Game of Thrones-Observations

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  • Libertarian01

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    There have been a few references to tunnels under Winterfell. I think the crypt dwellers escape through them.

    We are already 1/3 of the way through the final season. Will the battle of Winterfell be finished in one episode? With three episodes to bring the whole series to conclusion? Melisandre has to come back and die. The golden company has to be dealt with. Clegane bowl. Cersei has to die. Someone gets the iron throne. There will be a lot of loose ends to tie up in the few remaining episodes.

    If Bran can see all of history through the trees, why can he not see how the children of the forest and the first men defeated the night king?

    I'm sure when it's all said and done, I'm sure we'll be able to look back and say "Oh, that's why he didn't say anything." It'll probably make sense in some way.


    Don't forget, it was the children of the forest that created the night king. They were in a war with the first men, who were kicking their butts, they weren't warlike, so they used powerful magick.

    They captured a first man, probably a powerful warrior but we don't know, then they twisted him into something dark and powerful to destroy their enemies - the first men.

    However, when you look at it this ls really a copy of Mary Shelly's "Frankenstein." They created a monster they could not control, and thus the night king went about to kill everyone. The first men because the magick forced him to, but also the children of the forest in hatred and revenge for what they did to him. The children of the forest have no idea how to destroy him or they would have done so long ago.

    Remember too that Bran sees things as they need to come to pass. He told Samwell that "now is the time" to tell Jon who he really is. He didn't do it because of time, but because of timing. He had already seen it. He knew that Jon needed to be in just the right place and needed to be told at just the right time. So off he sends Samwell to do what needed doing. I think it is the same with the night king. He sees where the night king should die, and he sees everyone who will struggle. So he'll try to put all the pieces in place to get the job done. The only question is if the night king can see it too, how does he intend to cheat fate? Can he make a move that Bran cannot see, or that tries to take advantage of Bran's inexperience so that Bran isn't looking everywhere he needs to?

    Doug
     

    Libertarian01

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    Near the end I knew Arya HAD to be involved, although I didn't see the part to play.

    All the big fighters were elsewhere, so what could end the conflict except for one little assassin that could get by everything to deliver the killing blow. Well, almost...

    :cool:

    Doug

    PS - Lyanna Mormont carried her own weight and then some!
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    Fun watch, but very predictable.

    Sort of makes it feel like the next 3 episodes (long ones) are going to be boring. I can't really see how a big battle at King's Landing beats this one.

    Also feels a bit disappointing that this one was so short. Like... here's the threat we've been building up to for 6 seasons. OK we beat them, now what.
     

    Libertarian01

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    I was wrong. At first I thought she dropped the dagger and Bran stabbed the night king, but it was her. Same maneuver she used against Brianne.

    I love Arya.

    Now how to fight Cersei? The entire north is depleted. They have one (1) dragon at best, maybe(?) two (2). And IF they have them they're wounded. The great horse riders are slaughtered. The unsullied lost at least half of their force, maybe more. Cersei has the armies of the entire south, plus the golden company.

    Arya again...?

    Doug
     

    chipbennett

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    I was wrong. At first I thought she dropped the dagger and Bran stabbed the night king, but it was her. Same maneuver she used against Brianne.

    I love Arya.

    Now how to fight Cersei? The entire north is depleted. They have one (1) dragon at best, maybe(?) two (2). And IF they have them they're wounded. The great horse riders are slaughtered. The unsullied lost at least half of their force, maybe more. Cersei has the armies of the entire south, plus the golden company.

    Arya again...?

    Doug

    Not much was made of this, but Arya used the same dagger of mysterious origin that the assassin used to try to assassinate Catelyn Stark. (At least, it appeared to be the same dagger.)

    As for how to fight Cersei: she still has nothing to defeat even a single dragon (hokey anti-dragon trebuchets notwithstanding). There could be an Ironborn mutiny/civil war that either neutralizes the Iron Fleet/Gold Company, or that causes them to change sides. A Sansa/Tyrion wedding (take two) could unite the Lannisters and Starks against Cersei (especially with support from Jamie). Lots of ways this could play out.

    Did anyone else find the Melisandre "losing my religion" thing odd/anti-climactic? It seems the whole Lord of Light/R'hllor thing was a red herring.

    At least Lyanna and Jorah Mormont got heroic deaths.
     

    Libertarian01

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    Not much was made of this, but Arya used the same dagger of mysterious origin that the assassin used to try to assassinate Catelyn Stark. (At least, it appeared to be the same dagger.)

    As for how to fight Cersei: she still has nothing to defeat even a single dragon (hokey anti-dragon trebuchets notwithstanding). There could be an Ironborn mutiny/civil war that either neutralizes the Iron Fleet/Gold Company, or that causes them to change sides. A Sansa/Tyrion wedding (take two) could unite the Lannisters and Starks against Cersei (especially with support from Jamie). Lots of ways this could play out.

    Did anyone else find the Melisandre "losing my religion" thing odd/anti-climactic? It seems the whole Lord of Light/R'hllor thing was a red herring.

    At least Lyanna and Jorah Mormont got heroic deaths.


    As I recall that dagger has a long and interesting history. In the beginning Jaime pushed Bran out of a window to kill him so he wouldn't report that Jamie and Cersei were having sex in an abandoned tower. Yet Bran lived. So an assassin was sent to kill Bran off before he could talk. The assassin was killed, and Petyr Baelish was asked about the dagger. Petyr set up Tyrion by claiming it was his, when in reality it was Littlefingers himself. Thus a great irony that the dagger Petyr had used to set up the Lannisters was used to kill him. Arya kept it as it was made of Valerian Steel.

    I think the dragons are too heavily wounded to fight effectively, if at all

    I believe Melisandre knew she was going to die having used so much of her own life force to light the swords and the trench. She just chose what terms to end on.

    Very sad about Lyanna and Jorah. Now who runs Bear Island? There are no more Mormonts left

    I also think winter is about to become much more mild than it has been. With no night king to whip it up it will be more natural and easy.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    chipbennett

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    As I recall that dagger has a long and interesting history. In the beginning Jaime pushed Bran out of a window to kill him so he wouldn't report that Jamie and Cersei were having sex in an abandoned tower. Yet Bran lived. So an assassin was sent to kill Bran off before he could talk. The assassin was killed, and Petyr Baelish was asked about the dagger. Petyr set up Tyrion by claiming it was his, when in reality it was Littlefingers himself. Thus a great irony that the dagger Petyr had used to set up the Lannisters was used to kill him. Arya kept it as it was made of Valerian Steel.

    I think the dragons are too heavily wounded to fight effectively, if at all

    I believe Melisandre knew she was going to die having used so much of her own life force to light the swords and the trench. She just chose what terms to end on.

    Very sad about Lyanna and Jorah. Now who runs Bear Island? There are no more Mormonts left

    I also think winter is about to become much more mild than it has been. With no night king to whip it up it will be more natural and easy.

    Regards,

    Doug

    Aye, I meant Bran, not Catelyn, targeted for assassination. And yeah, that dagger has been around. It also doesn't appear to be of Westerosi origin. I suspect that it played some role of significance in being able to kill the Night King (along with the strike being in the same location where he was first struck by the forest children, when they created him).

    I now remember Arya using it to kill Littlefinger, but had forgotten. (How? That was one of my all-time favorite scenes.)

    I have continuity issues with the dragons being injured. They are supposedly impervious to all but specific weapons/wounds - a bunch of wights carrying rusted steel, not included. Even so, they really only have to fear the weapons at King's Landing. Dany can use them to wipe out any armies in the field, even if they are injured.

    So you think Melisandre was merely choosing to die, and not forsaking her faith? She always held faith that the Lord of Light would fulfill his prophecy to end the eternal night - and it was clear during the battle of Winterfell that no such prophecy was being fulfilled. Perhaps I placed too much significance in her removing her amulet and robe, but to me, the act was symbolic.

    House Mormont is gone. Many of the heads of lesser houses are likewise gone, though some may yet have heirs.
     

    Libertarian01

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    Aye, I meant Bran, not Catelyn, targeted for assassination. And yeah, that dagger has been around. It also doesn't appear to be of Westerosi origin. I suspect that it played some role of significance in being able to kill the Night King (along with the strike being in the same location where he was first struck by the forest children, when they created him).

    I now remember Arya using it to kill Littlefinger, but had forgotten. (How? That was one of my all-time favorite scenes.)

    I have continuity issues with the dragons being injured. They are supposedly impervious to all but specific weapons/wounds - a bunch of wights carrying rusted steel, not included. Even so, they really only have to fear the weapons at King's Landing. Dany can use them to wipe out any armies in the field, even if they are injured.

    So you think Melisandre was merely choosing to die, and not forsaking her faith? She always held faith that the Lord of Light would fulfill his prophecy to end the eternal night - and it was clear during the battle of Winterfell that no such prophecy was being fulfilled. Perhaps I placed too much significance in her removing her amulet and robe, but to me, the act was symbolic.

    House Mormont is gone. Many of the heads of lesser houses are likewise gone, though some may yet have heirs.


    IIRC Caitlyn WAS involved. She was the one sitting with Bran when the assassin entered. She grabbed the dagger in her hand, severely cutting it to protect her son. Then somebody came in and whacked the assassin.

    As an avid AD&D player the dragons shouldn't have been affected badly. However, don't forget that the smaller dragon engaged in direct combat with the undead dragon and that could have severely damaged it.

    I think Melisandre knew her time was damn near up. Prior to the battle she was at, say, 100% lifeforce. When she set all the swords on fire she was dropped to 40% life force. When she stet the trench on fire she was dropped to 5% lifeforce. So by dawn she knew her time was nearly up. She had blown her life to help defend Winterfell. She (IMO) didn't want to waste away in a bed somewhere like an old woman, so she cast off whatever power was keeping her young and chose this way to die. She knew (IMO) that she didn't have more than a day or two left and took control of her own demise. That's how I see it. She basically turned off her own life support knowing it wouldn't do much good anymore anyways.

    I do love Arya more and more. People on her list should be TRULY worried. She is the only human being in the history of the world to have been touched by the night king and lived to tell about it - because she killed him. She single-handedly slaughtered the entirety of House Frey. She is probably one of the only people to have ever left the House of Black & White on HER terms.

    When you absolutely, positively have to kill every mother f****r in the room, accept no substitutes - send in Arya!:smileak:

    Regards,

    Doug

    PS - The Arya bit is just me ranting. She is one of the few characters from the book I loved from the beginning.
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    I'm not a book reader, but my wife is.

    I have a feeling that... a season or two back... book readers started to feel like the show really dropped in quality. I think that's because GRRM really gave a lot of depth to the characters, especially ones like Tyrion. The cleverness and whatnot... really doesn't exist anymore.

    Most of the writing of the past season or two really feels "pandery"... and I don't mean that too negatively. Just... the showrunners trying to wrap this up in the most entertaining way.

    To me, as someone torn between the source material and what the HBO show lead up to... it feels really shallow. I hate to say it feels rushed, because they've had so much time to make it all happen... but it does.

    Like I said earlier... Hey, here's the big bad guy... oh and now he's dead. Wait what? Really?

    I think things started to fall apart when they got into the magic stuff. It felt more genuine as a medieval opera than a show with sorcery and blatantly supernatural things.

    Ah well.

    My initial predictions for the final 3 episodes were total subversion of expectations.

    My predictions of the final 3 now are just predictable fanservice. And there's nothing wrong with that, necessarily.
     

    Libertarian01

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    I'm not a book reader, but my wife is.

    I have a feeling that... a season or two back... book readers started to feel like the show really dropped in quality. I think that's because GRRM really gave a lot of depth to the characters, especially ones like Tyrion. The cleverness and whatnot... really doesn't exist anymore.

    Most of the writing of the past season or two really feels "pandery"... and I don't mean that too negatively. Just... the showrunners trying to wrap this up in the most entertaining way.

    To me, as someone torn between the source material and what the HBO show lead up to... it feels really shallow. I hate to say it feels rushed, because they've had so much time to make it all happen... but it does.

    Like I said earlier... Hey, here's the big bad guy... oh and now he's dead. Wait what? Really?

    I think things started to fall apart when they got into the magic stuff. It felt more genuine as a medieval opera than a show with sorcery and blatantly supernatural things.

    Ah well.

    My initial predictions for the final 3 episodes were total subversion of expectations.

    My predictions of the final 3 now are just predictable fanservice. And there's nothing wrong with that, necessarily.


    You are spot on with about, well, everything. They have gutted the books from Season #1. There were LOTS more characters, plots, and subplots than have not been shown.

    There was an expedition to Dorn. There was Caitlyn Stark risen from the dead. There were several more important characters on the Wall.

    This is the problem with taking a large, complex story and trying to convert it to the screen. To get the "real feel" of GOT it should have been done with about 25 episodes per season, with each episode being at least 60 minutes long. This happens to many of the Stephen King books that I have read that were translated to the screen. The "feeling" gets lost.

    With GOT they kept only the biggest characters, and even there they cut pieces of them out to fit everything. They get the basic storyline but that's about it.

    In the House of Black & White Arya was blinded for her misbehavior, and near the end discovered that she could see through the eyes of animals. Imagine the little assassin with a power like that! Looking through the eyes of every rat and mouse in the house before going in. That simple but powerful ability has been gutted from her character on HBO.

    I think they focus too much on the great special effects and the grand set pieces instead of the importance of character building and storytelling. We're more interested in big dragons or robots than complex characters.

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Hawkeye

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    Frankly, I was kind of disappointed in episode 3. it was way too dark to pick out much on my tv screen most of the time. Guess that makes it easier of the CGI?
     

    ArcadiaGP

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    He was chilling with Bran.

    DqOUmUW.gif
     

    chipbennett

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    In the House of Black & White Arya was blinded for her misbehavior, and near the end discovered that she could see through the eyes of animals. Imagine the little assassin with a power like that! Looking through the eyes of every rat and mouse in the house before going in. That simple but powerful ability has been gutted from her character on HBO.

    Excellent example. In the books, it is clear that the Starks are all wargs (or have a propensity to warging). Bran wargs into Summer. Jon Snow wargs into Ghost. Arya wargs as you mention. Certainly, GRRM added that detail for a reason - and it has been completely glossed over in the HBO series. And there are lots of those kinds of things that are lost from the books.
     

    chipbennett

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    Am I the only one on Earth that hasn’t seen GoT??

    No. There is an entire cadre of people on social media who feel the need to declare to the world their ambivalence toward Game of Thrones. It is so unimportant to them that they feel compelled to talk about how unimportant it is to them.
     

    deo62

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    No. There is an entire cadre of people on social media who feel the need to declare to the world their ambivalence toward Game of Thrones. It is so unimportant to them that they feel compelled to talk about how unimportant it is to them.
    I tried to watch a couple of times but I think if you don’t watch from the beginning you are lost.
     
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