my kids could grow up with a serious mental health problem.

I don't think keeping your children naive to the dangers of the world is a good thing however I also don't think making them afraid of anything dangerous is a good thing either. The path I choose is to teach my family how to DEAL with anything that might cause them harm. This includes how to survive severe weather, how to survive out in nature should they become lost as well as how to be prepared for and deal with any other myriad of things that could cause them harm, including but not limited to other people.

I teach them to be aware of their surroundings, don't take unecessary risks & be as prepared as possible. But I also temper that with common sense. I also teach them to not be so AFRAID OF DEATH OR HARM that they never live.

I agree with this, I don't refrain from activities, I refrain from going places that prevent me from being prepared. I never advocated being afraid of death or harm. I merely prepare for them much more than most people.

Why do you insist on attempting to insinuate anything else? You're attempting to make ridiculous statements that have no foundation in what I've commented.

It did.

But he didn't know it was going to turn out OK when he was unable to get to his firearm and multiple criminals were actively burglarizing his property in his family's presence. Again you're obfuscating the point. Hindsight is always 20/20 (Meaning NOW you know it turned out ok but as the SHTF the OP had no idea it would be OK).. would you be so cavalier about not being prepared if it was your family in danger?



You will.

I don't plan for the times when I don't need to be prepared, I plan for the potential time when I need to be prepared. No one PLANS on NEEDING to defend themselves but responsible people prepare to be able to defend themselves should the need arise.



No he didn't. He also didn't KNOW that they were'nt going to ge struck by lightning or get bit by a mosquito carrying the West Nile virus or even suffer a cramp while swimming & drown.

Swimming in a lake during a lightning storm is simple Darwinism... obviously anyone who knows anything about the outdoors is not going to put themselves on the lake during a lightning storm willingly. Also there are methods to surviving a cramp (one is requiring your children to wear float vests).

You're right about the mosquito and west nile though, however as someone who enjoys the outdoors (hunting/fishing/outdoor team sports/etc..) I know that my family needs to be aware of the potential and be mindful of any bites they may suffer and how to treat them.

I'm suprised you didn't list any types of the common allergens including poison ivy/sumac/oak that you can come in contact with at lakes. Also in southern Indiana lakes there is a strong possibility of snakes being in your vicinity, not to mention other potentially hazardous animals like snapping turtles.

I fear none of these things but make my family aware of and prepared to the best of my ability for all of them.



And yet he wasn't able to control the weather, kill all mosquitos or stop a fatal cramp. But he took his family to the lake & anticipated having a good time in spite of those risks.


See my post above this comment^


And sometimes I wonder how many people who own guns "feel safer" knowing they own a gun & plan on using it at the SLIGHTEST hint of trouble because it is some sort of magic talisman that will ward away ANY risk whatsoever.

I wouldn't consider multiple perpetrators in the middle of a robbery to be "the slightest hint of trouble" like you make it out to be. I look at my firearms as tools in the hands of someone who is set on the defense of his family's life and property as is allowed by law.

People sure like to throw around the word "sheep" a lot. Just because I don't live in CONSTANT fear of death doesn't mean I'm a sheep.

I agree 100% with this statement.


"Sheep" implies that one doesn't think for themselves & just follows the crowd. I don't think I could be reasonably accused of that.

If you choose to not prepare yourself for potentially harmful situations because you follow the masses and feel that it's not "prudent" to legally keep your weapons available to you when you are out and about then I would disagree with your statement that you can't be reasonably accused of "following the crowd". Just by being a member of this site and being armed sometimes sets you apart from what I would consider "Sheep" but it doesn't mean I agree with the position of "acceptable disarmament" for recreational activities that you seem to be advocating here.

Rebuttals^


Oh and USMC:

You must spread some reputation around before you give it to USMC_0311 again.

 

[thompal]

I think that attitudes like these are why we get branded as paranoid gun nuts.

I think you are somewhat missing the point. The OP and his family were confronted by a gang of thugs, and since he was unarmed, his family was completely at the mercy of the criminals.

Look at a different scenario and see if you still think being armed was un-necessary:

Let's say he and his family were walking down the street, unarmed. Two thugs approach and demand wallets/purses/cell-phones/etc. The victims comply and the thugs leave. Would you say that since nobody was physically harmed that being armed was merely a paranoid affectation?

In both cases, the only thing lost was property (and dignity). In both cases, the victims remained unharmed solely at the whim of the thugs. The victim is 100% at the mercy of the thugs. Would YOU really be comfortable with that? You are willing to bet your life, and the lives of your loved ones on the "good judgement" of the person who has decided to rob you? Are you willing to bet that ALL thugs are uninterested in a little romp with you wife/girlfriend/child?

 

[IndySSD]

Would YOU really be comfortable with that? Are you willing to bet your life, and the lives of your loved ones on the "good judgement" of the person who has decided to rob you? Are you willing to bet that ALL thugs are uninterested in a little romp with you wife/girlfriend/child?

This, a thousand times this.....if I could rep I would but I'm all out for the day... I'll try to remember to revisit this thread tomorrow and drop some +rep your direction.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Would you CC that in an ankle holster or just strap up the shoulder rig OC and figure on the intimidation/bluff factor to keep criminals in line?

You need proper beach attire...

 

[IndySSD]

Would you CC that in an ankle holster or just strap up the shoulder rig OC and figure on the intimidation/bluff factor to keep criminals in line?

If I see someone rocking that carry gear it doesn't matter WHERE he's holstering his "Guns".... I'm leaving.

 

[thompal]

If they are threatening you directly or a third person YOU CAN'T KILL THEM no matter how much you think they deserve it.

I think you meant "AREN'T" in the previous sentence.

Again, people are taking the comment in black & white. I never said being prepared was being paranoid. I said carrying 24/7/365 was being paranoid.

Well, I will agree to only carry 12 hours a day, and 5 days a week, IF YOU can tell me with 100% certainty WHICH hours and days are 100% safe for me and my family. In fact, if you can guarantee me, 100%, that I will be safe tonight, I will leave my handgun home, even though I have to walk from a parking garage to my place of work. Even though I did NOT get mugged last night, can you GUARANTEE that I won't get mugged tonight? If you can't give me that guarantee, I think I'll just carry my firearm. Just in case, mind you.

Or am I being too paranoid?

 

[40calPUNISHER]

Get a Glock and install marine spring cups on it. Wear it while swimming... Might sound funny to some but you just had the perfect situation for it. As far as holsters, I've got a cheap-O fobus paddle holster with the red rubber backing that I wear with basketball shorts and it stays in place while I ride my bike. Also, you could try getting a Pitbull or German Shepard.. Either of those work quite well too.

 

[USMC_0311]

Get a Glock and install marine spring cups on it. Wear it while swimming... Might sound funny to some but you just had the perfect situation for it. As far as holsters, I've got a cheap-O fobus paddle holster with the red rubber backing that I wear with basketball shorts and it stays in place while I ride my bike. Also, you could try getting a Pitbull or German Shepard.. Either of those work quite well too.

2 good points.
1. anything with Marine in front of it is good to go.
2. German Shepherds are awesome.

Now if you had a Marine German Shepherd like I do then you got the best of both worlds.

 

[40calPUNISHER]

2 good points.
1. anything with Marine in front of it is good to go.
2. German Shepherds are awesome.

Now if you had a Marine German Shepherd like I do then you got the best of both worlds.

I sure as **** better have a Marine German Shepard like you do since I bought one of your pups!

 

[USMC_0311]

I sure as **** better have a Marine German Shepard like you do since I bought one of your pups!

Just get out of the way if you hear it growl OHH RAH!!!

 

[JetGirl]

Just get out of the way if you hear it growl OHH RAH!!!

I can't rep you again so soon, but that ^ was good! LOL

 

[Jack Ryan]

Me and my fiance, 3yr old son, and my 2 German Shorthair Pointers went down to the beach at our local reservoir right before dark to take a dip in the lake at the beach and to let the dogs cool off. As we swam a little longer and it got darker and darker, the beach became quiet and before i knew it, it was only my family and dogs down there....Until i noticed about 300yds down the beach a bunch of guys packing up and leaving. I was in the water still with my 2 dogs when i noticed 4 mexicans walking to an old van parked right by my truck and another walking toward my son and fiance which were about 80yds away from me in the water. I called my dogs and quickly ran up to my son and the lone mexican walked away to the rest of his clan. My fiance said he was trying to talk to her but he was speaking in "espanol" and she couldn't understand him. It was getiing almost pitch black dark out when i noticed someone in the back of my truck. So i told my fiance to take my son and the dogs (for protection) up to the beach house about 100yds away and to wait for me to come pick them up. I went up to my truck and the one f#$%tard was hopping out the back of my truck while the others were taking my spare mickey thompson 33X12.5 baja claw off road tire and cramming it in their mini van. I was clearly pissed by then and asked them WTF they were doing and they pulled the whole "no comprende englesee" bull**** on me. I yelled for my oldest and most aggresive dog and went to walk toward the driver's side door and they cut me off to where i couldn't get in either side of my truck. My gun was under the seat and the only option i had was to grab my cell phone and pocket knife and walk away. I am 6'1" and 235lbs but that is nothing against 5 thugs! I got on the phone and called central dispatch and by my luck a DNR officer that i know very well responded to the scene...but by the time he got there the thugs were long gone! They did by chance throw my spare tire out in the parking lot! They were never found but the state park has many exits and places to hide.
I do believe having my dogs there did make a little bit of a difference but here is my question for you guys!!!
How can i carry concealled in a situation like down at the beach and keep my firearm within reach of me but out of reach of the children?

They just wanted directions to Fletch's house. After cutting him a break on his roof you can't expect them to buy their own tires too.

 

[Panama]

They just wanted directions to Fletch's house. After cutting him a break on his roof you can't expect them to buy their own tires too.

THAT'S A REP!