For the Anti-RTW folks.

[Sigasaurus]

@ Hooky heck yeah I think about it all the time and I am constantly reminded by my coworkers and management. I mean when a guy that has been welding and fabricating for 30 years tells you that he does't know how you do the things you do the thought crosses my mind. The only problem with this is I still require funding and I have to trust that the individual I would negotiate my terms with is honorable. As it stands now I can't be fired b/c I slow down or my eyesight starts fading. Who is to say I give the next 15 years of my life to a person/company and then they decide I am no longer needed. I just worry about that aspect when contemplating a move like that. If I could find an individual that I trust and respect with the finances and vison I would do it in a heartbeat. To put this in perspective I completed a mobile substation restoration this year and saved my company over 750k (horn toot) and yet a 58 yr old crazy cat lady made probably 20k more than me this year. Stinks, but I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

[hooky]

@ Hooky heck yeah I think about it all the time and I am constantly reminded by my coworkers and management. I mean when a guy that has been welding and fabricating for 30 years tells you that he does't know how you do the things you do the thought crosses my mind. The only problem with this is I still require funding and I have to trust that the individual I would negotiate my terms with is honorable. As it stands now I can't be fired b/c I slow down or my eyesight starts fading. Who is to say I give the next 15 years of my life to a person/company and then they decide I am no longer needed. I just worry about that aspect when contemplating a move like that. If I could find an individual that I trust and respect with the finances and vison I would do it in a heartbeat. To put this in perspective I completed a mobile substation restoration this year and saved my company over 750k (horn toot) and yet a 58 yr old crazy cat lady made probably 20k more than me this year. Stinks, but I feel I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

You seem like a bright guy who can communicate well. Have you ever thought about doing something on the side and growing it to the point where you can tell your employer that they're fired?

I have more than a few friends and family members like yourself. People who put out regardless of the situation and take pride in their work. Those that have worked a Plan B and made it Plan A wouldn't ever go back to their old job. FWIW, it just as frustrating to me to hear a guy like you talk, as it is to listen to some POS who is a leech. Neither situation is fair, but I'm only rooting for one of them. I hope you're able to get what you want and deserve out of the situation.

 

[patience0830]

With a hundred year shelf life for Twinkies you can stock up and have them long after the world ends.

I'm hitting the day old store and filling the freezer on the way home.


AND now that we're back on the real topic. . . . .

 

[patience0830]

Somebody is a GENIUS!

 

[hornadylnl]

I can understand why a company doesn't want to pay an individual $70,000 a year to screw in a bolt or stack a box. I just feel if the legislation was more specific and the politicians would take the time to examine the laws as a whole it would be acceptable. I mean hell people say I am overpaid. I made $70,000 last year. I am a journeyman millwright, a journeyman electrician, and have a college degree. I completed 2 apprenticeships and 2 years of college. Carry 3 welding certifications and thousands of hours of on the job experience. In reality I am grossly underpaid and my union is the cause of this. If my union were to disappear I could make a killing, that is until I am old and broke down. I support trade unions 100% and even though I am trapped in my wages I accept this for the security and protection. IMHO it is all a crap shoot when it comes to the debate of union/non-union. I see the pros and cons I just don't trust individuals to do what is right when given the opportunity.

I made over $74k last year. I have a high school education and am a non union industrial maintenance man. Hopefully I'll be in the automation shop in a few weeks and getting more free training.

The entire production line all the way up to the managers I support tell me regularly I'm underpaid.

 

[warangelcometh]

Sheep !!! Pension, liabilities - blah blah blah. The same old bs. You do realize that this is just another bankruptcy filing in the several that the company has filed over the last 50 years. Nothing new - Big business doing what big business does best. Finding loop holes to use and abuse in order to line the pockets of the "private" owners. In their last bankruptcy in 2009 - the union members took wage concessions in order to help but did the board of exec's or management take any cuts ????? That answer would be NO !!!

 

[ATM]

But where are the Twinkies?

 

[UncleMike]

But where are the Twinkies?

Krogers is having a buy one, get one free, promotion on all Hostess products right now.

 

[Wild Deuce]

I don't have time to read through everything already posted. I think I've made it clear how I feel about unions .... however ....

My question, was the company [STRIKE]cooking[/STRIKE] baking more than twinkies? ... perhaps they were cooking the books? I don't understand how a company or (government) can "owe" a pension fund money? Weren't they meeting their obligations all along? The workers certainly were seeing their pension obligations coming out of their checks.

What about the big union bosses? How could they not stay on top of the status of their pension fund? Was someone somewhere greasing their palms too? What about the union members? How could they elect such irresponsible and flawed leadership that would allow their pension fund to be jeopardized?

 

[fireblade]

why can't Hostess get a defense contract .......sponge round Twinkies ,shotgun Twinkie bags......cluster bomb twinkies.....snowball paint ball riot guns.......thats how to restructure......

 

[Lex Concord]

It's called a contractual obligation. The employees worked under the terms of an agreement with the understanding that upon retirement they would receive a pension. Also if you would so kindly point out where the government is given the capacity or ability to deem a collective bargaining contract as a criminal offense. Last time I checked the government wasn't in the buisness of modifying or manipulating contracts.

No, no contractual obligations were set aside in the takeover of Government Motors (hmmm...who was helped most there...non-union management?),of course not.

They're not supposed to, but they do, and they pick winners and losers all the time. That's what legislation is about.

Allowing closed shops it picking the union (not the union members) as the winner.

The pendulum swings again. Right to work will pass in Indian, and it will be signed.

 

[Cavman]

What sucks is my dad works for this company. And years ago the employees gave up huge amounts of benfits and took paycuts to save the company.. He is not happy that all he sacrificed was in vain

 

[Lex Concord]

I don't have time to read through everything already posted. I think I've made it clear how I feel about unions .... however ....

My question, was the company [STRIKE]cooking[/STRIKE] baking more than twinkies? ... perhaps they were cooking the books? I don't understand how a company or (government) can "owe" a pension fund money? Weren't they meeting their obligations all along? The workers certainly were seeing their pension obligations coming out of their checks.

What about the big union bosses? How could they not stay on top of the status of their pension fund? Was someone somewhere greasing their palms too? What about the union members? How could they elect such irresponsible and flawed leadership that would allow their pension fund to be jeopardized?

Even the postal union's pensions aren't fully funded (i.e. funded to cover all future obligations)...contributions are made over time based on anticipated needs...retirements at a level higher than anticipated over a given time frame can leave gaps...each plan is set up differently.

If the funds are lacking, maybe the union bosses were too much on top of it, a la Hoffa

 

[Wild Deuce]

Even the postal union's pensions aren't fully funded (i.e. funded to cover all future obligations)...contributions are made over time based on anticipated needs...retirements at a level higher than anticipated over a given time frame can leave gaps...each plan is set up differently.

If the funds are lacking, maybe the union bosses were too much on top of it, a la Hoffa

So who's to blame? ... the "greedy" corporations? or the workers that were promised the moon but never thought about how the moon would be delivered?

 

[Sigasaurus]

No, no contractual obligations were set aside in the takeover of Government Motors (hmmm...who was helped most there...non-union management?),of course not.

They're not supposed to, but they do, and they pick winners and losers all the time. That's what legislation is about.

Allowing closed shops it picking the union (not the union members) as the winner.

The pendulum swings again. Right to work will pass in Indian, and it will be signed.

General Motors/UAW isn't even the topic of discussion and tends to be every anti-union supporters crutch. And yes unions negotiate a contract with the company and last time i checked they were binding. Or at least for the average citizen. FYI General Motors re-payed the debt. The only automaker that hasn't re-payed the debt is Chrysler. Ford is a UAW company and they didn't take the bail out. Still have negative input on those union workers that took concessions and aided Ford in their time of need? Unions aren't full of vile and evil people and they tend to do a lot for the communities they are located in. I have worked on both sides of the fence and honestly there are immature retards that work for both sides and those tend to be the people that label the group as a whole. If you look at it logically then it is nothing more than stereotyping and a form of blind racism. Maybe if the members of this forum would stop bashing the unions and the members and actually look at the individuals they are labeling then there wouldn't be so much hatred. Basically the majority of union members are honest, taxpaying, hardworking people and could care less if you are pro or anti-union. I mean heck unions still give felons an opportunity to pursue a fruitful career and promote equality. Is it fair to bash them over a career choice? Maybe "Right to Work" is the cats ass, but I'll bet you this. If it is the worst mistake this state ever makes then none of the people tooting their horn will ever admit it when or if it comes crashing down and I would bet my life on it there will be a way for all the supporters to blame the unions. Typical American society: blame african-americans for crime, Arabs for hating America, and unions for ruining their jobs. When in reality crime by numbers is equal, if people invaded America and killed hundreds of thousands people we would hate them too, and if it weren't for unions everyone would be working 15 hour days with no OSHA, benefits, or workers rights. It is a well known fact through the history of the world "never willingly give something up for you will never gain what is lost without bloodshed". It all looks great on paper and I hope that it does work as advertised, but history shows our government is famous for making the wrong choice for the people they are supposed to represent. Honestly I hope I have to eat my words and will do so gladly. Done with this topic I get to heated so good day and happy travels.

 

[jsgolfman]

Krogers is having a buy one, get one free, promotion on all Hostess products right now.

Don't say things like that unless you mean it.

 

[Stschil]

I don't have time to read through everything already posted. I think I've made it clear how I feel about unions .... however ....

My question, was the company [STRIKE]cooking[/STRIKE] baking more than twinkies? ... perhaps they were cooking the books? I don't understand how a company or (government) can "owe" a pension fund money? Weren't they meeting their obligations all along? The workers certainly were seeing their pension obligations coming out of their checks.

What about the big union bosses? How could they not stay on top of the status of their pension fund? Was someone somewhere greasing their palms too? What about the union members? How could they elect such irresponsible and flawed leadership that would allow their pension fund to be jeopardized?

Same thing good 'ole Uncle Sammy does with Social Security and has since it started. Does any one really believe that there is an actual account that all that FICA tax from out checks goes into. Bah, it goes to the general fund and always has.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Meh, RTW is still patently retarded & anti-freedom. If a corporation is so stupid as to let a union run their company, they deserve to be Darwin'd. Buy some Nutty Bars & relax guys.

 

[hooky]

GM hasn't paid back the bailout money, just the loan. And they did that with money from .gov in what was supposed to be a working capital account. We're taking a bath on the entire bailout.

GM's Phony Bailout Payback - Reason Magazine

 

[CarmelHP]

If you look at it logically then it is nothing more than stereotyping and a form of blind racism.

Apparently belonging to a union is non an immutable characteristic or a "race." Unbelievably hyperbolic hysteria. There is no argument too low for the union shills to stoop.