Found a coyote den with pups

[ArcadiaGP]

Meh... really comes down to your lifestyle and whatnot, I guess. I wouldn't kill a den of pups, seems like a ****ty thing to do... but I'm not a person that has land like that, and I'm not a person that has dealt with the repercussions of coyotes. So, OP would know better than I.

OP did nothing wrong. Some of us may not like it, and others may agree with it. We're all different.

 

[iChokePeople]

I was not COMPARING coyotes to native Americans, I simply said that some of the COMMENTS sound the same as those used in the past - "if you can live with them I am OK with that. Some of us can not"

Still quite a stretch to pull that into this issue.

 

[jdmack79]

I snipe the adults anytime I can but I would NOT mess with a litter if I stumbled upon it. Thats just me....Im cold as ice when I have to be but I like being able to sleep at night and look at myself in the mirror every day without having to look down in shame.

But its your property, do what you want.

If the coyotes were with an acquaintance who knocked on your door in the middle of the night, you would have had no problem shooting them.

 

[RockofStrength]

Good shoot. Coyotes are vermin at best, and in my corner of the backwoods they've grown bold enough to stare me down when I confronted them on the driveway. And that's setting aside the damage caused to my flocks. Yes the puppies were cute, but better quick death by bullet now than a potentially drawn out death by guard dog or bullet when they come tearing into my animals.

 

[Trigger Time]

This thread shows why some folks SHOULD be stewards of the land and other people BELONG in subdivisions and apartments. (People who have had to build what they have and work hard to maintain it have a different understanding. A lot of city folk have a disconnect with people who've grown up in the country or live there now. I grew up killing any coyote we saw. As early as I could hold a rifle I was shooting them. I never enjoy killing any animal really. Even hunting (when I could do it physically) I had great respect for the animal that gave up its life for sustinance.
Coyotes are killers of everything! They even pose a danger to children. I don't understand why some people see a difference between coyote pups and the full size adults? These aren't domestic animals. They are natural born killers.

 

[bwframe]

This thread shows why some folks SHOULD be stewards of the land and other people BELONG in subdivisions and apartments. (People who have had to build what they have and work hard to maintain it have a different understanding. A lot of city folk have a disconnect with people who've grown up in the country or live there now. I grew up killing any coyote we saw. As early as I could hold a rifle I was shooting them. I never enjoy killing any animal really. Even hunting (when I could do it physically) I had great respect for the animal that gave up its life for sustinance.
Coyotes are killers of everything! They even pose a danger to children. I don't understand why some people see a difference between coyote pups and the full size adults? These aren't domestic animals. They are natural born killers.

Yep, ditto!

To go along with that, ponder this silly little fact that happens right under the city folks noses:
How Many Dogs are Euthanized Each Year? - Ask.com Answers

 

[remauto1187]

See rem, now que is educated on the subject and understands. He doesn't question people's moral for trying to protect their pets, kids, and other property. Maybe you can learn too

I didnt question anything...I merely stated my opinion on the event and how I would react. But you are welcome to make up shi^ as you go along.

 

[findingZzero]

Bees are natural born pollinators. Coyotes do what they were designed to do. 'Natural born killers' reminds me of that Woody Harrelson Juliette Lewis movie. Not nice people. That's what happens when you don't 'think of the children.' Natural born killers are called predators. And there is nothing evil about that, unless you are the prey. I guess you are trying to convey that they are not cute little dogs. I get that. I don't like to kill things. I just relocate them to that evil neighbors place. I guess you could call me a natural born (spiteful) relocator.

 

[Jason R. Bruce]

The OP can do what he wants, he's a big boy, and it's his land. However, those of you blaming the coyotes for all the loss of game need to look at us destroying habitat as the MAIN culprit. Instead of killing off predators, I have worked on habitat and food supplies on my farm. I have more quail, rabbits, turkeys, and deer on my farm than most hunting preserves. Yet I have large packs of coyotes that feast freely on these same animals. The more habitat that we destroy, the less natural food coyotes have, and the more they move into populated areas, and the more they feast on our pets and livestock. it's all a matter of balance. Some of these posts sound like something people would have said about native Americams in the 1800's (just replace "coyote" with "native Americans" in the posts) AKA the battle of "Sand Creek"- remember "nits name lice". Just something to think about.

Another fairly accurate post. I take a slightly different viewpoint, but agree that habitat sets a balance. That habitat is being greatly reduced with rising gran prices and coyote, like us, are a high end and adaptable predator. They’re not the kind to “take a loss” so they simply adapt, expand their range and prosper as their environment changes around them. The things that do “lose” are the prey species. They take it from all sides, and above, when their habitat is stifled. I believe aside from habitat loss, the combination of domestic dogs/cats and birds of prey are disrupting wildlife numbers more than coyotes. Coyotes are a factor but they are a calculated risk to surrounding wildlife, unlike the dogs/cats/raptors that have very few limitations in their ability to pillage an area.

I believe good coyote habitat will hold coyotes. This is different than the belief coyotes are being “forced” into new territories by habitat change. I believe if you killed every coyote in Marion County today, surrounding coyotes would sense the void in vocal response from that area and compensate litter sizes so dispersal would backfill that “coyote country” with a suitable number of coyotes. No more, no less. This has been proven in the western states where war has been declared on coyotes for decades. If the trapping, hunting and aerial gunning stops you’ll see coyote populations rebound to capacity in a couple breeding cycles. Coyotes are not like other game species we’re familiar with.

If a landowner is concerned about small game, deer and turkey numbers the best thing they can do is leave the outside 16 rows of their agricultural ground fallow. Or better yet, plant it in warm season grasses and low browse vegetation. This change would yield better numbers of rabbit, quail, deer & turkey than the most aggressive predator control efforts. If this habitat improvement was coupled with a responsible predator management program, the results would be astounding in 2-3 years. Again, this has been proven time and time again but the value of grain is making it hard to keep landowners committed.

A year ago I was introduced to a flock of sheep being ravaged by coyotes. Livestock depredation is one of the few things that get me to hunt summertime coyotes anymore, so I came in and applied enough pressure to stop the damage. The producer was losing 3-6 sheep a week and that came to an abrupt halt once I came in. Once furbearer season came in, I made my first stand of the year in that sheep pasture and killed a red fox and coyote about two minutes & 50 yards apart. The rest of the winter yielded very few furbearers within ½ mile of the flock.
Knowing den sites were likely to replicate the previous years locations, I gave the coyotes January & February to pair up and settle down. On my last hunt of the season, March 14[SUP]th[/SUP], I went back into that area and methodically called across 9 landowners. I killed six coyotes, three mated pairs, in two hours. Every coyote I saw went in the truck. This effectively throttled the coyote numbers within ½ mile of the flock and neighboring coyotes were already locked down and committed to their distant den sites.

This morning at 9:30am the sheep producer made a grisly discovery and immediately sent me photos: unfortunately depleting his coyote numbers cannot stop depredation. This is the work of a great horned owl. In October I’ll begin picking off transients that have moved in and next spring I’ll whack any females that lock down too close for comfort. Sometimes all you can do, is all you can do.

 

[churchmouse]

Another fairly accurate post. I take a slightly different viewpoint, but agree that habitat sets a balance. That habitat is being greatly reduced with rising gran prices and coyote, like us, are a high end and adaptable predator. They’re not the kind to “take a loss” so they simply adapt, expand their range and prosper as their environment changes around them. The things that do “lose” are the prey species. They take it from all sides, and above, when their habitat is stifled. I believe aside from habitat loss, the combination of domestic dogs/cats and birds of prey are disrupting wildlife numbers more than coyotes. Coyotes are a factor but they are a calculated risk to surrounding wildlife, unlike the dogs/cats/raptors that have very few limitations in their ability to pillage an area.

I believe good coyote habitat will hold coyotes. This is different than the belief coyotes are being “forced” into new territories by habitat change. I believe if you killed every coyote in Marion County today, surrounding coyotes would sense the void in vocal response from that area and compensate litter sizes so dispersal would backfill that “coyote country” with a suitable number of coyotes. No more, no less. This has been proven in the western states where war has been declared on coyotes for decades. If the trapping, hunting and aerial gunning stops you’ll see coyote populations rebound to capacity in a couple breeding cycles. Coyotes are not like other game species we’re familiar with.

If a landowner is concerned about small game, deer and turkey numbers the best thing they can do is leave the outside 16 rows of their agricultural ground fallow. Or better yet, plant it in warm season grasses and low browse vegetation. This change would yield better numbers of rabbit, quail, deer & turkey than the most aggressive predator control efforts. If this habitat improvement was coupled with a responsible predator management program, the results would be astounding in 2-3 years. Again, this has been proven time and time again but the value of grain is making it hard to keep landowners committed.

A year ago I was introduced to a flock of sheep being ravaged by coyotes. Livestock depredation is one of the few things that get me to hunt summertime coyotes anymore, so I came in and applied enough pressure to stop the damage. The producer was losing 3-6 sheep a week and that came to an abrupt halt once I came in. Once furbearer season came in, I made my first stand of the year in that sheep pasture and killed a red fox and coyote about two minutes & 50 yards apart. The rest of the winter yielded very few furbearers within ½ mile of the flock.
Knowing den sites were likely to replicate the previous years locations, I gave the coyotes January & February to pair up and settle down. On my last hunt of the season, March 14[SUP]th[/SUP], I went back into that area and methodically called across 9 landowners. I killed six coyotes, three mated pairs, in two hours. Every coyote I saw went in the truck. This effectively throttled the coyote numbers within ½ mile of the flock and neighboring coyotes were already locked down and committed to their distant den sites.

This morning at 9:30am the sheep producer made a grisly discovery and immediately sent me photos: unfortunately depleting his coyote numbers cannot stop depredation. This is the work of a great horned owl. In October I’ll begin picking off transients that have moved in and next spring I’ll whack any females that lock down too close for comfort. Sometimes all you can do, is all you can do.

Have you seen much Ferrell dog activity???

 

[yote hunter]

Job well done kill'm all , they are no more then deer killers..... Proud of you for doing what need to be done.... Thank you !!!!! Cool pics too...

 

[possumpacker]

great post jason, thanks for telling it like it really is. the number of coyotes i take in this area directly affects the turkey population and has been proven and the turkey hunters will swear to it. to late for the grey fox been gone for 20 years, cant eliminate coyote only controll. if a nucular holocost should occur you can bet a pregnant coyote will crawl out from under a rock to survive and will adapt

 

[Jason R. Bruce]

Sure. Dogs are a huge factor in sheep depredation in this area, on a more widespread basis than coyotes in my opinion.

I've called predators (coyotes, fox, bobcats, lions) in sheep pastures in TX, OK, AZ, CO & WY and coyotes are the main culprit out there, but back here... I think as many lambs are lost to dogs & birds as coyotes. Admittedly that's a loaded statement. The producers that lose sheep to coyotes, lose a lot of sheep to a few coyotes. Once the resident coyotes lock-in on that flock as a resource, they'll milk it hard until you ventilate them. On the flip side, nearly every sheep producer loses a few sheep to dogs... so statistically dogs are a huge problem here.

Dog kills, relating to sheep, are much more gruesome and entirely wasteful thrill kills. You learn to spot a dog kill from a good distance, it's a blood bath and sometimes requires putting adult sheep down. Coyote kills are usually precise & swift and focused on lambs. The exception being July/August kills where pups are learning to hunt, which can result in a handful of lambs with mangled faces and swollen throats. It takes them a few trials to exert the right amount of aggression & power to kill their prey (on deer, sheep or rabbits).

A few years ago I had a sheep producer ask me to put down a couple mortally mangled lambs for him before heading deeper for the offending coyotes. I wasn't about to discharge 22-250 rounds into his flock so I set out on foot. After hearing the crack of my denning hammer he said "I guess it's true... to a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Nature can be ugly, it isn't for everybody.

 

[Jason R. Bruce]

Thanks guys.

Possumpacker,

Funny you mention the turkeys. I'll get some things together and spin a turkey-predation related yarn tomorrow... with some cool pictures.

 

[Que]

This thread shows why some folks SHOULD be stewards of the land and other people BELONG in subdivisions and apartments. (People who have had to build what they have and work hard to maintain it have a different understanding. A lot of city folk have a disconnect with people who've grown up in the country or live there now. I grew up killing any coyote we saw. As early as I could hold a rifle I was shooting them. I never enjoy killing any animal really. Even hunting (when I could do it physically) I had great respect for the animal that gave up its life for sustinance.
Coyotes are killers of everything! They even pose a danger to children. I don't understand why some people see a difference between coyote pups and the full size adults? These aren't domestic animals. They are natural born killers.

This makes no sense. Just because someone posts about killing a litter of coyotes doesn't PROVE they are good stewards of land. What if he uses trees as backstops or takes deer in the spring? Would you still consider him a good steward of the land? There is no "disconnect" between city and rural dwellers. You are only using this as an opportunity to feign some kind of false superiority. What this thread has done is be a teaching opportunity for some of us who are ignorant about the subject. Now we know.

 

[Zoub]

Having observed Anatolian Shepard dogs for the past year and during what was the coldest, longest winter on record here in WI, I will have one or two but not where I live at the moment. Hunting Coyotes to protect livestock without an Anatolian is like owning a gun for self defense and living in a house with no deadbolts.

There are other breeds and frankly an Anatolian may not be well suited to Indiana but from what I observed, they do proactively seek out predators. I would not want to be waist deep in snow and have one of them fast approaching me.

 

[MiNDRiVE]

These animals are not stupid. They are cunning and opportunistic. A cat is a meal and seen as such. A small dog the same. They have been seen here in Speedway and we saw some tracks in the snow last winter.

I saw one near on ramp to 465 and crawfordsville rd north east side of the highway.. Right in that big clearing that used to be some shady motel. He was just walking through without a care in the world.

 

[Trigger Time]

This makes no sense. Just because someone posts about killing a litter of coyotes doesn't PROVE they are good stewards of land. What if he uses trees as backstops or takes deer in the spring? Would you still consider him a good steward of the land? There is no "disconnect" between city and rural dwellers. You are only using this as an opportunity to feign some kind of false superiority. What this thread has done is be a teaching opportunity for some of us who are ignorant about the subject. Now we know.

Oh yeah that's what I did alright. Once again your post misses the mark.

 

[caverjamie]

We've definitely got plenty of coyotes around. On the other hand, we also have plenty of deer around, so I wouldn't use that as a justification. I'm happy to eat deer, but I've never got into hunting. I'd like to, just because I hate deer so much. They decimate tree seedlings, so I wouldn't mind exacting some personal revenge. (oh yeah, and one of them had the nerve to run into my Jeep ) Coyotes don't attack tree seedlings, so I guess I dislike them less and would prefer they kill more deer.

 

[caverjamie]

Bears don't impact coyotes. The only thing that really does is wolves.

Ah ha, that's what we need down here in Indiana, some wolves. Am I right?? I bet those are some cute pups.