Guerena Autopsy released

[Keyser Soze]

If you really think that is what the law is, I hope to heaven you aren't really any form of LE...

What do you mean? Thats what the law is? I hope to heaven you are not some type of attorney....

 

[lashicoN]

Absolutely justified. Crouching, standing, kneeling, fire, safe...point firearm at a police officer and lethal force is justified.

Absolute is a strong word. Are you sure you want that coming back to bite you along with all the other absolute things you've said on this forum? You're the one who said that if they miss a lot, it's probably not justified. Are you saying you were wrong about that?

Too bad the PD has buried the video evidence, so we don't know if he was pointing it at them or not.

Why is it only justified if it's pointed at a police officer? Shouldn't rules apply to everyone?

 

[dross]

Of course it does not tell the "whole" story if it does not support your beliefs the shooting was unjustified.

I don't have a belief that the shooting was unjustified. From what we know it looks like:

1. The type of raid was unjustified.
2. The way it was conducted was unjustified.
3. The place it was conducted was unjustified.
4. The withholding of medical care was unjustified.
5. The items they found in the raid did not provide justification.
6. NONE, ZERO, ZILCH of any of the information coming out provides justification.

But at least the cops are coming clean and telling us everything they know....oh wait, they're hiding things and started spin control the moment the thing ended.

But you're right, I'm the one with a preconceived notion.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Absolute is a strong word. Are you sure you want that coming back to bite you along with all the other absolute things you've said on this forum? You're the one who said that if they miss a lot, it's probably not justified. Are you saying you were wrong about that?

Too bad the PD has buried the video evidence, so we don't know if he was pointing it at them or not.

Why is it only justified if it's pointed at a police officer? Shouldn't rules apply to everyone?

Yea.....the rules do apply to everyone.I know where your going.. the warrant was valid..sirens for 7 seconds...knocking for 15 seconds...clearly labeled uniforms.

 

[jeremy]

Its accurate.
http://www.forcescience.org/articles/shotsfired.pdf

WTF are you siting that for?!
You are the one who claimed they shot with in excess of 87% accuracy...

I'll even bold and underline it for you...

Don't just read the story. Think about the words. 61 out of 70 shots landed. They obviously had sight alignment. This was not a split second type shoot. You would see something like 15/70.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I don't have a belief that the shooting was unjustified. From what we know it looks like:


1. The way it was conducted was unjustified.
2. The place it was conducted was unjustified.
3. The withholding of medical care was unjustified.
4. The items they found in the raid did not provide justification.

 

[Keyser Soze]

WTF are you siting that for?!
You are the one who claimed they shot with in excess of 87% accuracy...

I'll even bold and underline it for you...

Yea.....that's insanely accurate even for swat officers. Police action shootings its something around 18%.. Which lead me to believe they must have been zeroed in for more than a few seconds. You never seen that type of accuracy.

 

[dross]

dross's plan for surviving a mistaken no knock raid:

Once the door breaks open and you're standing there with a rifle in your hands and you see it's the police, you only have one choice, unfortunate as it is. Start shooting and hope you can drive them away into a standoff. Then call the local media, get them there, tell them your side, and surrender with the cameras rolling.

Not shooting will get you shot.

 

[jeremy]

I don't have a belief that the shooting was unjustified. From what we know it looks like:

1. The type of raid was unjustified.
2. The way it was conducted was unjustified.
3. The place it was conducted was unjustified.
4. The withholding of medical care was unjustified.
5. The items they found in the raid did not provide justification.
6. NONE, ZERO, ZILCH of any of the information coming out provides justification.

But at least the cops are coming clean and telling us everything they know....oh wait, they're hiding things and started spin control the moment the thing ended.

But you're right, I'm the one with a preconceived notion.

Here Keysor because apparently you are having problems with English...

My Spanish Grammar is a Little Rusty, please excuse me on that...

No tengo la creencia de que el tiroteo fue injustificado. Por lo que sabemos que es así:
1. El tipo de ataque no estaba justificada.
2. La forma en que se llevó a cabo no estaba justificada.
3. El lugar se llevó a cabo no estaba justificada.
4. La retención de la atención médica no estaba justificada.
5. Los artículos que se encuentran en la redada no justificar.
6. NADA, CERO, ZILCH de cualquiera de la información que sale justifica.

Pero al menos los policías vienen limpios y nos dice todo lo que saben .... oh espera, que está ocultando cosas y empezó a girar el control en el momento que lo terminó. Pero tienes razón, yo soy el que tiene una idea preconcebida.

 

[jeremy]

Yea.....that's insanely accurate even for swat officers. Police action shootings its something around 18%.. Which lead me to believe they must have been zeroed in for more than a few seconds. You never seen that type of accuracy.

If my Soldiers shot like that they would be working in a Job were they no Carry Bang Sticks...

 

[lashicoN]

Yea.....the rules do apply to everyone.I know where your going.. the warrant was valid..sirens for 7 seconds...knocking for 15 seconds...clearly labeled uniforms.

The only place I was going with that was to expose your "Holier Than Thou" attitude when it comes to LE rights vs. People's rights.

 

[orange]

dross's plan for surviving a mistaken no knock raid:

Once the door breaks open and you're standing there with a rifle in your hands and you see it's the police, you only have one choice, unfortunate as it is. Start shooting and hope you can drive them away into a standoff. Then call the local media, get them there, tell them your side, and surrender with the cameras rolling.

Not shooting will get you shot.

What's your plan for surviving repeatedly falling while in police custody?

 

[Fargo]

What do you mean? Thats what the law is? I hope to heaven you are not some type of attorney....

Really, I believe there are 3 cops from Atlanta PD who are doing federal time for shooting someone who shot at them while they served a warrant...

You should ring them up and let them know about this law as I'm sure they would be happy to get out.

Does the name Kathryn Johnston ring a bell?

Your notions of what the law is are pretty sorry to say the least.

I want to see a citation to this hypothetical law that gives brightline justification for the police to shoot anyone who points a gun at them.

Either show me the law that does this, or lay off the bs.

Joe

 

[Dragon]

A no-knock warrant was served here in Delaware County years ago and upon entering the home a swat officer was shot by the 70+ year-old woman inside before they took her without shooting her. The policeman survived and she wasn't charged for a thing. Why? They had no rights to enter her home, as they had the wrong home.

This is the same scenario. There was no reason for them to be there, so as previously stated there was no justification. The shooting happened as a result of poor judgement and terrible planning on their part, so they should be found at fault for murdering him.

BTW if you re-read the autopsy, he was struck 22 times, not 61.....

 

[dross]

What's your plan for surviving repeatedly falling while in police custody?

It involves continuing to breathe.

I just think it's a shame that the cops have a technique they use that they sometimes get wrong that leaves a citizen with no choice but to shoot them to survive.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Really, I believe there are 3 cops from Atlanta PD who are doing federal time for shooting someone who shot at them while they served a warrant...

You should ring them up and let them know about this law as I'm sure they would be happy to get out.

Does the name Kathryn Johnston ring a bell?

Your notions of what the law is are pretty sorry to say the least.

I want to see a citation to this hypothetical law that gives brightline justification for the police to shoot anyone who points a gun at them.

Either show me the law that does this, or lay off the bs.

Joe

The affidavit was junk on the Johnston case. The officers were dressed in plain clothes, not in uniform. There was also a sizable gap in time between her shot and the officers returning fire. Does any of that "ring a bell"

There is no "law". Who needs law. Point a gun at me and I will either seek cover, or shoot. Maybe I will go to jail? I'll be alive.

 

[jeremy]

There is no "law".
Who needs law.
Point a gun at me and I will either seek cover, or shoot.
Maybe I will go to jail?
I'll be alive.

Maybe you'll be alive, maybe not...

Depends on whose house you enter...

 

[hornadylnl]

The affidavit was junk on the Johnston case. The officers were dressed in plain clothes, not in uniform. There was also a sizable gap in time between her shot and the officers returning fire. Does any of that "ring a bell"

There is no "law". Who needs law. Point a gun at me and I will either seek cover, or shoot. Maybe I will go to jail? I'll be alive.

Do you recommend that course of action for those wrongfully targeted by the police?

 

[Keyser Soze]

Maybe you'll be alive, maybe not...

Depends on whose house you enter...

If I am ever entering someones home I will not be alone.

 

[Mog]

It's obvious. They were actually trying to save his life and inflict only non-life threatening wounds on him. The shots that resulted in his death were tragic misses. They were just trying to shoot the rifle out of his hands.

Absolutely. That's why they waited over an hour to go in to render any aid.