gun store dumb gun handling

[CountryBoy19]

Because there ain't no BOOGER HOOK on the dangblasted BANG SWITCH.
That's how.

And there wasn't in the OP either, unless you're referring the the father pointing the gun at the floor and pulling the trigger.

Once again, I'll ask. Is the problem with the fact that the gun was pointed at the floor and dry-fired? Or is it that the gun was pointed at a person after it was rendered inoperable?

If it's the former, then tough. What else do you want a person to do in a gun-shop?

If it's the latter then you're being a hypocrite. A firearm that has been rendered inoperable is magnitudes safer than a firearm in unknown/loaded condition that is in a holster/case.

If you don't believe that then you just don't get it yet.

Originally Posted by 88GT:

There is a difference between claiming he "can't comprehend anything" and claiming that he "can't comprehend that level of common sense". If you don't understand that then go back to first grade.

I went back to your original post and re-read just to see if you might have a point. You don't. You're still wrong.

You're definitely in the minority there. There are many people that hold the same opinion as myself, I'm just the only one willing to stand my ground and voice it. That doesn't make me wrong at all. As a matter of fact, I don't think a single thread of evidence can be presented that says I'm dead wrong and everybody knows that. That is why we're still having the discussion.

What you absolutely cannot grasp is that while YOU may have been watching the father and son, and you might know the condition of the gun, there might be another customer five feet away from you that had his head buried in a case. How do you think they'll feel when they turn around and see the father/son pointing a gun at them and pulling the trigger?

So we go back to the OP, and my point about how many people need to check a firearm before it is deemed "clear" and safe to dry-fire. If you're at Cabelas should you take the gun around to every patron and employee first so they can check that it's clear before you dry-fire it?

I can certainly understand your point about a person coming in part way through not knowing the condition of the gun. But the OP stated the whole story, which tells us that he knew the firearm was no longer operable, and he still made a big deal about it. That is the sort of common sense I'm talking about.

This whole thread has been about YOU, your common sense, your comfort level. Sorry bub, I don't care.

It's not just about YOU!

The father and son CANNOT be allowed to disrespect other people in the store. If that isn't clear in your book of "common sense", you need a new book...

No, it's not about me, it's about using common sense and not being a hypocrite. In order for it to be about me I would have to be the OP, or the father/son in the OP's story.

 

[printcraft]

............
No, it's not about me, it's about using common sense and not being a hypocrite. In order for it to be about me I would have to be the OP, or the father/son in the OP's story.

CountryBoy19 you are going into minutia over the details of the OP.

Take a step back and look at the broader picture.

Can you really say it is a bad idea to practice safety in every instance?


If having someone shot never happens then why the stories about
"I thought it wasn't loaded, I didn't mean to kill my mom."
would never make it into the news.

The facts are it does happen and IS preventable.

An 1/10th of an ounce of prevention is worth 1000 lbs of cure.

 

[bwframe]

No, it's not about me, it's about using common sense...

Good luck to you and anyone within your range, my friend!

Darwin has special awards for the stubborn who refuse to acknowledge established safety rules. I hope you never have to receive one.

 

[CountryBoy19]

CountryBoy19 you are going into minutia over the details of the OP.

Take a step back and look at the broader picture.

Can you really say it is a bad idea to practice safety in every instance?


If having someone shot never happens then why the stories about
"I thought it wasn't loaded, I didn't mean to kill my mom."
would never make it into the news.

The facts are it does happen and IS preventable.

An 1/10th of an ounce of prevention is worth 1000 lbs of cure.

Oh, I'm fully aware of the broader picture here. And no I can't say it's a bad idea to practice safety all the time. I'm saying the OP over-reacted to a situation that very obviously was not dangerous. All it takes is a little common sense to realize that. The discussion eventually devolved into a discussion of the 4 rules and when/where they apply. Some people seem to think that there is never any exception to the rules, when I think that there obviously is an exception to them otherwise 90+% of us are hypocrites. Those exceptions are applied using common sense. Examples: it is acceptable to sweep people with a carry gun that's in a holster, it is acceptable to sweep people with guns in cases, it is acceptable to look down the barrel of a firearm after you've verified that it is clear, it is acceptable to point a barrel at somebody when it's not on a firearm. So why would it not be acceptable to sweep somebody with a firearm that has been 100% verified to be inoperable and/or incapable of firing a shot?

All of those instances are exceptions to rule #1 and I don't know of a single person that doesn't make/allow at least 1 of those exceptions.

Most, if not all, of the "I didn't think it was loaded" stories end up with somebody pointing a gun at somebody AND pulling the trigger. Those don't apply to this scenario because there was absolutely no way the trigger could even be pulled after the gun was dry-fired.

Do you get my point now?

Was it a good idea to point/sweep the others in the shop? No

Would it have been courteous to not sweep others? Yes

Were the people on the receiving end of that in any sort of danger what-so-ever? Not any danger that could have resulted from the specific shotgun in question.

Did the OP blow the situation out of proportion? Yes

I've held those opinions all along, and I think you would see that from some of my earlier replies. I don't know how it got construed into me being a careless jerk who is dangerous around firearms; I guess some people just don't get it.

Good luck to you and anyone within your range, my friend!

Darwin has special awards for the stubborn who refuse to acknowledge established safety rules. I hope you never have to receive one.

I don't need luck, I've got it taken care of. But thanks for the kind offer.

 

[youngda9]

Historically, it's the people who felt that simple common sense was sufficient that end up in situations that could otherwise have been avoided had they simply followed the 4 rules. The 4 rules practically guarantee an outcome by statistically limiting the chances for screw up. (Never say never, right? ) Your common sense can't do that, in part because it makes an assumption from the get-go that a gun might be safe when it's not.

Common sense ain't so common. We can't be sure that others have it, can't be bet our lives that they'll use it, and shouldn't be so bold as to assume that we know so much about every firearm to eliminate any and all situations pertaining to gunhandling skills. Just because someone dropped a hammer on a firearm and is now pointing a firearm at you doesn't mean that they won't rack the firearm with their finger on the trigger sending the next round into your skull.

Many people have been shot by unloaded firearms...it's amazing.

4 rules trumps all...NEVER NEVER NEVER violate them. And don't put up with anyone else violating them either. This will guarantee that nobody gets hurt. PERIOD

 

[crispy]

So why would it not be acceptable to sweep somebody with a firearm that has been 100% verified to be inoperable and/or incapable of firing a shot?

Why don't you prove your point?

Take a handgun, render it inoperable by removing the striker, then 100% verify it. Then go out and sweep a police officer with it.

Report back to us what you find out...

 

[CountryBoy19]

Why don't you prove your point?

Take a handgun, render it inoperable by removing the striker, then 100% verify it. Then go out and sweep a police officer with it.

Report back to us what you find out...

To make a fair and accurate comparison to the situation in the OP the police officer would be made aware of the situation prior to being swept.

I'm sure I could find a police officer that would be willing to watch me remove the striker/firing pin and then allow me to sweep him with that firearm.

Point proven, end of story.

Not such a smart*** now are you?

 

[IndyGunSafety]

...but I'm not afraid to point a firearm that I have verified to be unloaded at my head. I do this every time I consider buying a used firearm, and I wouldn't put money out for anything without doing this.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how God thins the heard!

I don't mind if you remove yourself from the gene pool... I just hope you don't take anyone with you.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

Recently stopped into Down by the Tracks gun shop in Galveston. I give them credit. They open the chamber and clear every firearm before they hand it to you. Then they check it again when they put it back in the case or on the rack. McDonald's gun shop in Marion does the same. I always make it a point to hand the firearm back with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction and action open. It is just good manners. Too many accidents have happened with an "Empty" firearm.

 

[KDUBCR250]

I didnt read all the posts but if I was in a shop (or anywhere) and someone swept me I would say something to them about it. However if someone was pointing a firearm at me and pulling the trigger I would freak out on them

 

[bwframe]

I didnt read all the posts...

You really should.
It's a real eye opener to know that there are those among us. Naivety is one thing, even understandable at any age. Intentional defiance of known proven safety rules, that's another creature all together.

 

[crispy]

I'll save you the time.

If YOU know that a customer has cleared a gun and/or rendered it inoperable, its perfectly fine for said customer to go waving it around from that point on, because YOU know its safe.

Or it was safe... twenty minutes ago... wait is that the same rifle...?

It is illogical and improper to point out to said customer that it is not good practice to sweep anyone with said firearm because dumbass customer is unlikely to do that in the future since they aren't abiding by the four rules now...

I think that about covers ONE point of view.

 

[CampingJosh]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how God thins the heard!

I don't mind if you remove yourself from the gene pool... I just hope you don't take anyone with you.

Seriously? You don't examine the bore of a used firearm you're considering purchasing?

I just verified that it's not loaded. Then I looked down the barrel. Yeah, that's dangerous.

If firearms are so difficult to understand, perhaps you should just avoid them entirely. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know how else to respond to this comment.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Seriously? You don't examine the bore of a used firearm you're considering purchasing?

I just verified that it's not loaded. Then I looked down the barrel. Yeah, that's dangerous.

If firearms are so difficult to understand, perhaps you should just avoid them entirely. I don't mean to be rude, but I don't know how else to respond to this comment.

You don't get it. Just keep pointing that gun at your head... or banging your head against that wall... but I think that may be affecting your judgement. One good thing about banging your head against a wall... it feels really good when you stop.

 

[CountryBoy19]

You don't get it. Just keep pointing that gun at your head... or banging your head against that wall... but I think that may be affecting your judgement. One good thing about banging your head against a wall... it feels really good when you stop.

Why don't you just answer his question?

Do you not inspect the bore of a firearm that you purchase?

If not, well... I'll refrain from name calling and insults.

If so, then how do you do it? How would you do it for a muzzle-loader? What about other action types that prevent you from checking it from the breech?



The hippocracy and/or lack of common sense of some people here just can't be put into words.

 

[CampingJosh]

You don't get it. Just keep pointing that gun at your head... or banging your head against that wall... but I think that may be affecting your judgement.

You're right. I don't get how Col. Cooper's four rules trump the laws of physics. No one has explained that one, and it's something I've never witnessed or even heard about.

One good thing about banging your head against a wall... it feels really good when you stop.

Here is some common ground! I will stop banging my head against the wall in this thread. Here are my last thoughts on it.

You're very correct that a man who never points any firearm in any condition at himself will never be in danger of shooting himself. But that does not mean that a man who does point a verified unloaded firearm at himself is in danger of doing so.

Steps in my process of firearm handling:
1. Examine the chamber to determine condition.
A. If the firearm is unloaded, go to step 2.
B. If loaded, unload. Then repeat step 1.
2. Treat the firearm as unloaded.

Your argument seems to be that "treat the firearm as unloaded" leads to bad habits. Any process is dangerous if you skip a step. Seriously, anything. Driving ("I wanted to stop, but I forgot to push the brake pedal"). Walking. ("I did the leaning forward part, but I forgot to put my foot out in front to catch me"). Cooking ("I started cutting the vegetables, but I forgot to stop when I got to my hand").
Life requires diligence. Firearm handling is not inherently different than anything else.

Your argument leads to needless fear of situations that are in no way dangerous.

 

[bwframe]

The hippocracy and/or lack of common sense of some people here just can't be put into words.

Your argument leads to needless fear of situations that are in no way dangerous.

My common sense tells me that if we can just keep you two together, far far away from the rest of us, that the world would be a much safer place.

 

[CountryBoy19]

My common sense tells me that if we can just keep you two together, far far away from the rest of us, that the world would be a much safer place.

Wow, that's all you can come up with right? Because your argument got blown out the window 3 pages back. You're like the little 2nd grade girl on the bus, "Whatever, blah blah blah, talk to my hand because my face don't talk"

Now your maturity level truly comes out.

BTW, what makes it so hard to just answer simple questions?

Oh yeah, I got it, because if you answer those questions you either lie, you're proven wrong, or you're proven to be a hypocrite. Either of which paint you in a bad position. So now all you can come up with is garbage posts?

This is getting exciting, and the pos rep just keeps going up on my end...

 

[LPMan59]

i keep a loaded pistol in my glove box sometimes. I guess I'm violating the rules every time i pass another car or drive by a pedestrian or a business or a house....

i also carry a 1911 in a galco MC rig sometimes; the muzzle sweeps everyone behind me. Cocked, locked and a thumbbreak arent enough?

carry on gentlemen.

 

[CountryBoy19]

i keep a loaded pistol in my glove box sometimes. I guess I'm violating the rules every time i pass another car or drive by a pedestrian or a business or a house....

i also carry a 1911 in a galco MC rig sometimes; the muzzle sweeps everyone behind me. Cocked, locked and a thumbbreak arent enough?

carry on gentlemen.

Oh no, that is miraculously safe and somehow exempted from the rules that cannot have exemptions.



I'm still waiting on explanations as to how certain scenarios can be exempted from the rules that cannot have exemptions. They have yet to answer those questions.