For those of you who support abortion...

[HmDBrian]

A fetus can have a heartbeat as early as 4-5 weeks

Yea, you and Annie are correct, I didn't know that. I could of sworn it was 8-10. Thanks for the info. Kind of changes my perspective on the situation a bit. I was under the same impression as bogwalker.

Here is a link for anyone that thought otherwise as I did.
Fetal development week by week | Pregnancy images | BabyCenter

 

[BogWalker]

Denied, not murdered.

So we differ only when we believe it's allowed. What's the difference? If birth control isn't used you have a kid. If you don't have an abortion you have a kid.

 

[rwhitmore8]

First of all this thread is ridiculous. What that guy did is wrong, an illegal. At that point is is no longer considered an abortion.

You can't use that to justify why abortions should be outlawed. If you do then you are no better than the people trying to pass an assault weapons ban for the reasons they are in congress right now.

Everyone has their opinions, but if you take your religious beliefs out of the pictures and use pure rationapity how can you honestly be against an abortion. Most take place before 12 weeks or in the first trimester, before the fetus is bigger than a bean and has no acutal features whatsoever. No ones killing born children and cutting their spinal chords legally get real.

And you tell me it is better to bring an unwanted child into this world where no one can support them or give tm the love they deserve or wind up spending their youth in the abomination we call the foster care system. , which has singal handedly been the cause of many traumatized crazed unstable humans?Y ou think its fair yo a girl who was brutally raped to have to bring her attackers child into this world, only to spend the rest of her life in an undeserved misery? Put yourself in their shoes and tell me you still feel the same.

Please get a better example if you want to justify an argument. Not this mumbo jumbo tabloid extremist crap.

 

[ModernGunner]

The topic here really is whether or not THIS Doctor is a scumbag. It would appear so from THAT article, but I have to question whether the 'reporter', Chapman, has a personal agenda. Certainly the picture of the dead baby does NOT jibe with the description in the article, which leads me to believe there IS a personal agenda at play here.

I question the agenda whenever I read something from the lefties OR the righties, particularly so when it's presented in an 'outraged' manner. IS it an 'outrage' or is it not? Dunno, yet. Fair's fair.

I wholeheartedly believe that Gosnell is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. So, I'll await the final verdict before making a judgment.

 

[Bunnykid68]

So we differ only when we believe it's allowed. What's the difference? If birth control isn't used you have a kid. If you don't have an abortion you have a kid.

Makes no sense at all. If there is no conception there is no new life created.

 

[Bunnykid68]

First of all this thread is ridiculous. What that guy did is wrong, an illegal. At that point is is no longer considered an abortion.

You can't use that to justify why abortions should be outlawed. If you do then you are no better than the people trying to pass an assault weapons ban for the reasons they are in congress right now.

Everyone has their opinions, but if you take your religious beliefs out of the pictures and use pure rationapity how can you honestly be against an abortion. Most take place before 12 weeks or in the first trimester, before the fetus is bigger than a bean and has no acutal features whatsoever. No ones killing born children and cutting their spinal chords legally get real.

And you tell me it is better to bring an unwanted child into this world where no one can support them or give tm the love they deserve or wind up spending their youth in the abomination we call the foster care system. , which has singal handedly been the cause of many traumatized crazed unstable humans?Y ou think its fair yo a girl who was brutally raped to have to bring her attackers child into this world, only to spend the rest of her life in an undeserved misery? Put yourself in their shoes and tell me you still feel the same.

Please get a better example if you want to justify an argument. Not this mumbo jumbo tabloid extremist crap.

Take religious beliefs out and it is still the killing of a child.

 

[tyrajam]

First of all this thread is ridiculous. What that guy did is wrong, an illegal. At that point is is no longer considered an abortion.

You can't use that to justify why abortions should be outlawed. If you do then you are no better than the people trying to pass an assault weapons ban for the reasons they are in congress right now.

Everyone has their opinions, but if you take your religious beliefs out of the pictures and use pure rationapity how can you honestly be against an abortion. Most take place before 12 weeks or in the first trimester, before the fetus is bigger than a bean and has no acutal features whatsoever. No ones killing born children and cutting their spinal chords legally get real.

And you tell me it is better to bring an unwanted child into this world where no one can support them or give tm the love they deserve or wind up spending their youth in the abomination we call the foster care system. , which has singal handedly been the cause of many traumatized crazed unstable humans?Y ou think its fair yo a girl who was brutally raped to have to bring her attackers child into this world, only to spend the rest of her life in an undeserved misery? Put yourself in their shoes and tell me you still feel the same.

Please get a better example if you want to justify an argument. Not this mumbo jumbo tabloid extremist crap.

So much fail here. Not one single post brought up religious belief, you need to google "strawman". You are correct that most abortions take place before 12 weeks, but you are incorrect that "cutting the spinal cords legally" isn't happening. In reality, 14 states allow late term abortions for any reason. Obama voted against giving children born alive medical help, and just this week, a planned parenthood lobbyist was in Florida arguing against their born alive law. It is real, and it is happening.
Also, let me know where all of these unwanted babies are, because the waiting line to adopt a baby takes years and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
As far as using better examples, about 1% of all abortions are because of rape or incest, and 95% are just for birth control. Talk about using tabloid extremist examples!

 

[rwhitmore8]

So much fail here. Not one single post brought up religious belief, you need to google "strawman". You are correct that most abortions take place before 12 weeks, but you are incorrect that "cutting the spinal cords legally" isn't happening. In reality, 14 states allow late term abortions for any reason. Obama voted against giving children born alive medical help, and just this week, a planned parenthood lobbyist was in Florida arguing against their born alive law. It is real, and it is happening.
Also, let me know where all of these unwanted babies are, because the waiting line to adopt a baby takes years and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
As far as using better examples, about 1% of all abortions are because of rape or incest, and 95% are just for birth control. Talk about using tabloid extremist examples!

If anything is failing it is your facts. Do you even know what is considered a late term abortion? Or do you just read things online and make up your own ideas? Late term refers to an abortion taking place most commonly after 20 weeks. The only legal methods of going about this involves terminating the fetus before it is ever removed from the womb. Any form of post birth abortion is illegal. I promise you. No matter what you think or what slanderous things you may have heard about planned parenthood and what they do youre wrong i am sorry.

I do not care what the percentages of abortions that were rape related are. 1% is still 1% at the end of the day. Thats still a number of lives that would be affected. And I do not care what the wait time is for adoption. That means nothing. Talk to me when you have experience being an orphan. Talk to me when you get bounced around home to home, split up from your siblings, get stuck in homes with abusive drunks just using you to collect a check from the government. Talk to me then.

 

[zippy23]

FACT: SCIENCE DEFINES a fetus as LIFE.
FACT: SCIENCE DEFINES a CELL as LIFE
FACT: SCIENCE DEFINES a species as everything that a 1 day old fertalized egg IS
FACT: religion obviously defines it all as life

So: either you dont believe in science, or you dont believe in religion. This makes you a 2 sided MORON if you are OK with abortion. FACT: you are a hypocrite if you are FOR abortion since YOUR MOM BIRTHED YOU, YOU FREAKIN PATHETIC MORONS.

 

[zippy23]

The easiest idea is that NO ONE IS FOR ABORTION WHO IS ALIVE. their MOM did not ABORT their kid. So, no one ALIVE can be for abortion, since their mom didnt KILL THEM. How stupid do you have to be to want to be killed and DENIED life?? i thought the democrat party was about compassion? WHY DO THEY WANT TO KILL BABIES??? they voted for gender selected abortions as well. THIS IS THE REAL WAR ON WOMEN. time to grow up liberals. you liberals are SICK.

 

[zippy23]

I would REALLY like to know why liberals want to END BABIES LIVES while letting MURDERS out of prison after 25 years?!?!?!!? why end babies lives yet allow murderous thugs out of prison? THIS IS HOW STUPID YOU ARE

 

[Ericpwp]

I feel sick.

 

[netsecurity]

So we differ only when we believe it's allowed. What's the difference? If birth control isn't used you have a kid. If you don't have an abortion you have a kid.

I'll tell you what the difference is, fate, cause and effect, responsibility, and morality. If you prevent accidental conception by wearing a condom, then you have not made a baby, and have no responsibility. But if you made the decision to forego the condom and conceived, then that is your fate. If your baby is down syndrome, that is your fate, it is your cross to bear, and not something to murder your way out of. People just weasel out of their responsibilities by murder, and the only reason they even consider that is because the gov makes it sound like no big deal.

Look at the pictures in this link, this is clearly infanticide. It is a very big deal. Maybe you support early term abortions, but I bet if you saw those pictures you'd be just as outraged. Different method, same result=murder. Whether the doctor uses a vacuum Quisinart, a hammer claw to the skull, or cuts the spinal cord with scissors from the back of the neck, it is unfathomable.

Why is this relevant you ask? Because we have the Second Amendment to protect our life and liberty. Anyone who chants they support the Second Amendment, while also supporting infanticide, is a walking contradiction, and supports neither life nor liberty. If we as a nation do not protect the weakest and most innocent among us, then we are no nation worthy of blessing.

 

[dross]

There is a moment when the sperm penetrates the egg. There is a moment when the child draws its first breath outside its mother's body. Somewhere in between a lump of cells becomes a human being with rights.

I have no problem with the morning after pill, which ends a pregnancy after conception.

I have a problem with an elective abortion on a baby that can live outside the womb.

I don't understand the people who say that a fertilized egg is the exact same as an adult human.

I don't understand the people who say that an almost born baby is the same as a microscopic grouping of cells.

Somewhere in between lies a reasonable policy.

 

[Ruffnek]

This makes me want to puke...

 

[zippy23]

NO WHERE IN BETWEEN LIES ANY TYPE OF GOV'T POLICY. science as well as religion PROVES that its murder by societies definition, abortion is no more than a democrat voting block. the majority of abortion, say in new york(or anywhere else), are blacks, they abort like its contraception, yet they pay nothing for it, then vote for the guys providing it for free on our tax money. its sick, its about nothing more than votes, using good people's tax money. This is FACT. so sad. why would democrat politicians want to kill their future voters? They need the votes NOW.

 

[rwhitmore8]

Bugs are living, but you will still kill them in your home. Weeds are living, but you will still spray and pull them which kills them. I'm assuming you are not a vegan, so you are eating dead animals. Your house is made from wood which comes from trees which were living, so if you are going to pull that science religion b.s. get a better argument, and get real. If you're so pro life then quit being such a hypocrite.

 

[Compatriot G]

We have murdered approximately 55 million children since 1973. In any other other context, this would be considered genocide.

 

[Smokepole]

There's a point where a fetus really has no life signs. Not pulse, not even a nervous system, no thought no feeling.I see little difference in an abortion at that point, and using birth control in the first place. Either way you've prevented life, and in both cases there was no cognitive function yet.

I strongly believe that the cases in which abortion is legal should be limited. Not only does it need to happen before any real life begins, but only in cases of rape, incest, and in which the fetus would die anyways, have severely impaired quality of life, or would pose a major health risk for the mother. If it's a healthy child created legitimately you've made your choice and should carry it to the full. Nobody forced you to have sex. Children are a well known side effect of sex. If you aren't prepared for a child you really should use contraceptives or better yet abstinence.

Beginning with middle school biology we are taught that one-celled organisms, Amoeba and Paramecium are the most basic forms of LIFE. And that (if the evolutionists are right) all life on the planet evolved from these one-celled life forms. And scientists are desperately hoping to find these or similar as evidence of LIFE on Mars and other planets. And if they do we won't be able to get away from the PROOF that life exists or did exist away form earth. So a fetus HAS (exhibits) signs of life from the moment of conception throughout it's development to zygote to fetus to breathing infant. From the moment of conception it begins splitting and multiplying cells, developing into a human child.

So, my guess is that you are referring to VITAL SIGNS and not signs of life. And to that, go back to biology again, a human fetus develops a working spinal column, cortex and beating heart at between 6 and 8 weeks. This means that it has at least a rudimentary functioning nervous system. All before the end of the first trimester. So, if we are to believe everything that we are taught about LIFE from grade school science forward, life begins at conception and it is and will be a human baby that will develop into an adult human.

Here I think you are fundamentally wrong. There is a huge difference between the two. In the case of contraception, you are not allowing conception to occur and are preventing a pregnancy (Life). In the case of abortion, conception has taken place, a human life has begun and is developing until that life is forcibly extinguished by outside intervention. DEFINITELY NOT prevention.

Here your playing God. In the cases of rape and incest, I understand that mother was an unwilling partner and many (most?) women would not be able to handle the weight, distress and psychological impact of their position. It is the ultimate Catch-22 and would have to be up to the mother and family. But when you talk about impaired quality of life and the like, once you go down that road, you risk the slippery slope that leads to picking and choosing, "oh no, our baby will run a high risk for Parkinson's, or Hodgkins, or (take your pick), so let's just stop this here and try again later" and the whole designer baby thing. Abortion becomes contraception. And as we have seen in other areas of human nature, once a precedent has been set . . . there are those that see it as their job to push the envelope because "everyone should have that right."

On the rest it appears that we agree.

 

[Smokepole]

Bugs are living, but you will still kill them in your home. Weeds are living, but you will still spray and pull them which kills them. I'm assuming you are not a vegan, so you are eating dead animals. Your house is made from wood which comes from trees which were living, so if you are going to pull that science religion b.s. get a better argument, and get real. If you're so pro life then quit being such a hypocrite.

Soooooo, your argument is that human babies are the same as insect pests and weeds or we should be eating them???? I think you are the one who needs a better argument. That has got to be THE most intellectually bereft argument that I have ever heard.